OperaBuff

Until today, I hadn't looked at this Whiteside book in decades. I just noticed that the dust jacket has "living with love" printed in the title, but the book itself has "living in love" as the title, printed on the front board and within. I should demand my money back for the misprint. (actually, as it happens, i see my old wow coordinator's name written on the front flyleaf, apparently i wound up with his book somehow, think he wants it back? i'm not going to search him out for fear he'll wag his way wow wiener at me again...)

Good for you, Nate. Sounds like your wife is a lucky lady, to have you around trying to help like this. In the years after I left TWI, my interests turned to classic literature. For reasons I still can't quite explain, I started reading the Russian greats, perhaps because their relentless morbidity matched my mood at the time. Death and sadness and the bleak human condition consoled me. Turgenev in particular provided great solace, I practically inhaled his novel Fathers and Sons. It's difficult for me to read a book someone gives me unless I already have a desire to read it. So just giving a book out of the blue may be a waste of your time. You might do better by listening to the person talk, see if they let slip a clue about their interests, and then get them reading something, anything, that will engage their interests constructively. I too have a copy of Elena Whiteside's The Way Living with Love, and I'm surprised to learn in this thread that TWI today doesn't want their people to read it anymore. Why, for heaven's sake? Elena plants her journalistic lips firmly on VP's backside and then wrote the entire book from that perspective. What on earth could be considered dangerous about that to TWI today? I'm looking at the back dust jacket flap, where they printed a brief bio of Whiteside. She was born in the former USSR. Interesting. She wrote Living with Love at approximately the fifth-grader level; looking at it now, it's all quite childish.

:offtopic: I'd like to see Walter Cummins, do you happen to know his speaking schedule? I receive his quarterly newsletters, but haven't seen him publish a speaking or teaching schedule. Or are you going to visit him one on one, maybe that's what you meant... :offtopic:

Incremental indoctrination is very much how things were done. Reminds me of the old story about the frog in a pot of water: turn up the heat in slow, imperceptible increments and the frog will learn too late that he's being cooked alive. Remember back for a moment to your initial interest in and attraction to The Way International. Now, fast-forward to how you were doing at the end of your involvement and ask yourself the question, If this is what they had offered me at the beginning of my involvement, would I have wanted it? Most of us would say not just no, but hayull no.

Hey, lighten up. There's at least one Way guy trying to break free from the herd mentality. He's got a great big organ that he likes to play with in public. He named his organ Truth. He didn't name it The Mighty Wierwille, so that's something, right? Wanna see? Starts around the 35 second mark. http://youtu.be/GfAglGilQBQ The other guy in the video named his great big organ The Present. A name which, oh I dunno, Donna and Rozilla must have sat up nights over many bottles of wine trying to think of what to *hiccup* name that man's *hiccup* big organ *hiccup*

This brings to mind the Conybeare and Howson translation of I Thessalonians, which I recently read for the first time. It's magnificent. I Thessalonians 4: 9-12 "Concerning brotherly love it is needless that I should write to you; for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another; as you show by your deeds towards all the brethren throughout the whole of Macedonia. I exhort you only, brethren, to abound still more. Seek peaceful quietness, and give yourselves to the concerns of your private life; let this be your ambition. Work with your own hands (as I commanded you), for your own support; that the seemly order of your lives may be manifest to those without the church, and that you may need no help from others." On the subject of our love for each other as Christian brothers and sisters, being encouraged by God to seek peaceful quietness. Being encouraged to give ourselves to the concerns of our private lives, to let this be our ambition. How profoundly and powerfully true this is. And how funny it is to know this, and then see that it is the exact opposite of the experiences so many have had with The Way International, which wanted absolute control over its followers' private lives and concerns.

Drugs.

Congratulations on making the lifestyle change, OnionEater! That's great. I'm right with you, having lost 52 lbs in the past two years or so. My blood pressure had been sky high (214/108) at my peak weight, which is when I said enough. Now, I've got another 12 to go, then I'll be at my goal. I started by following the Weight Watchers program, then once I got the hang of it I discontinued my monthly membership and just followed the plan on my own. Like you say, it's really not hard once you get started. For me it was seeing those initial pounds come off, then it became a weekly contest I play against myself, how much can I lose this week vs last week. Some weeks are better than others, which is to be expected. I feel a LOT better now than I did 52 pounds ago, that's for sure, and my BP is normal again.

