T-Bone

roger wilco and please be advised Grease Spot One also has a full complement of bull$hit-seeking missiles

authorization to deploy Stealth Bomber Grease Spot One on TWI

buyer beware...it's a....it's a ......cook book ! (no wait that was on Twilight Zone....I think it's a book about a crook...a crook's book....yeah that's the ticket) you have a wonderful screen name, Papertrained !

i think in general TWI has been running on automatic pilot for a long time...you automatically go to fellowships at the scheduled time....automatically give them your money ...blah, blah, blah, blah....automatically, of course

great tune, HG-30! love that haunting sax ! another tune from that year (1978) by one of my wife's favorites - Warren Zevon (in YouTube below he's doing it live in '82) artist's poetic license to change his own words - werewolves of New Joisey

(((((((Skyrider))))))) my heart goes out to you man! what an agonizing experience...just reading about your abduction / deprogramming attempt is upsetting...you truly are a strong, resilient, and brave soul!

Jason Bourne-esque is a very apt description of what we experienced and your link to Manipulation of One’s Consent thread fits in so well. Some things came to mind. In the first movie Bourne suffered amnesia after being shot and falling into the sea. Whereas, from vp and other leadership we were encouraged to forget our old way of life. Part of his recovery was remembering / realizing how the Treadstone program changed him – indoctrinated him to another way of life. As the Bourne story unfolds Jason also realizes he himself consented to become this other person. Yes there were those above him who took advantage of his patriotism – his altruistic or idealistic tendencies; but Jason Bourne does not put all the blame on others. I think that is a healthy way to handle the issues I’ve found in my head. If you don’t do that – it’s only addressing one part of a compound problem....Yeah vp lied like it was going out of style – but I happened to believe whatever he said was true! Sometimes disentangling oneself from a cult can be a very tedious mental exercise as you deconstruct the mindset. Skyrider thanks for all the insight and experiences you’ve shared…I know revisiting some stuff can be painful…makes me think of when I was in construction – the pain and discomfort of splinters. They hurt like hell and you’re afraid to mess with them cuz it will hurt some more but if you leave them in there they’ll fester and get worse. It’s best to remove them. I used to carry tweezers and even needle nose pliers in my tool pouch.

Welcome to Grease Spot HigherGround30 ! Thanks for sharing your story. So funny you meeting someone who was in children of god cult – I find sometimes I can better process (whatever that means ) an experience I’ve had when I check out how someone else is handling their own…maybe it’s just healing when we really connect with others – like on Grease Spot – not like the homogenized alternate world of cults. Hopefully – down the road there may be some “hello again” with friends and families – and regrets over not saying proper goodbyes will fade away. A very strange thing happened to me the other day. My wife and I were looking over our DNA results from one of those ancestry services (verified none of my ancestors were from Krypton) and an old high school friend called. I turned off so many of my friends being the witnessing zealot that I was back then. He asked me if I was still in that “Christian thing”. I said “hell no” and told him I realized it was a cult and got out. I’m hoping he’ll share that with some of our old group of friends…we talked for over an hour and it was so sweet! And it meant a lot that he looked me up and he called me. Is that your coffee mug? – bring it over here and I’ll get you a refill

Yup – ditto on what OutandAbout said! TWI’s tyrannical efforts – and especially the contradictory / insane / self-serving / bull$hit laden ferocious manner of leadership (like the bribery letter compared to gifts for lcm) revealed in your posts are an ugly wonder to behold. For some reason an historical fiction book popped into my head – I had to read it in school eons ago – The Octopus: A Story of California…which Amazon describes as: “This is a turn-of-the-century epic of California wheat farmers struggling against the rapacity of the Pacific and Southwestern Railroad, which will stop at nothing to extend its domination.” The Octopus book on Amazon Anyway – keep it up Skyrider – this is great stuff !!!

you guys are right....sorry about the detour down dispensational lane...my bad peace to everyone...and best wishes for the holidays and the new year!

