waysider

I don't think it's ad hominem. If John really thinks it's OK that VPW raped others for the furtherance of "the word", it shouldn't bother him to consider what it would have been like if he, himself, had been the recipient of VPW's "attention".

Maybe that's it. Maybe Johnny shared that "special, spiritual experience" (VPW, in CF&S Class) with Doc Vic. After all, Wierwille said that the "deed" is what constituted marriage. (also in CF&S) You surely wouldn't expect Johnny to speak poorly of his spouse now, would you?

Wierwille's demise reminds me of the demise of Atahualpa, the last emperor of The Inca Empire. His followers thought he was Divine and would rise from the grave after his execution. But, alas, he was just a man. His empire fell apart quickly after his death. The Royal Hunt of the Sun

Do you suppose it's just a coincidence he is using the Corps principles as a basis for his program? To Fearlessly Pursue an Understanding of these Principles: 1. Acquire an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness. 2. Receive training in the whole Word so as to be able to teach others. 3. Physical training making your physical body, the vehicle of communication of the Word, as vital as possible. 4. Practice believing to bring material abundance to you and the Ministry. 5. Go forth as leaders and workers in areas of concern, interest and need. SOURCE (Maybe God showed them to him during one of those terrible black-snow storms in Mississippi.) Maybe this part is a coincidence, as well: Any volunteer may be dismissed at any time and/or program cancelled at sole discretion of those charged with oversight.

You may consider eyewitness testimony from individuals, but when you conclude that "old man Wierwille never taught safe boundaries, and VP was a bully, and he set a goal in 1942 to scam people and in 1970 he would finally get his well deserved virtual harem, and he was constantly drunk on Drambuie" (that stuff tastes like those old candy cigarettes, eww), you don't KNOW all that! It's pure speculation! It's obsessive. Actually John---we DO know all that. It's not speculation.

How can you NOT compare him to his Grand-daddy? He's made himself a virtual clone by intentionally resurrecting the Phoenix from the ashes.

Oh, Yeah!! Spirit! One of my all time favorite pre-Waydaze groups. My first twig leader convinced me they were "devilish" and got me to toss out my vinyls. Boy, was I dumb. Randy's story, in itself, is a fascinating read for people who get into that sort of thing. Anyhow, here is some more great material. CLICK

I don't know anything about this particular event. I am aware, however, of a similar event. At an Ohio limb meeting, in the early 1980s, at the Ohio State Fairgrounds, Wierewille took the stage and was quite visibly in some sort of distress, struggling desperately to finish his presentation, which he then ended abruptly. My father, who had seen him speak on previous occasions, turned to me and said, in a matter of fact tone, "He's had a stroke." Hundreds, maybe thousands, of people from across the state were present. Maybe someone else can fill in more details.

hahahaha! Yeah, to hear some people talk, you would think he was some kind of special, secret agent for the Lord or something. Why do I keep hearing that old Johnny Rivers song? There's a man who lives a life of debauchery..... C'mon, everybody, sing with me.

Across the evening sky, all the birds are leaving But how can they know it's time for them to go? Before the winter fire, I shall still be dreaming I do not count the time For who knows where the time goes? Who knows where the time goes? Sad, deserted shore, your fickle friends are leaving Ah, but then you know it's time for them to go But I shall still be here, I have no thought of leaving I have no thought of time For who knows where the time goes? Who knows where the time goes? And I am not alone while my love is near me I know it will be so until it's time to go So come the storms of winter and then the birds in spring again I do not fear the time For who knows how my love grows? And who knows where the time goes?

Why do we even bother comparing VPW to Biblical figures? There was nothing "Biblical" about him. We might as well compare him to famous lumberjacks or shoe salesmen.

They were supposed to be our proof of how the law of believing works. And now that you know that the law of believing was a crock of hooey, what do you do with everything we were taught about The Book of Hebrews?

quote: I maintain that we all have eternal life, incorruptible seed, access to God, peace in our hearts (not as the world giveth), and an Advocate (comforter); Jesus Christ the righteous. None of your arguments has negated any of this. This is where you may have missed the point. You are assuming that what Wierwille taught you about those items is accurate. From what I've observed, regarding his credibility, you might want to examine his teachings with a more critical eye.

So---- there's old Doc Vic, at the very tip-top of our lift lists, with thousands of people all speaking in tongues for him, using the "Way approved" camera-focus technique, coupled with the infallible "law of believing" that "works for saint and sinner alike". And, yet, it all seems to have been for naught. The old cooter just went right on living his usual life of drunkenness and debauchery. And then, in the end, he just got the life sucked out of him by those pesky old cancer spirits that he warned us to be on the look out for. What's it all mean? A thousand voices chanting apathetically in time while the epitaph's recited in an faultless droning rhyme

I don't think he was really afraid of government take-overs. What I think he was afraid of was that some irate father, husband, son or brother would come looking to put his lights out because of his misdeeds. His fears were well founded.

I think it must be one of life's big struggle's for people our age. I know that I, personally, have struggled with it many times. There are two sides to every coin. One side says "What if Jonas Salk's mother had aborted him?" The other side says "What if Adolf Hitler's mother had aborted him?" Life is full of "what ifs?" and "might have beens". So, even though I will never know if my life would have been better or worse if I had never encountered The Way, like skyrider, I am quite certain I regret missing all the birthdays, weddings, wakes, little league championships, Christmas pagents, and time spent in meaningless idle talk with my parents and family. I can never get those years and opportunities back. I don't think it's wrong to admit you feel regret. Why shouldn't you? Still, I think it would be wrong to let that regret rob you of all the good memories that have come your way, too, despite the craziness The Way invoked on our lives. Regret? Absolutely. But, be thankful, too.

I heard him say something similar at the Advanced Class in 1973, but I don't remember the details.

Here's one from a very young "Benny 'levenletter"

"Have you seen this?" Yes, many of those things have been posted on various threads before. However, you did a nice job of bringing them together, in one place, to examine.

Well, my point, really, was that there really was something that at least resembled a "research department" at one brief point in The Way's history. It certainly wasn't anything like it was promoted to be and it was quite short lived. Still, it did exist at some level. I wasn't trying to single out any one particular person.

Here is another link. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/editorial/editorial-items/research-geeks-top-ten-list-of-doctrinal-errors.html

Actually, there was, at one point in The Way's history, what could loosely be defined as a "research dept". There are posters here on GSC who were part of it. HERE is an interesting article that examines some of the workings of the "research department".

True, but Wierwille was very familiar with Jones' work. In fact, if you research the works of Jones, you will find the parallels unsettling. Even the Way Corps concept is strikingly similar to Jones' modern revival of the Ashram. The actual execution, of course, is unfortunately dissimilar. Jones, you may recall, had a rather lengthy and successful career in India. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Stanley_Jones http://www.robinsonlibrary.com/philosophy/practical/missions/jones.htm