Does TWI provide the ugly clothing for their Lawrence Welk Singers & Dancers, or do they have to buy it themselves? http://youtu.be/GfAglGilQBQ That cute guy in the middle is soooo friggin sexy!! I don't like his tie, but I sure do like where it's pointing. OH NOES!! Who said that? I never said that. But, seriously, VP, I don't like the color of his tie. Why would you bequeath a ministry to us that allowed its sexy male dancer to wear a tie that color, VP? Why? Was it something we said? Something we did? Something we didn't say? Something we didn't do? Because, really, VP, as a group, we did it all for you. Yes, I mean we did it all. *wink wink* Just for you. *kiss kiss* So, seriously now, thanks for leaving us a ministry that has a guy this hot in it, that means a lot. He's really, really cute which means the ministry must be on the ball, since a hot guy like that is part of it. Come to think of it, Craig was a hottie too when he was young, before he let himself go to seed. Seed! haha, I didn't mean to say that out loud. Someone might get the wrong idea, think of the wrong kind of seed, you know. Man seed!! OMG, who said that? I never said that. No, seriously now, VP, thanks for the hotties over the years. Was it really true that Craig could crack a walnut between his thighs when he was young? Did he ever do that for you, show you that trick? Between his young, luscious thighs? Just wondering. OK, enough kidding around. Seriously now, thanks for the collective memories, VP. And thanks for all the back rubs. And thanks for the encouragement you showed to us, your kids. We will never forget it. As you can see.

I was long gone when they came out with this particular piece of inanity, but I imagine it has to do with keeping their members focused on growing the TWI bank accounts first, ahead of anything else. God would never talk to you directly about your own financial affairs, you see; God talks to TWI first and then they relay the info to you. Er, except that TWI has long taught that God always first talks to you about you. But, through an extra special set of highly spiritual circumstances, TWI got God to talk to them first about your money.

Off topic, but only a little: Once you claim to have heard God Almighty audibly tell you that He will teach you the Word, why even bother to list your academic achievements? Doesn't having the creator of the heavens and earth as your personal mentor trump the need to explain the source of your smarts?

I'll go to the cave with you, socks. Faith was one of the words I never understood growing up in the Lutheran Church. It all seemed so vague and dodgy to me. What was it to have faith, really? I'd imagined it to be some combination of trust, blind allegiance, acceptance of a mysterious inexplicable unknown, with a silent grunt thrown in for good measure. Or something like that. When I learned in TWI about pistis and that it could usually be translated as believing instead of faith, it was a great moment for me. Today, I just translate it as believing in each occurrence, and my life is simpler; I can wrap my mind around the idea that on Pentecost, God gave His sons and daughters the potential ability to believe God just as Jesus Christ believed God, powerfully and perfectly. This makes sense to me, and so I go with it. Believing is unquestioned acceptance. For example: This morning I went to Lowes. I walked into the store looking for masking tape, and had no idea where it would be. So I asked the greeter at the door. He immediately told me the aisle number and where I would find it, and I said thank you and turned and walked there. There was no doubt in my mind but that he had told me the truth, so I just went where he said to go. I believed him. And I just turned and did what he said to do. I acted upon my believing without a nanosecond of hesitation. That's what believing is.

Maybe that's how Chris Geer wormed his way into the upper echelon. He could simultaneously park a vehicle and avoid spiritual calamity. Hopefully Craig isn't driving a forklift at his Home Depot job.

Haha, the weather guessers are ever helpful, what with all their fancy computer models and whiz-bang software. Still, nothing satisfies me more than seeing the inevitable live action news mini-cam crew standing outside next to some seawall during a hurricane to demonstrate to the world that, yep, it's really, really, really windy outside and raining like a beeyotch!

I'm attaching a scan of a color postcard of TWI HQ that was in my "Welcome, Sucker" packet that I received (dechomai) during my first visit in 1975. Not sure when the overhead photo was taken, but it hopefully provides a visual of DWBH's nifty description of the HQ buildings and layout at that time. OK, stand back, I'm gonna lambano it now.

