waysider

Okay, here's what I don't get. And, I'm not trying to make trouble. You say you consider Mass to be one of the most serious forms of worship but you S.I.T. while the service is being held. To each his own. I guess. It just strikes me as being like the people who make a recipe they saw online and then comment on how much they really liked it but added coconut sprinkles and pineapple chunks to the mix. Well, it's not the same recipe, then, is it?

When you say "they", are you referring to the individuals or the organization?

I'm picturing a character from Loony Toons, complete with steam coming out of the ears, as I read this.

If I could be anybody in the world, it wouldn't be Joel Osteen. Cookie monster?...maybe. Psy?...Yeah, baby! But, Joel Osteen? nah.

I guess that depends on how you define eloquent. JAL can certainly crank out the corny, hay seed humor as well the best of them.

I'm not sure what criteria we can use to establish a rating system, but I would probably have to say that VPW was the "undisputed king of offshoot ministries", at least as it relates to the ex-Way community. The Way is really just an offshoot of B.G. Leonard's ministry. The evidence of that is clearly depicted in Mrs. Wierwille's book.

Hi, Steve. We have a new thread called of healing and day- to- day life. It's in the Matters of Faith forum. Perhaps you would like to visit it and elaborate a bit more.

I, too, lived a somewhat sheltered life when I was in the ministry. Lots and lots of information escaped my notice. If you aren't familiar with John's connection to the items you listed, you might, if you so choose, revisit some of the many threads here that deal with said items. More eloquent than the Doctor? In case this bit of information has escaped your notice, I'll just go ahead and let the cat out of the bag. Wierwille was not a doctor. His doctorate was as phony as (insert phony item of choosing here). Yep, that's right. His "doctorate" was awarded by a degree mill. Of course, it served its purpose well. It lent credibility to the façade he used to hide his elaborate plagiarism scheme. What's that you say? You didn't know PFAL was really a bunch of material he stole from other people? He might have gotten away with it, too, if it hadn't been for those pesky, meddling kids at GSC.

In the Power For Abundant Living class (aka PFAL), Wierwille teaches that when a person is born into the world they are a twofold being. They have body and soul. Body is simply your physical being, your skin, bones, pinky toes and so on. Way theology defines soul as being one's "breathlife". In accordance with that definition, soul begins with the first breath and ends with the last and, as such, is only temporary. The spiritual component is absent. (Soul is sometimes referred to as the spirit of man and not to be confused with the spirit of God.) A third component, known as spirit, enters the picture if and when a person becomes a born-again Christian. The spiritual component is thought to be eternal. At that point, they are considered to be a believer. Without spirit, they are considered to be an unbeliever. That's the simple definition. As you delve into Way theology, however, it becomes progressively more nuanced. Calling someone an unbeliever is sometimes meant to have dehumanizing implications. Wierwille goes to some length in the PFAL class to differentiate between someone who has not heard enough to choose the new birth and someone who has heard but still rejects it. Those who lack the spiritual component are thought to be empty vessels, sometimes referred to as "empties floating by". There is definitely a sense of elitism that accompanies self identification as a believer. It becomes progressively more nuanced and elite, the deeper one becomes involved and committed to the organization.

Hi, Socks. I always thought Hot Tuna was some primo stuff. I have strange tastes, though. Bad chicken, on the other hand, is an aversion I can get behind. Sounds to me like this Momentus gig is some bad chicken, rancid, if you will. Stinky-ola-cola. "Proceed directly to dumpster and pitch it with gusto" kind of stinky.

Thanks, modcat5. I wasn't sure if my comment was relevant. I think I have a better grasp now on what the thread is about.

I'm not really sure what the question is but here is my take on the "TWI experience". What affected me most and continues to affect me to a lesser degree, was not so much what I believe(d), but rather the dynamics of the lifestyle we tried to live. I mean, FellowLaborers was essentially an experiment in the commune lifestyle, using religion as a pretext. (Minus the sex, drugs and Rock and Roll) People are all over the charts on their religious/spiritual beliefs but the thing we all have in common is we tried to live a contrived lifestyle. We were all affected in our own ways, some to a minimal degree, some profoundly. Make no mistake, though, we were all affected.

All too true. Re: going to the Lord in prayer. What we were encouraged to do was recite our lift list while speaking in tongues. In retrospect, it now seems more like we were trying to invoke some sort of magical spell.

We were told to see things in context but far too often the context was defined for us.

Thank you so much for your honesty and candor. I'm glad things are going better for you now.

Take your Sing Along The Way books and turn to #1673 -------------------------------------------------------------- "I don't know about tomorrow I just guess from day to day." (Sing it with feeling.)

Sounds like my kinda deal...a GYM with "no sweat". You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool Mom. Don't even try.

Will there be refreshments?

Now, hold on there. If not for Señor Wences, how would we know everything is alright?

Special thanks going out for restoring the site.

So much of our daily existence has been intertwined with political events, it's become increasingly difficult to know where to draw the line. Fortunately, there seems to be no shortage of other online venues in which to express political frustrations. My personal experience has been that it's a good idea to exercise critical thinking skills and always consider the source when visiting such sites. Also, it helps to look at several sources and be on alert for examples of flawed logic and logical fallacies.

,Hello and welcome, pleroo. First, allow me to offer condolences on the loss of your sister. Kudos for the way you handled the funeral arrangements. As for who has a presence in the Houston area, I'm not knowledgeable of that area at all. I'm fairly certain there are people here who are, though. I can't tell you where the money goes. If they operate anything like TWI did, you can be sure it doesn't go to feed the hungry or clothe the poor. The general rule on names is that it's best, for legal reasons, to semi-redact peoples names in a way that people here will understand who it is but it won't bring up results with an internet search. For example: John Smith becomes something like J*%n Sm!tH. Upper echelon people like VP Wierwille and the like are pretty much fair game, though. Of course, if your reason for stating a name is innocuous, such as looking for an old friend, then that doesn't apply. Someone will probably be around shortly to get you a complimentary cup of coffee and a piece of pie.

O.K, I'm going to jump off the crazy end of the pool here. Several years ago, I worked with a lady who is a lesbian and has been in a committed relationship for 30+ years. We got to know each other pretty well but I always felt like I had to be careful with what I said to her because one of those nasty, old debuhl spurts was always listening to what I said. It embarrasses me now to think about how silly the whole thing was. Fortunately, we're still friends, at least in a face book kind of sense and exchange FB posts frequently..

Ditto for FellowLaborers. There was a clause in the agreement that specifically stated that marital status could not change while in the program. "Rules for thee, but not for me"....VPW

This is an interesting topic and certainly worthy of discussion. I think, however, it may be better suited for the doctrinal forum. I say this only because Way doctrines are heavily invested in the idea that this and many other characteristics, such as alcoholism, cancer, mental illness and a whole slew of others, are the result of devil spirit possession. So, I think you can predict how this topic may or may not unfold. I'll go out on a limb here and openly state that, not only do I not believe these items are a product of devil possession, I simply no longer believe in the existence of devil spirits. Oops! Did I just accidentally steer us toward the doctrinal forum? My bad.