waysider

We used to have unannounced, middle of the night room inspections in Fellow Laborers. They even inspected underwear drawers to insure that everything was folded and stored properly. (Of course, it never was. <_< ) And yes, male leaders rifled through the females unmentionables. How nuts was all that?

Programing people to act like bullies is only half of the story. The other half is that they programed others to be recipients. They programed the latter to believe they were spiritually weak (whatever that really means) and wrong to ever question or doubt the former. [Refer to Eve's predicament, as "explained" in session 7 of PLAF (The Wonder Class).] They villafied those who objected and protested. They never could have succeeded in creating a class of bullies without creating a class of recipients. For some people, it takes years to recognize that such vulnerability can have disastrous consequences. So, in a sense, it's my opinion that instilling a naive sense of blind trust in the recipients was just as heinous as creating bullies.

Maybe his scabbard was empty.

You've piqued my interest. Can you cite some specifics?

Why is it this reminds me of a traffic round about? First, you said if there was confirmation of proven guilt, you would shout from the roof tops. Then, when an example was given, you said the context was about VPW, not just any old guilt. Now, you're saying it has nothing to do with guilt or innocence, even though that seems to be the title of the thread. It looks to me like you are having trouble figuring out how to navigate the round about.

You can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time. But you can't fool--------- Mom. Ron Penfound (AKA Capt. Penny) paraphrasing Abraham Lincoln

Now why would we want another case when you've already declared that "the context was VPW."?

"The context was VPW." 'Nother words----It's all about upholding the innocence of VPW. WD doesn't seem to really be concerned about you, me, or the poor kids in Alaska who suffered at the hands of a known pedophile due to the negligence of TWI. What he is concerned about (IMO) is maintaining the image of VP Wierwille in an unblemished state.

QUOTE (waysider @ Feb 22 2009, 06:58 PM) * What basis do you have for comparison? In light of you having never been in the corps, it's reasonable to expect you would not see the connection. Except I was and there is no comparison. So now you are saying that you WERE in the corps? As an active participant in daily activities?

Let me see if I understand this correctly. This whole thread is about the presumed innocence of VPW?

Was this the same young lady who had tried to look behind the curtain a few years prior?

My post was in response to this statement: "Show me a confirmed charge of a crime and I'll shout it from the roof tops."

No. In fact, part of Wierwille's gimmick was that this was supposedly proprietary information that contradicted the conventional materials one might find in a library. So, he was already telling us that if we were to "research" other sources, we would likely find "erroneous" information. He was a master of obviation. OBVIATION

What basis do you have for comparison? In light of you having never been in the corps, it's reasonable to expect you would not see the connection.

There have been cases of children being sexually molested by leadership that resulted, not only in charges, but in convictions and incarcerations. These are matters of public record. Upper leadership made deliberate efforts to cover them up and allowed the practice to continue. These things have, in fact, been documented on GSC, as I'm sure you're well aware.

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Thanks, George That is an amazing album. I can't even begin to count how many times I've listened to it. Here's some more jazz for a lazy afternoon. SUGAR PLUM----Bill Evans Trio

Such as?

Sunday Will Never Be The Same-------------Spanky and Our Gang NEXT!

I think most of us share that sentiment with you, Leafy. Thirty three pages recalling child abuse in TWI. First hand testimony of abuse. First hand testimony of cover ups at the highest levels.. Documentation of felony convictions and incarceration. And yet there are people who continue to beyotch and whine about needing more "proof", hoping the new arrivals will be driven off before they find this stuff. Kinda makes ya sick, don't it?

-----Gloria Gaynor

The things that attracted us to The Way are timeless. A need to belong, personal relationships, desire to know what life is all about, desire to serve God, etc. The difference today, I think, is that kids are more skeptical and world conditioned than we were. We were coming out of a generation when kids were largely naive. I think it's like a con game that changes its form to suit the audience or one of those urban legends that sounds as believable today as it did when we first heard it 40 years ago because the '57 Chevy has become a Cadillac Escalade in the modern version. Side note: I was witnessed to by a twig of complete strangers but the people in the twig had known each other prior to TWI. One took an immediate special interest in me. (Date and Switch) I wish I had seen through that.

I'm curious. In Fellow Laborers (mid 1970s) we did something that sounds just like Momentus. I don't remember if it was referred to by any specific name. It was run by outsiders, one of which was J@!m!3 L0u!5. Does anyone else remember this or remember if it was a precursor to Momentus?

It seems to me that the voices of the ones who WERE there are the ones you so aggressively toil to silence.

Most men would be reluctant to acknowledge they've been played for a CUCKOLD Take, for example, a man whose wife is given the honor of cleaning the leader's home whenever the leader's wife is out of town. By TWI standards, it would be a sign of spiritual weakness for him to allow his mind to suspect that anything dishonorable was taking place. So what does he do, announce that he's spiritually weak or wait to be exposed as a cuckold?