If you care some, then it's possible to care less. If you care not at all, then it's not possible to care any less. So the expression is 'I could not care less.' After what you were put through, you can say it any way you want. Signed, OperaBuff Boy Etymologist

Bumped. Is this TWI "mentor" still in jail? Does anyone know? Does anyone know what ever happened to the case in Pennsylvania?

Remember the children's game, Simon Says? TWI was much like that. If Simon didn't say it, it didn't mean jack. But if Simon said jump, everybody had to jump.

OMG!! Last night I was in Dayton attending a high school dance recital, and wouldn't ya know Craig Martindale was there?!! YES!! He stars in a brand new dance production, which he choreographed himself. He dedicated last night's performance to "my Rosie pooh, in my favorite farmville *wink wink* You know who you are, Rosie girl!" Well, it was spectacular entertainment. Lucky for you, I captured it all on my cell phone camera! Ready?

TWI leadership today seems content to sit around on their farm and take turns polishing their apple. The Amish are an industrious and productive people, producing some of the finest handcrafted furniture (and many other products) in the country. That's one difference. When you talk to the Amish, they are very open and forthright and honest and will happily tell you what they believe, and why. No secret agendas. That's another difference. I've lived near an Amish community, and I still like and respect the Amish people I've met over the years. There's another difference.

As a twig leader, my only real concern was the back and forth between the members of my twig and me, just enjoying each other's company. Sharing our lives, learning together, helping each other with the day to day stuff. But anytime I attended a coordinators' meeting with the branch leader, the meeting was a rigid lecture, some inappropriate snarks, nosy questions about me and my twig members, and a reminder to keep those abundant sharing envelopes coming. I always left those meetings feeling like crap. That right there should have told me something was rotten in Denmark, but I couldn't see it at the time. Maybe that was more like a peek behind their false front than an example of a leadership double standard. I'm speaking of how it was in the mid 1970s, but it was likely similar (or worse) later on.

As long as your holy spirit dove pin in your lapel was pointed towards Mecca (was that the rule? i think that was it, but i'm getting old and my memory isn't 100% anymore) and your shoes were polished, you were authorized to open your mouth and let 'er rip. Geesh, didn't they teach you anything? Oh, and your suit had to be pressed for God. God apparently has a thing for pressed suits. I don't recall anything about wearing clean underwear in case we were in an accident and had to go to the emergency room, but I may have missed that retemory while I was bent over looking at my shoes. Was going commando authorized? My oh my, it wasn't an enjoyable life in TWI, was it?

I should be dead. Not by any desire on my part, just statistically speaking. The many lousy decisions I made, the outrageous and repetitive risks I took, the utterly careless life I lived In my immediate post-TWI years, I should have died a long time ago. Yet here I sit, getting old and enjoying a casual retirement and still in great health. Also enjoying my rather constant reading of whatever Biblical works that come my way and interest me. Meanwhile, Craig Martindale toils away in an orange smock at a Home Depot somewhere near Akron, and TWI (shell that it is) is led by a lesbian. (No offense to lesbians; just pointing out the irony). Who says God has no sense of humor?!?! Hey, TWI. Next time you want a room full of chairs lined up real pretty, take that ball of string and stick it where the sun don't shine.

Two fine examples of how our minds were manipulated, IMO. "The integrity of 'the word' is always at stake!" A trusting, unquestioning mind hears that and says to itself, "Oh my, how awful! We can't have that! We must defend God's integrity! Man battle stations!!" "It's still 'the word', even if NOBODY believes it!" The same trusting, unquestioning mind hears that and says to itself, "Oh my, we can't have that! I love God sooo much, I want to believe! I'm with you, tell me more!!" Today, anytime I listen to a public speaker stand before a microphone and scream, I'm suspicious. The microphone is there to record and amplify the voice, there is no need to scream. In my memories of hearing these two statements, spoken either in person or on tape, he was always screaming, which made me feel like I must be stupid because I wasn't understanding or agreeing with him fast enough. The statements themselves, as far as they go, are fine. Except they don't go very far. They do not instruct. They are brickbats, hurled at us to further injure our critical thinking skills, hurry our slow and stupid selves along, and keep us in line.

/sarcasm on/ Why doesn't The Way just read what is written?!?! /sarcasm off/