I agree Waysider - vp’s (and other dispensationalists) use of addressed to you vs for your learning – seems to be something deliberately fabricated rather than a natural sense of what’s written – and as such it comes across as something artificial or unrealistic (and conveniently favoring vp’s licentious agenda – more on that later). Dispensationalism ignores context and even the big picture – the whole enchilada – the entire Bible – uhm…..Genesis to Revelation. I think it’s futile to argue with a dispensationalist since their means of interpretation is flawed; a dispensationalist’s interpretation usually depends on isolated passages that only apply at certain times and if that’s not slippery enough for ya, they will have no qualms ruling out any verse or verses that disagree with their position simply on the grounds that it does not apply. Waysider also mentioned the canon of the Bible – maybe that’s another issue with dispensationalism; Canon is from the Greek word kanon and means a rule or measuring stick; A canonical book is one that measures up to the standard of Holy Scripture – therefore the canon of Scripture refers to the books that are considered to be the authoritative Word of God. It seems to me that the malleable measuring stick of dispensationalists tends to selectively invalidate the authority of the Word of God when and where it suits them. the canon of Scripture JayDee, love your post – it made me think of something else - I think most Christians have a favorite book or books in the Bible; I have several favorites – one of which is the gospel of John. Really, when it comes to anything Jesus said in any of the gospels I tend to consider that the standard for simple goof-proof Christianity; I mean verses like Luke 6:46 why do you call me Lord, Lord and do not do what I say? – how much simpler can it get?!?! Oddly enough, vp used a gospel verse (John 10:10) as the hook for his Power For Abundant Living class –a class with a materialistic appeal - -and the class promoted a cheap grace that does not require repentance…and that brings me back to something I mentioned above. vp’s licentious agenda: Consider carefully the words of Jesus Christ: Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The experts in the law and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore pay attention to what they tell you and do it. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they teach. 4 They tie up heavy loads, hard to carry, and put them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing even to lift a finger to move them. Matthew 23: 1-4 New English Translation. Teachmevp, I do not know what degree of involvement you have had with The Way International if any at all (forgive me if you shared this elsewhere and I haven’t read it) and how much stock you put in the teachings of victor paul wierwille. But for the sake of brevity I’ll get to the point. From what I gather of the numerous threads you’ve started – it seems to me you are not aware of vp’s utter hypocrisy that knew no bounds! The public persona of vp had a nice Christian veneer to it – but like Jekyll and Hyde - his dark side…known to staff and way corps may be along the lines of what Jesus was talking about in Matthew 23. And let’s not oversimplify the issues with vp and his teachings – it’s not that he taught one thing and did something else – it goes much deeper than that…insidiously deeper than all that…the philosophy behind his teachings is the problem…it was there at the beginning in PFAL…laying the groundwork for a manipulative and abusive ministry: The Subtle Thread which runs throughout PFAL If you like to think of him as the man chosen by God to teach us “the word”, founder of a biblical research, teaching and fellowship ministry, concerned with the accuracy and integrity of “the word” – then you might want to check out the book Undertow, the author, Charlene, was in the way corps (vp’s leadership training program) and in vp’s research department – you will get an eye-opening excursion through the inner workings of his ministry and the pressure he exerted on all NOT to contradict anything he taught. Undertow If you don’t think I was serious about how vp twisted dispensationalism into a perverted cheap grace then you may want to check out Losing the Way, the author, Kristen, was sexually molested by vp - and she relates the scripture twisting he’d do to try to make it all seem ok – verses like unto the pure all things are pure – ugh! the guy was a pig…sick, evil, unconscionable pig! Kristen was also in the way corps – vp’s leadership training program. Losing the Way If you were in the way and never heard of any of this stuff – it’s probably because of the lockbox – it’s mentioned in the two books above and in another book The Cult That Snapped…. The lockbox was a nifty little psychological device vp invented to keep his sexual predations secret. The author, Karl, was also in the way corps – vp’s leadership training program. The Cult That Snapped If you feel any of the above info is upsetting, unbelievable or just plain shocking news it may be that you spend some much time in the Doctrinal forum and ignore the About the Way forum. If you don’t care to read any of the books I’ve listed then at least check out the About the Way forum – it’s free! You might get a clearer picture of what vp was all about from the stories of folks that went through his training program and worked alongside him. I also was in the way corps program and have shared about vp’s sedative to the conscience TWI's Sedative to the Conscience sorry for this long post….sometimes I just have to rant when I hear preaching based on vp’s extra-strength toxicity. Please don’t take it personal.

I beg to differ – sorry to rain on your “sensational parade” – if you’re referring to when the Bible was completed and NOT to the esoteric philosophical nonsense of vp’s “the word” - you might want to look into the probable dates of when the New Testament documents were written…there’s Hebrews, James, books of Peter, epistles of John, Jude, and Revelation that according to most scholars were written after Paul’s letters. dating when the books of the Bible were written

I have a different take on that; Yes, he always had great concern for Israel but he also knew he was an apostle to the Gentiles (Galatians 2:8); As a case in point, perhaps a sort of convergence of goals may be seen in Paul’s mission to Jerusalem. I think Paul was committed to completing this critical relief mission - delivering donations from the Gentile churches to the poor in the Jerusalem church. It would mean a lot to strengthening unity in the church as a whole – the Gentile churches helping out the Jerusalem church. I could be wrong but I really don’t think he had the “wrong goals” since in this particular case he said his mission to Jerusalem was part of the ministry he received from the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:24), and he was purposed in the spirit to go there (Acts 19:21) and even bound in the spirit on his way (Acts 20:22). Perhaps another way to look at the warnings he received before going there was that it was God’s way of giving him a heads-up so he wouldn’t get blindsided. Contrary to how “old Doc” taught it in PFAL, I believe the account of Paul going to Jerusalem shows his courage and commitment to see his God-given mission through no matter what the cost was to him personally – that must have been very inspirational and motivating to other Christians. That’s why I think he earned the right to pen such bold and challenging epistles – having the gravitas…the battlefield experience behind his voice…not like some armchair warrior…speaking of which - like I said I think “old Doc” got that…and a whole lot of other things wrong too.

