waysider

If there genuine goal was to "move The Word", as they have professed for so many years, one would think they would embrace such a circumstance, despite a small monetary loss.

http://www.wittenburgdoor.com/driscoll-kicks-own-foot Mark Driscoll, Pastor of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, took a dramatic stand against girly men at a Pastor’s Conference in Houston last week. The conference, called “re:tool and re:load,” previously billed as “jesus 2.0,” featured speakers from around the country with the stated focus of “Making the Gospel and Missiology Relevant to Post Modern Culture.” Speaking at the last session of the conference, Driscoll focused his three-and-a-half-hour talk on the need for pastors to be more alpha. “The problem with our churches today is that the lead pastor is some sissy boy who wears cardigan sweaters, has The Carpenters dialed in on his iPod, gets his hair cut at a salon instead of a barber shop, hasn’t been to an Ultimate Fighting match, works out on an elliptical machine instead of going to isolated regions of Russia like in Rocky IV in order to harvest lumber with his teeth, and generally swishes around like Jack from Three’s Company whenever Mr. Roper was around.” “At last year’s Converging Conference, Driscoll talked about standing up when you .... and I got really excited. We started a men’s-only Bible Accountability Group. It was a combination of scripture study and Muy Thai Stick Fighting. It was great for a few weeks, until my worship pastor lost an eye. I had to make a tough call then and there: no more Muy Thai Stick Fighting at Kiona Community without protective face gear. I still think it might have been a spiritual compromise.” In Houston, Driscoll was intent on making absolutely clear that he is in favor of masculinity. At the 2 hour, 15 minute mark, he invited five pastors from the audience to take the stage, put his hands behind his back, stuck out his chin, and said, “Hit me with your best shot. Go on. I won’t hit you back. I want to show everyone what this is all about.” When none of the five took a swing, Driscoll had them escorted from the building and proceeded to hit himself five times. “This is what being a pastor is about, guys. If you can’t handle it, go back to teaching yoga or playing My Little Pony with the other girls.” The rest of the session followed the same general tone, with Driscoll ridiculing insulated coffee cups, haiku and dental floss as feminine while extolling athletic cups, tobacco spit and broken load-bearing bones as being “essential for a pastor.”

"Nowhere is the connection between Driscoll’s hypermasculinity and his Calvinist theology clearer than in his refusal to tolerate opposition at Mars Hill. The Reformed tradition’s resistance to compromise and emphasis on the purity of the worshipping community has always contained the seeds of authoritarianism: John Calvin had heretics burned at the stake and made a man who casually criticized him at a dinner party march through the streets of Geneva, kneeling at every intersection to beg forgiveness. Mars Hill is not 16th-century Geneva, but Driscoll has little patience for dissent. In 2007, two elders protested a plan to reorganize the church that, according to critics, consolidated power in the hands of Driscoll and his closest aides. Driscoll told the congregation that he asked advice on how to handle stubborn subordinates from a “mixed martial artist and Ultimate Fighter, good guy” who attends Mars Hill. “His answer was brilliant,” Driscoll reported. “He said, ‘I break their nose.’ ” When one of the renegade elders refused to repent, the church leadership ordered members to shun him. One member complained on an online message board and instantly found his membership privileges suspended. “They are sinning through questioning,” Driscoll preached. John Calvin couldn’t have said it better himself." (same source)

It may be difficult for Bol. to understand parts of this because he was born into The Way. There was no choice for him in the matter. Most of us, on the other hand, elected to join. We had to be sold a bill of goods before we bought into the con. Just a thought.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/magazine/11punk-t.html "The oldest of five, son of a union drywaller, Driscoll was raised Roman Catholic in a rough neighborhood on the outskirts of Seattle. In high school, he met a pretty blond pastor’s daughter named — providentially — Grace. She gave him his first Bible. He read voraciously and was born again at 19. “God talked to me,” Driscoll says. “He told me to marry Grace, preach the Bible, to plant churches and train men.” He married Grace (with whom he now has five children) and, at 25, founded Mars Hill."

Here's your link, WG. http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages...0,00.html?imw=Y

What don't you buy, Mr B.?

Microwaving plastic. Teflon Melamine

Refer to the SNAPPING and Stockholm Syndrome threads.

Ironic, isn't it? Moving tapes across state lines has suddenly taken on a criminal importance, yet, when the subject of transporting human beings across state lines, for the purpose of debauchery (a federal crime under The Mann Act of 1910) was raised, it was glossed over. Go figure. :blink:

Just then I realized I'd drifted off into a daydream. Reality came crashing in around me as----------

Ha!---Hadn't thought of that! We're in a new administration, The Age of "We Be Gone Now."

-----Ben E. King

A most excellent replay, Sir George. Carry on.

Exiled now, you travel inward, Flames engulf your throne. Puppets hang in effigy, While someone casts a stone. A lonely queen has cuckold you. A princely sword's been drawn. The noble blood once spilled for you will wear your crown at dawn.

Now, see, you guys just don't get. These aren't just any old books, these are The Holy Grail, lost since Paul was in knee pants. for these were the days of PLAF--------------- For yea verily, it came to pass that in the end days of the class of Leonard, a mighty wind did roar throughout the land of the corn-ites and Gawd parted wide the covers of the holy silly-bus and breathed the gift of PLAF into the very pages. And Gawd said, from this day forward shall the children of the Land of New Knockwurst be known as PLAFilites and unto their childrens' childrens' children shall there be more children.

Just like a ghost you've been hauntin' my dreams So I'll propose on Halloween.

I believe the answer is "yes". Take, for example, the way he kept revising his books to try to make the plagiarism less obvious. That takes a conscious and deliberate effort. It demonstrates that he was cognizant of his deception.

Before he had a following, it would best be described as an intent to deceive. I believe the intent to deceive existed long before he was able to generate enough interest to amass a following.

I don't think the followers are a factor in the question, which was whether or not Wierwille's deceptions were deliberate.

In a little cafe just the other side of the border---

The Tulsa snowstorm was a blatant lie. Wierwille confirmed that he knew it was by later inventing a new version to cover his tracks.

Yes

His deliberate falsehoods and deceptions would seem to indicate otherwise.

It might be why some people, who were never (or minimally) subjected to the isolation that was built into the various TWI programs, never seem to really "get it".