waysider

Only one I recognize is Chuck Negron----3 Dog Night? Sounded pretty cool, though, from what I heard.

Here it is in a nutshell, Brush (Please note that the following does not necessarily reflect my current beliefs.) When a person is physically born, they have: (1.) body (skin and bones, etc.) ( 2.) soul (breath-life---which starts at first breath and ends at the last) but no spirit. God can not talk to them because He is Spirit and can only talk to spirit. :blink: This is the same as people in the O.T. Certain people in the O.T. had spirit placed upon them on a conditional basis. That made it possible for God to speak to them. After Pentecost, the new birth became available to those who satisfied the conditions in Romans 10:9 & 10. (ie: Confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead.) This plants a seed in the person which is permanent. It is Christ in you. It is Christ's eyes behind your eyes, Christ's ears behind your ears, yada, yada. It is referred to as the "gift" of holy spirit.(note the lower case usage.) The person is now a three-fold being. (Body, soul, AND spirit.) It represents eternal life. Speaking in tongues is an outward manifestation of its presence. <_< It is a direct connection to God. Okay---What's that have to do with angels? If you have a direct connection to God, you have no need for angels to intercede. One exception to this would be children who have not yet reached the "age of accountability." They are appointed a "guardian angel" until they can accept salvation on their own. (Based on one or two verses in The Book Of Hebrews.) Now, keep in mind that TWI taught that 1/3 of the angels were cast out of Heaven when Lucifer (the original bright and morning star) was expelled from God's presence because he sought to overthrow God's throne. They (those angels who conspired with Lucifer) now roam the earth seeking to create havoc among Earth's inhabitants. They are what TWI referred to as Devil Spirits. So, what you call angels, TWI calls Devil Spirits. That's probably as clear as mud but it's the way I remember it.

Coming from you, this story doesn't surprise me in the least. You've got a heart of gold, lady.

Tough question to answer, Brush. Not because I don't know the answer but because, as has been pointed out, so much was "unspoken". Many of the things that were "off-limits" were directly tied to the so-called "law" of believing. Staying away from doctors was a big one (especially for mental heath) because it was an indicator of the strength of one's believing. And, if your believing quotient was low, that meant you were a spiritual weakling. Who wants to be thought of as a spiritual weakling? I say "especially mental health" because it was taught that they promoted a "worldly" kind of wisdom that was contrary to God's Word. Heck, they could even be possessed (or worse). Wouldn't want to take advise from somebody like that when you could just as easily get everything you need from leadership. Besides, you should take the money you save by not going to them and send it to The Way. With that in mind, here are some things that I think qualify as "forbidden" in the context of the discussion. 1. Dating outside the group 2. Marriage outside the group 3. Friendships outside the group. 4. Jobs that interfered with "Ministry" activities. 5. Avocations that took time (or money) away from The Way. 6. Lack of forward progress in completing classes. 7. Lack of desire to take on more and more responsibility. 8. Questioning the authority of "leadership" decisions. 9. Questioning the accuracy of anything that came from VPW. 10. Leaving "The One true household". (If you ever left, you would be out of fellowship, outside God's "hedge of protection" -----and the Boogieman would be waiting for you on the other side so he could whoop you upside the head between your eyes.)

Wow! Plus 6 for artist and minus 6 for leader. Does that mean I should get a job painting what other people tell me to? "Think I'll cut the soles out of my shoes, live in a tree and learn to play the flute."------Firesign Theater