Thanks Chockfull and ditto for me... and not to leave out anyone I also wish you all Happy Festivus

I would think even an up-and-coming tyrant must go through a courtship phase with the minions

Potato, I hear you on all that! I’m glad you’re doing well. Years ago I broke my left hand in a truck rollover accident. Therapy and time does help the healing process. I am right handed but now my left hand is the stronger of the two. My wife will hand me a jar to open and now I’ll use my left hand super-grip to do it. They say whatever doesn’t kill you will make you stronger. Perhaps there’s something to that. I think it’s almost like a shock therapy to atrophied critical thinking “muscles” when we leave a cult and start living a normal life. Maybe that’s the “good” thing about mental scars in that they’re the toughest part of us or something like that…I am not as gullible as I used to be and definitely more thick-skinned around manipulative folks.

I always read with great interest your posts, Skyrider and think you have a great book on your hands! You’ve got a knack for very organized analysis along with some thought-provoking insight too….for now I’m going to copy a bunch of detailed posts on various threads from you, Don’t Worry, Chockfull and others - and not to forget all the timeline stuff WordWolf has done and is still putting more together – and save them in a folder on my PC – you know it’s sort of a healing thing…maybe a sense of satisfaction from being able to make sense of what happened in my cult-daze....anyway… I love your jumping off of a moving train analogy – that is certainly an apt description of the feelings I had. Having so much invested in The Oblivion Express – it’s a wonder any of us got off of it! There’s so many action-movies that have a heart-pounding fight scene on a moving train and I put leaving TWI right up there with the best of them! Embroiled in the tentacles of the TWI mindset…the mental battle of emotions…logic surfacing to engage “ministry-brain”…this thing called “the self” flailing about in desperation to survive…such a confusing internal struggle my wife and I both had – while at the same time we are slowly inching our way closer and closer to some nondescript jump-off point. You asked “how will life change?”. And that’s a VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION! Before I could actually jump I had to break free from perhaps the strongest tentacle – the fear of leaving “god’s ministry”. I can’t count how many times a teaching by vp about Judas walking out and it was night (John 13:30) would pop up in my head. It’s been so long I can’t remember vp’s exact words but something like Where you gonna go?...The only alternative to the ministry that taught you the word is oblivion…. Well, the shoe is on the other foot now. That old shyster vp…he swapped the labels – we were on The Oblivion Express…I’m sure glad we jumped off that crazy train.

Some great points, Waysider….your post got me to reflect on my views before, during and after TWI…Before TWI I was into the arts (playing in bands and pursuing an education in fine arts) – late 60s early 70s…and I used to have a live and let live philosophy – and perhaps that was the prevailing attitude with most of the folks I hung out with. I’m not a social scene expert but people into the arts were somewhat of a counterculture – we did our own thing and it was beautiful...."It's your thing do what ya wanna do...I can't tell ya who to sock it to..." I don’t remember a big focus on sexual orientation back then – it was not a prominent issue back then - and besides I had my religious environment – Catholic grammar, high school and college…so you have that whole sexual repression thing going on anyway (…funny how both the Catholic church and TWI have had problems with sexual predators). i think that stayed with me – even today I still think they ought to get all that sex stuff off the big screen and put it back in the home where it belongs – I’m here all week folks. ..... Seriously, what did I find so interesting about folks I hung out with? it was simply whatever was at the center of their life – be it drumming, painting, writing, philosophizing, and how that is what made them happy…fulfilled or something. But then I get in TWI and lo and behold – I’m railroaded into getting on whatever bandwagon they had going at the time. Tolerance is NOT one of the manifestations of the TWI spirit. Keep in mind I am the Rob Petrie type – you can get me to do some things – but if it goes against my nature I do it while dragging my feet. Man, I turned off a lot of my friends as I pushed PFAL – with the old sales pitch this will improve your relationship with god or it will help you get better at what you do…some bull$hit like that…fast forward to being in the corps program – I remember some rant by LCM over taking a stand against homosexuality – and it was revolutionary (I say that sarcastically) – it was something along the lines of even being united with other denominations against homosexuals – who cares if they believe in the Trinity, we can work on that later… chuckle, chuckle….TWI does not tolerate differences very well. So now – a lot of years since I left TWI – I’m back to the live and let live philosophy…and life is simple again…now I’m more concerned about my immediate world than what’s going on “out there”…it took me a long time to realize how hypocritical I was in the Way. I used to put on “Twig face” and was nice to everyone in the Way – yet being such an azzhole to my wife and kids at home. Talk about a relationship that needs improving! We’ve be at it for 40 years now – I’m still crazy about Tonto – and I’m thankful she puts up with me…I work on trying to be less of an azzhole on a regular basis now…I started out small - just while on vacations, mother’s day, our anniversary, her birthday…but now I try to dial down my azzhole-ness throughout the week….it’s just a walk, people.

