cinderpelt

I think anyone can change, with some godly help~ who'd-a-thunk Saul/Paul would be preachin' Jesus Christ as they witnessed Stephen's execution? Stephen's dying prayer had a lot to do with it, imo. He was just following in his Lord's footsteps when , with his dying breath he uttered, "Lay not this sin to their charge" (Acts 7:60) Next thing ya know, Saul's knocked off his high horse by the Lord Himself! I believe it does take participation on the individual's part. That's also where our intercessory prayers come into play, imo. I imagine being a friend of one of those imprisoned or executed under Saul's regime. It had to take some real depth to accept him into the fellowship after what he'd done. ~Cinder

To quote John you are: "Rascal, another verse comes to mind. Psalm 119:11 - thy word have I hid in mine heart that I might not sin against thee. Just how does one hide the word in his heart if one doesn't study the bible? Jesus studied the bible; he quoted it 94 times in the 4 gospels. Paul studied the bible; one of his critics accused him of being mad for it. How do you know we "don't manifest" those characteristics? Do you have PIs following us all around?" I hear the pivotal point in Rascal's comments as echoeing God's position of looking at the heart. If my Bible studies, memorization, ability to define any greek word at any given time is my personal barometer for spirituality, rightness, effectiveness in furthering His kingdom and purposes, or more familiarly, my approval before Him, then I'm in for a rude awakening! BTW, I have had this wake-up call, as Ps. 119:11 was my banner verse for most of my way-days. Didn't keep me from totally missing peoples' hearts and steering them in the wrong direction. I think it is VERY important to have a steady diet of good spiritual food, but in the physical world, if you're not assimilating it properly, things run amuck. ~Cinder

I believe that would be a false prophecy, and as such, according to Deuteronomy, he would be stoned. To death, I mean... Never mind.

In my experience, the possibility of depression, along with any other challenges related to the struggles of life on this fallen planet, carried a stigma, strongly related in TWI doctrine to demonization, etc. (A "staple" explanation for anything going less than the "BEST" in a person's life.) Getting past this stigma is SO important in getting or giving help to someone who is struggling with it. The posts on this thread are very helpful, and well thought out, imo. I seem to keep coming back to a loud and clear, "LOOK AT THE FRUIT!" as I try to figure out the truth, the balance. Rascal and others have shared some very excruciating experiences that occurred when a dear soul was deprived of the Love of God and fed some awful insinuation about it being all their fault. It's a BIG job to represent Christ! I think I understand that better today than I ever have, and hope I understand it way more deeply in days to come. James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. ~Cinder

YIKES!!!!

Wow! I had no idea what was going on in the years before I got involved! Nothin' wrong with steel-cut oats and homemade cheese, mind you, but the legalism even then! Sheesh! I might not've gone in the WC, had I known. I must say, though, that my best friend, who I met the 1st day in the WC, probably hasn't bought a loaf of bread in the past 2 decades. She bakes her own, which has led her on a journey of discovery regarding food and nutrition. She has grown and canned all of the staples she'll need for the next year, and makes cheese in her basement. I'd love to be that self-sufficient. So many projects, so little time. If any of you have a passion for natural foods/nutrition/organic gardening, pm me, and maybe I can help you to connect. ~Cinder

You guys crack me up!

Micro-management at its worst.

I bet it'd get really hard on the outside, and who knows what form the gushy stuff would take? Scary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

~That's what I'm getting at- we know that spiritual evil forces exist, thier fruit is all around us. I've had similar experiences, and boy! that Name above all names is powerful! Quoth WG: I believe that was discerning of spirits. No time to explore, examine or categorize. Just had to move it on down the line. And That's the beauty of the simplicity of faith, and a Father who's watching out for you! ~Cinder

WG~

I'm reminded of being whisked away from the front of the NEW colored TV in the mid- 60's, as "the waves cause cancer. At LEAST 3 feet, dear! You don't want to end up like Grampa!" BTW, glad to say that Grampa lived at least another decade after cobalt treatment! ~Cinder

WG~ Exactly! I started this thread because of the disparity between how this manifestation showed up in doctrine and practice. Somewhere along the way (pun perhaps intended), I lost sight of the fact that God equipped His children to carry out His heart, to bring people closer to Him. Somehow, this one in particular became a means to silence and alienate those who had a different stance than that of the "powers that were." I don't think I ever spoke an accusation of demonization against anyone, but I'm embarrassed to say that I heard plenty and never voiced my misgivings. ~Cinder

