OperaBuff

The B. G. Leonard Ministry is still going. He passed over the bar, or tripped over the bar, or sat in a bar and fell asleep, or whatever it is they say, but his widow Evelyn and a former TWI guy named Mark Machado lead it today. I've briefly talked with both of them over the phone, and they seem like lovely people. You can dial into their Sunday Morning Service held at 10:30 CT and listen on your phone. Keep your cell phone plugged in and put it on speaker; the Sunday I listened it was a long service). It's key to look back at the beginnings of TWI like this. It's telling and helpful to see how it all began. Does anyone know who the people were who took the second Leonard class with VP? That would be interesting to know.

Not in my recent experience, no. And I've got a fresh and deep scar on my heart to prove it.

It would be interesting to know if sexual predation among TWI followers is more common or less common than the national average. My hunch is that it would be more common because, as you know, they live under unassailable grace and they are God's best and their sheeeaat doesn't stink. Until someone at the top of the TWI pyramid tells them differently, of course.

I've noticed this for some time now. Audio at the link. I've also noticed how some teenage girls have a speech habit of talking in a very low, very fast, almost unintelligible speech pattern that to my ear is part words, part clicking sounds coming through pouty lips. Yet it's perfectly understandable to another teenage girl, they carry on entire conversations like that. Not sure what that's called but I'm finding it to be annoying. http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2011/12/vocal-fry-creeping-into-us-speec.html?ref=hp

This cowboy's on his own.

where did you learn to chase ditties, ham?

I've recently had occasion to observe yet again the "TWI spiritual superiority complex" in action. That's the best name I can come up with to describe the utter disdain for all beliefs, Christian and non-Christian alike, that fall short of the glory of TWI beliefs; a disdain that was psychologically engrained into us by TWI. Friends, this complex is an ugly thing to behold. It's even uglier to behold when it comes at you. So that's my contribution to this thread - to point out the utter disdain for others that binds TWI together today as they claim to occupy the spiritual and moral high ground. It's too easy to point out TWI's moral failings and the yawning chasm between them and any moral high ground; a casual observer need only glance at the many US court cases, the many out-of-court settlements, and the books and articles written by victims of sexual abuse at the hands of TWI leadership over the decades. To point out their spiritual failings, the same casual observer need ask only one question: Where is the love that Christ taught us to have for each other?

Owning your own book publishing house comes in handy. Q: What is difficult about publicly acknowledging content changes in a new edition of a research book? A: Nothing. It's done all the time, and legitimate book publishing houses insist upon such an acknowledgement. There's no disgrace or shame in making changes to a piece of research. It happens. But turn a light on when you do, so your readers are not in the dark.

Just so I'm clear in my own mind, and to save me the trouble of locating these two printings, was there a footnote about the definition change in the 2nd printing, or a list of errata, or an introductory note, or some acknowledgement of the change? I'm not sure which would have been appropriate, I'm not a writer or publisher, but it would seem to me that something would be needed.

Perhaps so. Or, who knows, it may have been an interesting debate. My point is that there was no way he would ever have agreed to do it. The risks were simply too great to take. He couldn't risk losing stature in his keedz's eyes. Not with all that money rolling in. Not to mention the free tang.

Great thread for discussion. Generally speaking, isn't this how it works: take position A, whatever the topic or belief may be, and then bend all opposing positions to your advantage. Play all games, run all debates, lead all discussions according to the rules you choose. Remember how VPW would rail from his lecturrn sometimes on how he would be willing to debate any leadership from RC or Baptist or any other church, but that such leaders should "leave my keedz alone"? Did he ever actually participate in such a debate though? Of course not; he needed them to remain as a distant, threatening, bendable target.

Easy. First, they force you to stop giving them your hard-earned money, and then they condemn you to an eventual death. Of course, after they condemn you to an eventual death, if your heart says to keep sending them your hard-earned money, by all means do so. Who knows, maybe they will have a change of heart, see the error of their decision, and decide to not condemn you to an eventual death. Really, Waysider, you need to start paying attention.. Edited to add: Oh, that reminds me. In the interest of biblical accuracy, I feel compelled to point out something. Do any of y'all remember the Rev Craig Martindale, and how he stated that people would become a grease spot before midnight for daring to leave TWI? Well, Rev Martindale erred in that statement because he didn't allow for the possibility that Christ could return before midnight, thereby making it impossible to become a grease spot because we would all have been gathered together in the clouds. By failing to mention that, the Rev Martindale deleted from the Word of God.

I've never found myself mad at God, but plenty of times I feel stupid about who He is and what He does. I frequently ponder the big "What's it all about?" question and, believe it or not, sometimes I think I catch a teeny tiny glimpse of an answer. It has to do with eternity, not this life of sorrows.

WordWolf, that's a great summation, thank you. It's like a Cliff Notes version of the TWI self-implosion. My mind is now clearer on how it all progressed thru the 80s and 90s. Thank you.

TWI ordinations, like those in most religious Christian churches, give men the opportunity to wear flouncy gowns for each other in public. Gift ministries are just that. A gift, and a ministry. God apparently forgot to tell Paul about the gowns.

