
waysider
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Everything posted by waysider
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The presumption of innocence – being innocent until proven guilty,
waysider replied to WhiteDove's topic in About The Way
GarthP2000 said: 2) As a classic precedence illustrating this principle, would Adolph Hitler's crimes against humanity also be subject to said principle? (Why won't you deal with that point?) Remember, he wasn't charged either, and since what people say he did amounted to crimes, ... against humanity, ..... WD responded: Adolph Hitler is not an American he is not subject to our legal standards his case is different from VP's if you wish to make a case for him feel free. Relevant point being stressed by WD: Adolph Hitler is not an American waysider responded: Was Jim Jones ever convicted of his crimes at Jonestown? (He was an American.) WD responded: It was your example site your own definitive answer why should I do your work? waysider responded: Simple. You're the one who protested that the prior Hitler example was not valid based on the fact that he was not American. Now, when I give you an example of someone who IS American, you suddenly have a new excuse to evade the issue. Do you really think that if you remove something two steps from its original context that people won't see you are dodging the issue? WD responded: Had you done your research you would see that the crimes you speak of were also not committed in America ,trying to scrape the bottom of the barrel in other countries to prove your point on how it somehow applies to law here is beyond me. No issue dodging the laws in Guyana are not applicable here.You can persue your point on your own it does not apply to this subject. ****************************************** Point of note: WD's original objection to Garth's inquiry was that Hitler was not American. WD was supplied with an example of someone who was American but found a new excuse to avoid answering the following question: "Was Jim Jones ever convicted of his crimes at Jonestown?" *************************************** Sounds like dodging to me but that's just my opinion. edit: Not only was Jones an American, his victims were, as well. (Likewise for Leo Ryan, the elected U.S. official whose assassination was facilitated by Jones) -
The presumption of innocence – being innocent until proven guilty,
waysider replied to WhiteDove's topic in About The Way
Here's another issue to contemplate. Do you suppose Wierwille ever considered that summoning someone to HQ, from another state, for the purpose of having sex with them, might violate The Mann Act? -
The presumption of innocence – being innocent until proven guilty,
waysider replied to WhiteDove's topic in About The Way
Simple. You're the one who protested that the prior Hitler example was not valid based on the fact that he was not American. Now, when I give you an example of someone who IS American, you suddenly have a new excuse to evade the issue. Do you really think that if you remove something two steps from its original context that people won't see you are dodging the issue? -
songs remembered from just one line
waysider replied to bulwinkl's topic in Movies, Music, Books, Art
is correct!(It was a big hit for Philadelphia group The Trammps.) Your turn, George. -
No. No warnings. There was no sense that it was something we shouldn't be doing. In fact, it seemed like the only right thing to do in a world that was changing at break-neck speed all around us. Society was in the midst of a chaotic upheaval. There was a very unpopular war going on. Cultural mores were being redefined at an unprecedented rate. Everything was very loose and spontaneous at the local levels. It's probably hard for you, being born into it, to comprehend because the organization you know and the one many of us remember from the 1970s are like night and day. (At least on a superficial level)
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songs remembered from just one line
waysider replied to bulwinkl's topic in Movies, Music, Books, Art
Burn ,Baby, Burn -
If they don't admit that TWI had problems, they can excuse themselves from being duped like the rest of us.
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HeeHee! Not really. I think you could probably trace this stuff way back to the early days. Wierwille didn't just wake up one day and suddenly decide to become a sexual predator.It's a chronic condition. Looking back on my time in FLO, in the mid '70s, I realize now that it had to have already been going on then at the HQ. level. It makes me feel like I got played for a chump. Not because I didn't participate in the shenanigans but because he used our lifestyle to camouflage his own. I mean, here we were, a group of young, virile adults, signed to a 2 year commitment to live a life of alcohol and drug free celibacy. (celibacy for the singles) Meanwhile, we saw signs that indicated less than honorable things, such as Wierwille's then-rumored alcohol abuse, might be going on but were reproved for even THINKING such things. Can't be thinking evil of "the household" now, can we? We must be spiritually weak and lacking sufficient renewed mind to entertain doubts.(cough) The WOWs were publicly, advised at WOW training, to "keep it in their pants" during their WOW year. In CF&S, Wierwille advised the women to learn how to satisfy their own needs rather than succumb to temptation. (He said men didn't need to "learn" this.) In retrospect, I think all this stuff was a smokescreen he used because he knew our lives were much more transparent to the public than his was at HQ. So, if his life came under scrutiny, he could point at these things as a ready made rebuttal. Just my opinion.
