Allan

Thought for the day....I know VP was everything people express here (and probably worse )....but I cant help thinking that without the VP's and the Kenneth Copelands and Joel ( mr. plastic} Osteen and Joyce Meyers and yes, even the Benny ( am I still married ) Hinn's...whether Christianity today would be almost dead in the water...so droll and lifeless without these marketing gurus ?? I know VP rehashed BG Leonards work, but as someone pointed out, BG Leonard was no evangelist/marketer ! The people mentioned above make/made Gods' Word come alive for a lot of folks, something I think even the honourable Billy Graham would struggle to do today.

And I remember reading years ago that the Sanheddrin council could make exceptions to the 'married' rule, if the man in question was an exceptional figure....

Galen, I seem to remember awhile back in one of your posts you appeared to espouse the thought that it's o.k. for a guy to have multiple wives ? Just wondering if you still ascribe to that thinking...and is that one of the deciding factors in your going back to twi ? Just wondering, coz where I came from, the leadership there now appear to condone having 'concubines'.

so was it a rehash of Christian family & sex class ? mind you, most of us remember nothing about that one either lol

hahahahaha, very good

I think if Galen was to think about it....3 x God has attempted to deliver him from the clutches of malignant evil...be thankful Galen.I remember after we left/asked not to return ( in case we opened our mouths you know to the joe believers back in our country about the corps shennaigans ) we heard one 'story' about the 'joe believers' putting up a new fence for the country co-ord. on his property. Stinking hot day, whilst they toiled heartily, he and his arsesistant ( my bro-in-law btw ) sat in chairs sipping lemonade barking orders lol.Well,the country co-ord. had a bad back ya know !!

doesn't it say even more about the people still trying to cling to the flotsam and jetsam ( spelling ?)

well,we know some of them became adept liars or at best, experts at 'twisting'the truth, all in the name of protecting the 'ministry'.We'll have to catch up for an ale some time :) I heard some of their lies about us,all it did was solidify our decision to leave being the right one. I remember one time bumping into the oirish git in public and the look on his face as he frantically punched his mobile keys ( I presume he was calling for back up ??!! lol.) He looked so full of fear...but then that couldn't be right....could it...?? hahahahahaha

Good God people...we had ADULTERY going on @ Indiana campus family corps !! That's one of the reasons we left...the wife of one of the perpetrators was to told to quit whining about it...why, ? because her husbands parents were h.q. staff :) my wife & I decided if these were the standards, leadership wasn't for us lol

lol...same, I can't even remember the content, but I bet that's where a number of the mini-mogs got ideas in their heads from...fiery darts maybe ?? hmmmnnn.... Hiya twinky btw !!!!

And my point really, was that there are still a lot of 'b' grade ar$% wipes involved in twi ! just because the Galens and Johniams may have met them briefly at ROA or been part way through the corps with them doesn't necessarily make them an expert on how they áre' as a human being ! (with all due respect) beauty being in the eye of the beholder sort of thing.

Oh that was some of the 'nicer' things lol. Me and twinky have got some stories ;) But when you've got an oirishman who fancied himself as the next mogfodat you're gonna have issues hahahaha

Actually, the twi of today reminds me a bit of Al Queida. No real leader in charge, so one has a smattering of rag tag bunches of cells run by former or aspiring leadership with no real direction. A trickle of good intentioned new people that must at some point commit to the 'greater cause' and totally submit to their superiors. All the good people that have listened to Gods'call have gone, seen the light, overcome fear and vamoosed ! Yet you still have some people who have not been able to do the God 'thing' without the confines of twi, so return and pick up where they left off and do their best to convince themselves that it's not all that bad. A bit like we were told by 'leadership' when we left, "you and your spouse are going to have to wake up every morning and lie to yourselves and your kids" ...what a joke

A case in point Galen...I believe you have 'friends' that you probs think are 'nice''great' cat. A people, yet ask twinky or myself what we think of them THROUGH THEIR ACTIONS (past and present )and we would tell a differn't story.I mean, we lived with these people, I'm related to some of these people, so really I guess I'm saying, you don't genosko them...no offence ! I guess maybe if hundreds of people came to the same conclusion about someone it would be more objective ? but then thousands thought Hitler was the bees knees...so maybe it's best to not categorize people at all ??!! interesting topic though....

totally agree waysider ...friends to some...despisers to others !!