Can anyone think of any Scrpitural documentations of God giving revelation about someone's "being possessed" that was just "for their learning", and not followed by deliverance? This doctrine ruined many lives and reputations. Inflated countless egos too! ~Cinder I posted this on another thread, but thought it deserved its own. Seems to me that this twi doctrine sank a lot of ships. I get that Jesus had to step in for the guy whose son was tormented, after the disciples were not successful in setting him free: "Lord, I believe! Help thou mine unbelief!" And Jesus' explanation was, "this kind requires prayer and fasting." I get that King Saul was tormented by an evil spirit, even to the point where he tried to murder David on more than one occasion, but David didn't go around whispering to the second-in-command, or anyone else, "Hey, Saul's packin' some serious demons! We gotta get him outa here!" I've heard plenty of accusations of folks supposedly "packing boat-loads of demons", but it was never about getting said person delivered, only about isolating the person. From what I know of the Bible, the purpose of discerning of spirits is to DEAL with it, on God's behalf, or as Jesus would, and get the person OUT of the clutches of the enemy. ~Cinder

Can anyone think of any Scrpitural documentations of God giving revelation about someone's "being possessed" that was just "for their learning", and not followed by deliverance? This doctrine ruined many lives and reputations. Inflated countless egos too! ~Cinder

Oops! What I meant to say was, "WOW! Great insight, all! Thanks for your contributions to my journey toward autonomy!" ~Cinder

Seems to me, their replies to y'all last December were what became fodder for the lawsuits in the first place. So, can you blame them for not adding to the stockpile? Or, maybe they just have lives that don't include multiple daily visits to the Cafe? Either way, DWBH, take a chill pill, and get your blood pressure checked.

Profound! W&W, Doojable, Agape99, TB and others! As someone mentioned in an earlier post, Stephen was, IMO, following his Lord with his last words on this planet. Who knows where Saul of Tarsus would have ended up, had Stephen not defrocked his own self-interest ("this really sux, and really hurts!") to intercede for the ignorant? Somehow it always gets back to relationship; ours with God and our Lord, Jesus, and with each other, not only IN the Body of Christ, but it is, according to Romans, the goodness and kindness of God that leads to repentance. Takes a lot of wisdom to walk in this age and discern good from evil, truth from error. I'm grateful that God promised wisdom if we ask.

Exactly, Rascal~ Who was it that said, "Those who refuse to learn from the past are destined to repeat it"?

Quoth Rhino: "100 yards is funny, unless it was a remote controlled stick of dynamite ... which would be hilarious ... but I couldn't throw a stick 100 yards ... 100 feet maybe, but not to kill rabbit ... just sayin' ... -------------------- Yeah, it was more than 20 years ago, and maybe it was 100 ft., but either way, to even stalk a rabbit to that close was a "stretch". I remember DSmith (sp?) flung a stick 60 ft. or so and splintered a tree stump. That was our illustration of "how it could be done". With every one of my 105 pounds, it would've had to be within 20 ft. I'm pretty accurate with a .22 though. A LOT less effort! I learned some things that seemed remotely valuable at the time, but I've learned way more in a few episodes of "Man vs. Wild", and it was way less dangerous getting to the Discovery Channel than "hitchin' a ride" to Tinnie. I guess they did their best to come up with something meaningful for us "Gimps". We did dig a 6x6x6 FT hole in the ground to collect condensation from a clear tarp. Unearthed some scorpions! General consensus was that out of the dozen or so of us on the project, 11 would have died of thirst within a week, unless we dug MANY more of them. I did get a "Bow & Drill" Fire going in practice, but as I said, not much help on the duo after 2 days of rain. I actually tried my matches in spite of the ruling, but they were soaked too. My greatest challenge, was as a smoker going 10 days without. I was really up against it, but I didn't kick the habit and join the unhooked generation until it was MY choice, 9 yrs. ago. ~Cinder --------------------

I was sent on "gimp LEAD" my last year in the 13th. The regimen was focused on survival skills, not much climbing, some hiking, and choices were offered, ie., "hike to Capitan", or learn to kill a rabbit with a stick from 100 yds. We WERE required to Aussie Rappell, and were not allowed to use matches for ANY fires. I spent my "duo" in complete dark and cold, though it was early April. This was after the LEAD Accident, my 1st yr., so I was very leary for our safety. The most excruciating thing was getting back, knowing that my fiance' would be shipped out to Gunnison within days, and we got "stuck" in Wichita after walking through severe storms in TX all night. Upon arriving in KS, late, missing supper, being famished, I ate a bunch of rancid peanut butter and spent those next few days tossin' my cookies. But I chalk all this up to the goofy traditions already in place.

Last I heard, Johnny bought MG's Window Biz so the G's could move to Indy. That would be Ft. Myers, FL

If you take a closer look, where did the idea of having forsaken the "household" come from? The "household was erroneously defined by TWI. It was a great epiphany for me, the day I was cruising down a country road with my wee babies in the back seat, and happened upon a local Christian radio Station and was truly edified by the tune I heard. I said out loud, "These are my brothers and sisters in Christ!!!"

Kinda reminded me of "Lawrence Welk" OK- I've given away my age

Seriously, these are some GREAT points on the inner workings. You pointed me to deep considerations of how I ended up where I was until 1987. I remember after being out for several years, having a locksmith who came to fix our back door lock, He "witnessed" to me, and I felt like merely a potential notch in his Bible cover. That was a day of reckoning for me.