I think you have pretty much cut straight to the chase, Oak. Wierwille used Lev. 17:11 (The life of the flesh is in the blood) as the basis for his theology on this subject. He coupled that with the biological idea which states that the "blood component" of a conception is contributed by the sperm, not the egg. A fetus has its own circulatory system, separate from the mother's circulatory system. Therefore (per VPW) Christ could not have been the result of a conception that involved human (blood generating) sperm because the blood of mankind had become tainted over time. Thus, his conception had to result from Mary's egg being fertilized by something other than impure human sperm. But, as you pointed out, this begs the question," Does the body's life residing in the blood necessarily translate into "soul life" being transmitted via the sperm?" Maybe we should have examined Lev. 17:11 a bit more closely. Now if this is accurate, at least from a theological viewpoint, it certainly puts a big wrinkle in Wierwille's assertion that life begins with the first breath, which is a position we were primed to take in PLAF (The Wonder Class). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: the "other Jesus" teaching. I, too, remember being taught that. That was the basis for the insistence that we always include the name "Christ" whenever we prayed. Wouldn't want to be inadvertently tricked into praying to The Boogieman, now would we? <_< It does seem a bit ludicrous that a God who is supposedly is all-knowing, all-powerful, ever-present, cognizant of the deepest issues of our heart, a God who "knows every hair on our head", could be so easily confused by the exact verbiage of a prayer. But, hey, what do I know? My conception was accomplished in a more typical fashion.

Blues 2.0

Oz never did give nothin' to The Tin Man That he didn't already have. ----------------------Tin Man (America)

Life is just a bowl of oat bran. You wake up every morning and it's there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpu6kjrsvk0

I think it was $45 when I took it. That was a lot of money in 1972.

I must have missed that part. <_< What I object to is not his personal involvement. That's really none of my business. What I object to is the favorable picture this article appears to paint of The Way and its various products such as the classes and fellowships. The Way is nothing more than a Multi-Level Marketing scheme that has preyed on the unsuspecting for decades. This article simply aroused curiosity in a manner that favored The Way.

Crank up the AC until it's good and Frosty. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqqgqrbFdwM

Havin' a Party

Chicago meets New Jersey (Jr. Wells with Southside Johnny and The Asbury Jukes.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xjXUryfVNc More Southside Johnny

Where (in The Bible) does it say people are going to Hell?

Hey, That's No way To Say Goodbye

"All the bad people are gone" ------------------ :o "What they do at Headquarters and teach on the field are two different things" (Nice to see you, Mr. B.)

Wierwille latched onto the Trinitarian aspect of Christian cults and completely ignored the rest because it served his agenda. A group can be a cult without any involvement of Trinitarian beliefs. Every group has something that makes it uniquely different from other groups. With Christian Cults, that might well include the Trinity but that is not the defining factor. I remember how Wierwille enjoyed playing up this comparison of The Way to groups that were accepted as being cults. It gave him a ready made platform to launch into his JCING theology. He embraced the comparisons.

If we cancel the space program, what will Captain Brainstorm do with his free time? http://www.nickjr.com/playtime/shows/bill/...instorm.jhtml?=

Sir Duke http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmUvVj2mxnY

Space Spinoffs http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html

I don't think anyone has said he is not free to choose. Personally, I think the article should stick to sports rather than avail itself as a launching pad for TWI promotion.

Here's a few from "The Texas Cannonball" to start the week off with a bang. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aimj-mTeFKA...feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGLmZCZ1sXY...feature=related

Wasn't there a photo here at one time of the TWI Research Library? I can't seem to find it now.

In TWI, everything always had to have some sort of spiritual meaning. According toTWI, bad things supposedly happened in your area or your life because you were moving "The Word" and the adversary was trying to stop it. But then again, maybe bad things supposedly happened in your area or your life because you were NOT moving "The Word", thus giving the adversary an open trapdoor by which to attack you. Geeze Louise---Maybe bad stuff just happens---period, ya know? In the grand scheme of the history of mankind, VPW was nobody. He was a huckster, a flim-flam man who set up a clever MLM and used "The Word" to lend credibility to it all. It was never about "us" or God, it was always about VP. He got what he wanted. He had prime real estate, servants to wait on him, expensive guns and dogs and fishing gear to satisfy his outdoor interests. He had a whole fleet of classic cars and a fleet of expensive motorcycles tucked away, out of sight from Joe B. Leever. He had his own private jet and a motor coach. He even had his own private harem of concubines. And the list goes on. Who paid for all that stuff? Is it any wonder he pushed so hard for "Word Over The World"? Money from classes, money from ABS, all at the expense of someone other than VPW. We're like the little old man on the 11 o'clock news who relates how he was swindled out of his life savings. It's embarrassing as heck to admit it but, at the same time, it's a relief to get it out in the open.