So a question here...Is it possible for, say, yourself Galen, to think of someone or others who are in the category Á' classification ( in your mind ) to be absolutely known to be 'B'grade as*hol#$ in someone elses ?

Soooo...what if...s.i.t. IS another name for free vocalisation ? Maybe, possibly, being filled with the holy spirit is a fast, shortcut to it ? Remember the statement, "it is NOT something one does to be saved, but something one CAN do after being saved/born-again/ filled with power from on high." Maybe an 'atheist' and a born-againer free vocalising/s.i.t. is simply a proof that there was/is/will one day again be ONE language ? Maybe for an atheist and an unbelieving believer it is nothing more than a clanging cymbal, but to someone operating agape, it is a powerful weapon ? Maybe they are the same thing BUT with differn't purposes and uses for the user ? ( I'm just in a maybe mood )

My response to the 'naysayers' when I'm out on the streets speaking to them is " I meet a lot of people that cannot s.i.t. ( for whatever reason ) that pooh pooh it, but I meet very few that CAN, that do the same

I actually tried to s.i.t. after the last segment of pfal...and couldn't ??!! then later on that day, on my own & after a beer, I opened my mouth & a few words came out and it 'clicked' for me, sort of like, wooaah, so THAT'S how ya do it, lol

I will definitely look into this 'free vocalization' thing. My initial cynicism of course lends me to think how convenient for satan to come up with a brush aside label like that...hmmnnn. I still haven't had anything scientific or biblical to debunk the number of reasons and benefits for s.i.t. It's a bit like the blind man; "As for this Jesus I'm not sure, but one thing I know. Whereas before I was blind, NOW I see " ! I'm like that with the tongues, couldn't do it before getting saved, NOW I can :) BTW, I don't believe I myself nor a number of genuinely, sincere fellow Christians I hang with, have ever done it out of a prideful heart or mindset, so, again, to make a general sweeping statement like that is not very fair. BTW ( also ) I was brought up JW just to throw a little spanner in the works.

That's what I've always thought, of a truth God is not a respecter of persons, so the line goes ! But yep, after being defamed to family & friends ( behind our backs of course, the guy running our country was/is an a grade coward ) and then having a couple of his goons physically assault me outside my house in front of my kids..I coulda got a bit disillusioned...but a love for God, ability to s.i.t. not to mention being personally present when a young relative was prayed over and sat up immediately from a coma shores up my faith for sure.

I'm happy to agree to disagree !! I just thought it was interesting to note the JW thing, because I am involved in a Christian ministry where we do 'lead' people into speaking in tongues and it seems that former JW's are often the ones that have diffuculty 'manifesting' ??!! Also on a side note, interesting that I have had 'gay' people receive the holy spirit( evidenced by s.i.t.ing !! ) any thoughts or comments appreciated as I do enjoy your posts :P

I can only state that before I received the holy spirit, I could not 'speak in tongues' and after I 'received' I could ! no faking, clear monosyllabic enunciated words I do not understand. Also, Raf, if I remember rightly you originally came from a Jehovah Witness background. JW's vehemently repudiate s.i.t. I wonder if there is just a tad of rose tinted glasses in your exposition ? Perhaps flirting with their church again ? I say this sincerely because for any of us to be influenced by previous twi teachings as you have said would ring true just as much as you may be from your religious background is all.

Hi T-bone..I wouldnt class myself or a number of others as 'non-thinkers' either whilst having been in twi or out of it. I still think for myself and certainly when it comes to 'doctrine'. I would have to say from your way of reasoning that there are numerous trinitarian churches full of 'non-thinkers' as well ! When people say they have a more 'intimate' knowledge of God yet submit to 'trinitarian theology' I still wonder..do they mean God God or Jesus God or HS God or God Jesus ?? (I know what you're saying, doctrine can get in the way of relationship)