waysider

The Devil Made Me Do It!

I wanna know whose believing is responsible for the light bulb burning out in the first place.

And this is from a man who died as a result of an ophthalmic pathology. I'm just sayin'-----

I had never heard of it (or the subjects it dealt with) until I started posting at GSC.

The answer is HERE. FREE POST!!!!

So, when you movin' on, Clay?

I'm reminded of a movie I saw many years ago called The Gods Must Be Crazy. HERE is part #1.

No guesses?

You are correct! BTW----You don't really need the artist for this thread. (The tune was a hit for both Smokey and Johnny Rivers.) Johnny Rivers

So, what, then? There's no room at the inn for people who aren't sure either way?

So are you now implying that "believing" is not always required?

"Is the Spanish Inquisition next on the calendar?" :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

People say I'm the life of the party 'cause I tell a joke or two.

How old does that make him in dog years?

That's what the original bumper stickers looked like. ("God said it, I believe it, That settles it") I think this may have come from a sermon that Billy Graham gave at one of his crusades in the early 1970's. Not to be one-upped as the World's authority on spiritual matters, Wierwille feigned indignation and insisted his revision was the only accurate one. Riiiiiiiiight! edit: VPW taught this in a big public meeting so there's a good chance it's on tape somewhere. There was an incident in my local area (which I've posted before) that precipitated the public teaching. That's why it sticks so tightly to my memory.

Hi, Twinky The key to understanding this WIKI is in noting that "it became popular" from the 1st to 4th century. Much evidence suggests its origins are much older. But that's not really my point. Wierwille simply voiced his "counterfeit" objection wherever and whenever he had no real answer. In this instance, he simply restated the argument that had been presented long ago by the Church Fathers. And we thought he had some special insight because of his spiritual connection. (cough)

Along these same lines----- Many years ago, it was popular among mainstream Christianity to use the phrase, "God said it, I believe it, that settles it." Wierwille heard it and went into one of his pseudo, "spiritually angry" tirades about how this was "off The Word". He said "To make the phrase accurate, one would need to say 'God said it, that settles it.' It doesn't mean a hill of beans WHAT you believe!" Sooooo, one could conceivably extend this logic to positive and negative confession governing the outcome of a situation. Your "believing" would be a moot point.

You have stated this as an "absolute" requirement. There is no scriptural basis for this. In fact, if you are an adventurous sort, I'll bet you can find Biblical examples that illustrate there were people who "received from God" DESPITE what they believed.

Sounds like it could have been a line from Through the Looking Glass.

When I took the Advanced Class in 1973, the subject of "pre-Christ era" resurrections in various religions was raised. Wierwille's explanation was that the devil staged these events in a preemptive effort to draw attention away from Christ's resurrection. Looking back, it's obvious Wierwille had discovered that, if there were questions he really didn't know the answer to, he could simply play the "devil's trickery" card. And, it made us feel smug that we knew the "REAL" insider information on these matters. Here are some interesting blurbs about Mithra for your consideration. http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen048.html http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/Mithraism.html *Please do not read these unless you are open to thoughtful consideration.* ******************************** "All this may surprise modern Christians but it was very familiar to the Church Fathers [see e.g. Justin, Origen, Tertullian], who filled their ‘Apologies’ with dubious rationales as to how Mithraism had anticipated the whole nine yards of Christianity centuries before the supposed arrival of Jesus – ‘diabolic mimicry by a prescient Satan’ being the standard explanation. Pagan critics were not slow to point to the truth: Christianity had simply copied the popular motifs of a competitive faith. **************************

Got nothing but this old heart of mine Baby, please, believe in me Girl, you know, sweet heart, I'll always try to keep you satisfied, 'cause------ -------------------------------

Very possible. You have sights, sounds and the smell of stretched coffee all rolled into one.

That's OK. It all seems like one of those "Once upon a time" kinda fairy tales after a while, anyhow. (At least my own personal story does.) :P

I don't think that's quite it. That would fall under the umbrella of self delusion. And, that may well be what we are really talking about. "Triggers" are generally activated by one of the five senses, smell being the most powerful. They're not an intellectual process but rather an emotional response. Fear is an emotion, not one of the five senses, thus it is not a trigger, in and of itself, though it may be the product of a trigger. Here's an example of a trigger: When I was young, we would take a bus to get to Public Square. The bus stop at the end was directly in front of a shop that fresh roasted various nuts. The aroma was intoxicating. Furthermore, I always enjoyed my trips downtown. Years later, when I would smell fresh nuts roasting, I would be almost overcome with a sense of "homesickness". It was not based on any particular instance or thought. It was purely emotional. For a long time I could not for the life of me understand why I had that reaction to fresh roasting nuts. Then, coincidentally, I happened to take a bus that deposited me right in front of that very same shop. At that moment, I was able to intellectualize something that had only, up to that point, been an emotional experience. So, long story made short---- Fear of wasted time may very well be an important factor but I would hesitate to classify it as a "trigger".

The real issue, as I see it, is not whether mothers worry about their children. The real issue is that Wierwille intentionally created a problem for the express purpose of solving it. He was a demagogue. I doubt that many of us gave much thought to how "worry" would resolve itself until Wierwille told us we should. (After all, look at the tragic consequences suffered by the mother of that little boy.) Then, he conveniently provided the solution. The fact is, we can't change things in the physical realm one iota by simply thinking about them, whether for better or worse. He got this mumbo-jumbo from the New Age Movement that was gaining steam in the early days of the ministry. ********************************** "Optimism Positive thinking supported by affirmations will achieve success in anything;[34] this is based on the concept that Thought Creates. Therefore, as one begins focusing attention and consciousness on the positive, on the "half-filled" glass of water, reality starts shifting and materializing the positive intentions and aspects of life. A certain critical mass of people with a highly spiritual consciousness will bring about a sudden change in the whole population.[35] Humans have a responsibility to take part in positive creative activity and to work to heal ourselves, each other and the planet.[36] Human Potential Movement The human mind has much greater potential than that ascribed to it[37][38][39] and is even capable of overriding physical reality.[40]" **************************************** VP latched onto the works of Norman Vincent Peale (The Power of Positive Thinking) and others of the same genre. Then, he threw in some Biblical references and convinced us we had been searching for this information all along. Mothers (and fathers) worry about their children because it helps their minds stay alert to impending and hidden danger. How can that be a bad thing?