GeorgeStGeorge

Let's see if I can do this without resorting to another parable... Oldies' original question, "Should people renounce their beliefs because of other people's (i.e.,the teacher's) sins," has devolved into two: "Were you positively impacted by what you learned (doctrine, if not practice) in TWI?" and "Was VPW an a-hole?" It's quite possible, of course, to answer Yes to both questions. I think I would agree with Oakspear's comment "The sins themselves did not invalidate anything he taught, but they provided an impetus to look at them a little more closely. Wierwille's sins did not make his teaching void in my mind, but they did cause me to reject taking his word on anything. If it was truth I'd find out through another source, not just because VP said so." Oldies, just a thought... instead of telling some of the other posters to "get over it," you might try asking some of them how you could help them "overcome it." George

Not that I agree with everything OM says, but I do sympathize. Let me propose a parable: Suppose I were to write out, longhand, a verbatim copy of the Gospel of Mark and attempted to pass it off as my own account of the life of Jesus Christ. Obviously, I would be a liar. There might be a plethora of other sins and faults of which I could be guilty, as well. But anyone reading "my" account of Jesus's life would have as accurate a version as Mark's gospel. No matter how evil I may be, the Word is still the Word, and will bless those who believe it. Now, how much of VP's doctrine is accurate interpretation is obviously the subject of much debate, but whatever he got right will bless those who believe it. George

I agree with all of you. No, seriously, I believe that there was a difference, not at headquarters but out on the field. Maybe VP did want the military obedience that LCM demanded, but it never showed to the "rank and file," so we went merrily on our ways, fellowshipping and preaching the Word. Oakspear's comment that it was the followers-to-leaders ratio that kept things light is interesting, but I think he puts the cart before the horse. If LCM hadn't gotten so hardnosed, there might still be hundreds of fellowships, even branches, run by non-Corps. I learned a lot from VP's WORDS. Heck, I even learned some good stuff from LCM, when he wasn't ranting about warfare on the moon or microwaves; but I sure enjoyed the warmth of fellowship more in the earlier days. That's what separates TWI-1 from TWI-2, to me. George

SelahV, It's easy to blame God or oneself when bad things happen. Sadly, a lot of TWI teaching made one feel that misfortune was due to lack of believing or lack of fellowship. But then, look at Stephen: he was full of the spirit, boldly preaching the gospel, and receiving a vision of Jesus Christ while he was stoned to death! Not believing? Hardly! Out of fellowship? No way! We live in a world still primarily run by the Devil, and so things don't often go as they should. (Eccl. 9:11,12) Nonetheless, God is still greater, and will give you the deliverance if you let Him. Sometimes, this takes a lot of patience. I'll be praying for you, as well. George P.S.: You might consider posting your needs in the "Prayer Room."

sons??? Hmmm, maybe there's something we don't know . . . Maybe that's why we haven't heard from JP lately. :D--> George

"WayGB" is to The Way Internationsl what "KGB" was to the USSR. Keeping files on everybody, etc. George

Are you thinking of the Castellis? They've been in Spring Branch for a while, though I doubt it's been over 20 years. Sorry I can't help you with any of the other names. George

I've been here since late '81. Are you looking for anyone in particular? George

I wanted to be a chemist since I was in third grade. (Back then, you could get chemistry sets and such without a pile of OSHA paperwork.) I still love it. George

:D--> :D--> :D--> Not quite the response I was preparing, but it will do!! GStG

And there's obviously a LOT more ex-Wayers than "innies"! George

Outandabout, et al., When I first took PFAL, I was always amazed at the stories of deliverance in people's lives. Nothing even close happened to me. (Though, I must admit, Session 1 helped me overcome my dependence on nasal spray. Twenty-six years later, and still spray-free! But I digress. I just wanted to let you know how greatful to God I am that you found deliverance as well, even if you had to get out of TWI to do it. :)--> George

Rascal called this reprehensible; I find it unbelievable. Is this just a WEE bit exaggerated?

Let it go, Oldies. My experience and yours were not the same as Rascal's. I'm sad that she still has that much hurt in her heart, but it's not your place to chastise her for it. George

I have to agree with Oldies, here. Heck, George, I even remember fondly the ROA that Linda let you and me stay in her apartment. Those were good times. The fact that life (and growing up) means having duties and responsibilities doesn't make it bad. I find WordWolf's assessment quite accurate, though, at least from my perspective. Though I voted for the 90's as the last time I thought people were really blessed in Twig, it was more of a slow downhill progression from POP. By the mid-90's, micro-management of lives and fear of leadership outweighed what joy was left. George

jet: Rob Gant seems vaguely familiar, and I do remember the Turners (though I haven't seen any of them in well over a decade). When did you leave Houston? (I've been in the area since '81.) George

Actually, Pat, that HADN'T occured to me. At least trinitarians have a way of explaining Jesus's prayers to God. If you are equating Jesus with the Father, the implication from his prayers is that he was schizophrenic. If you are allowing that Jesus had a God, why not worship Him, instead of Jesus? George

P.S.: The "Friend tracker" forum might be a better place to post! :)--> George

Mustang, I don't know of whom you speak, but I recommend two websites: www.switchboard.com, and http://find.intelius.com/index.php (intelius.com). You may need to shell out $8 for the latter site, but you won't necessarily need to know Kara's married name (in case all you know is a maiden name. Good hunting, George

.If using a dictionary or textbook means "using" its author, then I advocate "using" people, though that wouldn't be in a bad sense, then. I have no idea how doctrine was taught at Emporia, etc., but I've never heard the same authors being quoted by TWI teachers being also slammed by them, so I haven't experienced any hypocrisy in that context George

Hey, Oak.. You actually think that Marvel comics are better than DC. Does that invalidate everything ELSE you believe? :D--> Seriously, I don't apologize for VPW and the evil he wrought. On the other hand, I still believe the keys to biblical interpretation I learned in PFAL BECAUSE THEY MAKE SENSE. And if using those keys makes me conclude something in opposition to TWI teaching, I go by what the keys teach. I could have learned it all from Bullinger's works, but I didn't. I probably would never have HEARD of Bullinger if I hadn't been in TWI. So, to alter the analogy a bit, I've chosen to throw out the hairball that was clogging the drain, but not the bath OR the baby. George

Trinitarians aren't "bad," just mistaken. And many are right on in other areas of doctrine (salvation by grace, etc.). And, since the trinitarians outnumber the one-Godders (unitarian means something else, unfortunately) by a wide margin, it's not surprising that they would have the greatest share of written works. George

After the Flood, God told Noah that he could eat animals as well as vegetables: Genesis 9:3. George

It's also possibloe he recognized the relationship between the words oikonomeia and oikonomos (steward or administrator) nd felt that the word "administration" meant more to modern Christians than "dispensation." (Growing up Roman Catholic, to me "dispensation" meant being allowed to eat meat on Fridays!) George