yeah whitewashing it alright...paint the zebra white...that covers the stripes....and voila you have a white horse!

Wow, I love that Don’t Worry ! I dig Adam’s voice/accent and having just the acoustic bass (with a little percussion on the bass body too). I really enjoyed that. Here’s another version by Morgan James – hope you enjoy it

I’ve put that Scientology expose on my watch list/Amazon Fire Stick. After reading several books on Scientology and then Undertow I think I need a little break from cult stuff – maybe I should watch a sci-fi movie like Battlefield Earth to get my mind off of all this . Battlefield Earth Chockfull, you really got me thinking about a few things...Scientology like any cult does have its own jargon – “suppressive, auditing, clear”…but way-world’s special vocabulary often sounded very biblical to me - - it appeared innocuous…maybe that functioned like an additional layer of concealment. Buying into vp’s accuracy-and-integrity-of-the-word-bull-$hit allowed him to write an alternate lexicon in my head. To break free of TWI as well as being mission critical to the revival of your gray matter it is important that you see the shape-shifting (or is that $hit-shaping?) ability of way-jargon. Remember vp’s noble and courageous sounding statement on standing up for the truth “when it comes to the word, I have no friends”…I now understand that to mean “if you don’t agree with my interpretation of the bible you can just take a hike.” I think one of the biggest challenges for a person leaving TWI is getting past the loaded language that reinforces a certain mindset and thwarts critical thinking. Grease Spot is a good antidote – you listen to other viewpoints – and sometimes step back and re-analyze your own perspective – maybe even realize you have a bias or two... or three. And that’s ok – I believe part of developing critical thinking skills is being aware of your own bias.

There’s something so flagrantly hypocritical about a big-mouth preacher/ big-time adulterer persecuting homosexuals….Well….let’s just ignore the tons of bible verses that condemn adultery by saying it means spiritual adultery. So the few bible verses about homosexuality must be referring to spiritual homosexuality…..hmmmmm… spiritual attraction or spiritual behavior with someone of the same gender….. yikes !!!! vp and LCM were…. ….boyfriends!

thanks for the links, Chockfull I found something else interesting in the opening corps night notes: “…The spirit realm has so learned and mastered Dr. Wierwille's class that it uses it against us…” Do you realize what this means?!?! Devil spirits did not have to pay for the class nor was there a minimum number of devil spirits requirement to put a class together.

We saw Lyle Lovett and His Large Band back in 2010...2011...uhm somewhere back then - and Sam was with him...in a suit too! Great show !!!!!

Yeah Don’t Worry, I don’t know the first thing about vocalists but something about KD Lang – maybe it’s her range especially the low end that reminds me of Adele. Both are great vocalists…which reminds me - I love to watch the fun Adele has with James Corden in carpool karaoke: I got turned onto the James Gang by a drummer I use to jam with – and since he knew what a bass-aholic I was, the first tune he played for me was Funk #48 (on the LP it precedes Bluebird); I actually prefer it over the Funk #49 you posted though both are good tunes - #48 has one of the thickest and growly bass tones I’ve ever heard (Mel Schacher – bass player for Grand Funk RR has a similar sound) – it has that announce-your-presence-with-authority feel to it; my friend said something like “that bass just so dominates over the guitar, drums and vocals”…I said “there’s other instruments on that tune?” Don’t Worry reminisced in an earlier post of folks exchanging tunes for a great pastime. That made me think of the wonderful interaction when two music lovers get married. Tonto turned me on to so many great singers/song writers/musicians….one of our fondest early memories of musical blending was when I rigged up an attenuating patch cord to connect her piece-of-furniture-stereo-console-with-turntable to a TEAC cassette recorder I bought at a garage sale; we made a compilation of tunes by taking turns playing a song in response to each other’s selection…it was a one-of-a-kind-personal-playlist-for-two cassette tape – too bad all I had was an 8 track tape player in my van Anyway…. speaking of great music you find thru a friend - Tonto got me into Lyle Lovett – so Dave, this clip is for you – it’s Sam Bush playing with Lyle…