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The presumption of innocence – being innocent until proven guilty,
waysider replied to WhiteDove's topic in About The Way
Perhaps even more significant is that it would be costly. With an ever shrinking "customer base", they need to use what's left prudently if they ever plan to tap it as a retirement fund. -
The presumption of innocence – being innocent until proven guilty,
waysider replied to WhiteDove's topic in About The Way
Then when a scenario that DID include the U.S. legal system was cited (Jim Jones), no definitive answer was ever presented. ***************************************** Do you suppose the motorcoach ever had any "passengers" when it crossed state lines? -
The presumption of innocence – being innocent until proven guilty,
waysider replied to WhiteDove's topic in About The Way
I wonder if Wierwille and Co. ever considered the ramifications of violating The Mann Act? ALSO (Please note: I posed the question of whether they ever considered it. I didn't say they violated it.) -
The presumption of innocence – being innocent until proven guilty,
waysider replied to WhiteDove's topic in About The Way
That never stopped Wierwille. HaHaHaHaHa! -
songs remembered from just one line
waysider replied to bulwinkl's topic in Movies, Music, Books, Art
Walk Away Renee---- The Left Banke -
The presumption of innocence – being innocent until proven guilty,
waysider replied to WhiteDove's topic in About The Way
You one funny dude, WD. -
The presumption of innocence – being innocent until proven guilty,
waysider replied to WhiteDove's topic in About The Way
This is starting to sound a good bit more like dialog from a Monty Python movie than a rational discussion. -
I remember that section of scripture being used to suggest that, if you were ever less than totally honest with leadership, an unpleasant fate awaited you. In other words, it was used to control people and keep them in a naive state of vulnerability and submission. We trusted them. They betrayed our trust.
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The frog was lured into the pot while on a quest for better lily pads.
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The presumption of innocence – being innocent until proven guilty,
waysider replied to WhiteDove's topic in About The Way
"If you want to continue to misrepresent what I said here which by the way is against the rules." Please supply a specific example. I think you're blowing smoke with semantic trivia. It's obvious to most who read your posts what you are implying whether you use the words "guilt" and "innocence" or not. "I have consistently said it was undetermined ,undocumentable" I'm not sure how you can cite things that have been documented here and characterize them as being undocumented. By the way I thought you were ignoring posts in blue, or was that another misrepresentation? Yes, that is a misrepresentation---but not on my part. This is what I actually posted. "Maybe it's just me. Sometimes I see a post that's written almost entirely in one color ink, such as blue, and my mind wants to pass it right by. Kinda like a bad wreck on the freeway that I really have no desire to even glance at. I guess these old eyes just don't want to be bothered with the strain these days." -
The presumption of innocence – being innocent until proven guilty,
waysider replied to WhiteDove's topic in About The Way
I suppose I could "cut and paste" a definition for you but what would be the point? You already know what it would say. If you want to continue presuming Wierwille was innocent of actions that have been recounted here by first hand testimony, that's your choice. In my opinion, though, what you are trying to do is virtually the same thing that has been done to rape victims, time and time again, in court. If you can't stand to hear people speak evil of your hero, maybe you should invest in some cotton balls and stick them in your ears. It doesn't sound like the healthiest of solutions but to each his own. -
When I look in the mirror, I wonder why there's some old guy looking back at me.
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Glad your exit was so easy. For some others, it wasn't quite that straightforward. Personally, I don't really think one leaves The Way until they start to deliberately flush some of the toxins of Way doctrine and thinking from their minds.
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Maybe the contents changed over time but when I took it in the mid 1970s, much of the material was legally inappropriate for 13 year old kids. Some of us objected. Wierwille said, "What better place to learn it than with "The Family"? Yeah, that's like saying your kid's gonna try drinking some day so why not just buy him/her a bottle of Turkey and get smashed together?
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Nah, we just lived in a commune like a bunch of celibate, non-toking hippies.
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My dog's bigger than your dog. My dog's bigger than yours. Come on everybody-----Sing with me! Seriously though, it sounds like us, 40 years ago, comparing The Way to organized religion. Sad