Yes. We were too important a spiritual force in the world to be bogged down by quaint and lawful notions. Adultery is bad? Don't sweat it, just don't feel guilty about doing it. Sexual seduction of younger members is bad? Don't sweat it, just don't feel guilty about doing it. Forgive yourself, and keep moving. I remember being taught that God is a God of covering, and He would cover for you regarding adultery, rape, and all its attendant damages. Well, the reality of TWI's ongoing disintegration is proving that that teaching is a lie, when the sin and misconduct is deliberate and chronic. Someday, maybe TWI will wake up and realize the criticisms being leveled against them are God's own truth.

I've long had zero patience, zero concern, zero toleration for child molesters. There was a time when such cases never made it to court, having been handled in silence by the men in the victim's family long before. Lawyers and judges have a hard time trying a corpse. In the Penn State case, it would seem there were no real men to be found. The thing I will never be able to blot from my mind is that young boy in the shower being raped by Coach Sandusky, and then another man walks into the shower area and sees the rape in progress. Both the boy and the coach saw the man, and both knew he had seen what was happening. But the man did nothing to stop it, he just turned and walked out. I will never understand that man. But the thing that will remain forever with me is what that little boy must have thought. For a moment that boy must have thought his savior had arrived. But no. His savior abandoned him, leaving him in the clutches of a monster. That little boy's heartbreak at that moment must have been even more painful than the rape.

Naten, you are welcome to come to our fellowship. We don't belong to TWI or any other outfit except God's family. We get together and share some Word and sing some songs and love on each other. Er,... by that I mean we love on each other in a good, healthy, clean way. (Except that one time, I could swear that old lady slipped me some tongue when we kissed hello. Maybe she just had a caraway seed stuck in her dentures?) But we don't love on each other the new Way way that involves adultery and affairs and abortions and such. And we won't charge you for the classes. I promise there will be none of this: HOT stuff!! Coming at ya!! http://youtu.be/GfAglGilQBQ

What's that old line? Oh yes: His karma ran over his dogma. And isn't the etymology of the word 'blackmail' fascinating? Blackmail - the payment of money exacted by means of intimidation. The word is variously derived from the tribute paid by English and Scottish border dwellers to certain robbers in return for immunity from further raids and other harassments. This tribute was paid in goods or labour, in Latin reditus nigri "blackmail". The opposite is blanche firmes or reditus albi "white rent" denoting payment by silver. Alternatively, McKay derives it from two Scottish Gaelic words: blathaich "to protect" and mal "tribute, payment". He notes that the practice was common in the Highlands of Scotland as well as the Borders. (from Wiktionary)

LCM heard of someone with 1000 different sex partners a year? Well, it's good to have a goal. (Helpful hint for you bro: if you close your eyes and use your left hand instead of your right, it sorta feels like someone else. I read that in a book.)

You can listen to Oral Roberts delivering his teaching called "The Fourth Man" here: http://earstohear.net/Kingdom/The%20Fourth%20Man_1.mp3 And a book by book listing of who Jesus Christ is in the Bible: http://earstohear.net/Kingdom/fourthman.html "The Red Thread" was always one of my most favorite VPW teachings. It's on STS tape number 904, recorded in March 1978. Until I read this thread, I had no idea he stole it from Oral Roberts. P.S. STS tape number 763, titled "Our God Is Able" contains much of this Oral Roberts teaching as well. sheeesh.

Maybe there's a reason why one of the 15 songs of degrees in the book of Psalms would be invoked, I dunno. Why the opening stanza of a song that celebrated the astonishing assembly of all 12 tribes of Israel to celebrate the Passover at Jerusalem during the reign of King David would be linked to an image of blue and green people, jumping up and down on a Bible opened to the book of Ephesians while the Bible is suspended perilously over a pool of water..., well,... it is for minds far greater than mine to decipher. Apparently, the spiritual brain trust in the cornfield figured it out. Or maybe it came from the scholars on faculty of the Way College of Emporia. Oh wait...

I feel compelled to say, in the interest of Biblical accuracy, that the phrase 'dwelling together in the Lord' does not appear in the church epistles. TWI HQ has added to the Word of God again.

Seeing that pregnant guppy sign almost made me nostalgic for the place. Almost. I don't quite get that rainbow-y sign though. Is it Dorothy's yellow brick road to the Wizard of Oz on the bottom? Leading upwards toward a rainbow that's oddly dripping over a shielded but flattened earth with a radiant white dove stuck over Alaska? If so, it's Way perfect. I feel compelled to point out, in the interest of Biblical accuracy, that according to the Gospel records, when the heavens parted asunder and the spirit of God descended like a dove upon Jesus Christ, it does not say that the dove was radiating or even shining. TWI HQ has added to the Word of God. There was a time when TWI would rail against such a thing. My how times have changed.

OK, OK, stop begging!! Here's some opera. In this clip from 1975, the great Spanish soprano Montserrat Caballe absolutely nails the aria "Signore ascolta" from Puccini's opera Turandot. Don't try this at home... and for now, don't worry about what the lyrics mean. Just enjoy the sounds coming from this woman's throat. http://youtu.be/6B3HCV5n6qo