waysider

It's a silly little concept called "eye witnesses". Lots and lots of them. You may be familiar with the concept, no? Any eye witnesses regarding the F.B.I. claim?

Exactly. And to insure it remained safe, Wierwille took extreme security measures. For a guy who trumpeted the value of safety via believing, he sure lived a life of paranoia.

What does any of this have to do the original question? For whom was The Way a "safe haven/harbor"?

Then why do I what? Where is your proof the FBI infiltrated The Way? This is what you said in post #22 There were. They were watching us at least since pfal '77, which happened before Jonestown. They watched us at LEAD HQ. They did think we were going to start attacking places with guns. I guess we weren't that kind of cult. Beliefs are one thing; terrorism is quite another. So, how do you know that?

What was he so afraid of? "Oh, the Illuminati is out to get me"----Yeah, sure. More like some irate husband or father, bent on cutting his nuts off and stuffing them down his throat. Where was all that fearlessness he boasted of ?

He had armed body guards, trained attack dogs, a goon squad he could dispatch to locations outside HQ------and, yet, he told the L.E.A.D. participants they would have to use mojo magic believing to keep themselves safe..... The guy was a hypocritical woos.

In the CF&S class, he said that husbands and wives should each have a "lockbox" where they keep information about their sexual history that they don't share with each other. After reading Losing The Way, it's pretty clear why he taught that. I'm finding it hard to believe I actually sat there and listened to this garbage.

One of your favorites in jr. high???? Oh, my! I really DO feel old now.

and you know this------how?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53q2YuKGejc&feature=related

Wierwille taught "The Lockbox" in CF&S. He even used that specific terminology. Does anyone else remember this?

Bad taste in advertising

Wierwille claimed (in CF&S) that God showed him what the original sin was but he couldn't substantiate it with scripture. "You'll just have to take my word on this."

That's an excellent point. What the heck is "spiritually clean" money? Is that supposed to be money that has never been remotely associated with anything evil? Does such a thing even exist? Has it EVER existed?

For whom was it a "safe harbor"? Certainly not Kristen

ad hominem alert! (generic fallacy)

Well, there were little hints all through the class (Freudian slips) that revealed the real Wierwille. Things like his comments on breasts, his private interpretation of the original sin being a particular sex act, etc. etc. But most of us got sucked into that nonsense about how you can renew your mind to the point of ---I don't know what the proper word or phrase is---you can be so spiritually mature or something that you wouldn't think such things are evil. Turns out, all that means is you can self delude yourself and become adept at rationalization if it suits your lusts.

I suppose so. I was really thinking more, though, of VP's Freudian slippers that he wore for all to see in the CF&S class. And we marveled at how comfortable they appeared to be.

My son sent me this. Why does it remind me of Wierwille and his Christian Sex Class?

One poster here has described an incidence of sexual imposition that he witnessed during the course of the CF&S class. And, he opined, it was actually good because it happened in what most people would call a church related setting. WTF?? What in the he!! was wrong with us that we bought into this horse crap? Better yet, what in the he!! is wrong with people who saw what was going on and still don't understand it?

I'm not so sure I would call the CF&S class porn. That's really a somewhat broad and subjective term that can mean many different things to many different people. I don't think, though, that anyone can deny it was totally irrelevant to the subject of "Biblical research and teaching". There was no research. There was no Bible (unless you count the various scriptures that were thrown in rather randomly to give it a Biblical flavor). And there really was no teaching. Just some horny old dude, rambling on about how it was important for Gawd's people to be current on all the latest gutter vernacular, showing pictures of rather private body parts and making strange comments like,"Aren't her breasts just gorgeous?".

Putting all the moral and Biblical aspects on the back-burner for the moment, here are two problems I have with the CF&S class. First, Wierwille claimed to have thrown all his secular materials away and used the Bible as his "only rule of faith and practice". Maybe the time-frame doesn't fit since his visit to California was at a later date than his miraculous snow storm incident. Does that make a difference? He devoted an entire section of the class to listing commonly used profanities. Where is it in the Bible (his only rule of faith and practice) that the term "up the old dirt road is used"? Either he decided to let the Bible be his only rule of faith and practice or he didn't. Period. Second, in PFAL, he rambled on and on about how "the Bible is of no private interpretation", yet, in CF&S, when presenting his theory on the original sin, he said,"You'll just have to trust me on this one." Forget about whether CF&S was Biblical or moral. The fact is, it was a shoddy piece of workmanship and reeked of hypocrisy.

I think we're all bozos on this bus!