GeorgeStGeorge

As usual, I didn't find this thread until it was edited, so I have no idea what Exie first intended. But, as usual, that won't stop me from adding my two cents. Exie, don't take everything too seriously. Just seriously enough! ;)--> George

At the risk of spouting "Wayspeak," it's not about feelings, it's about the spirit of God. All the feelings you've expressed -- nervousness, fear, uncertainty -- just mean that you're human; but it doesn't invalidate the truth. If the Bible IS the Word of God, then you CAN speak in tongues, etc. (You also CAN fake it, but why do so? Whom are you trying to impress?) Hooner, if you're still an "innie," (I don't remember) you may have trouble expressing your concerns to your coordinator; but you might give it a shot. Hopefully, he/she will take the time to work with you.Just sitting in a Bible class isn't always enough instruction. (I remember LCM saying that he didn't SIT at the end of PFAL.) As far as the manifestations getting repetitive is concerned, there are two possibilities: people manifesting are just acting out of habit, or maybe God has something to say that nobody's been listening to! :D--> George

Respect for God's name is important, of course; but GOD is His job description, not His name. His full name is given in Ex. 34:6,7, though I guess He's most often called by the abbreviated form, Jehovah. Using God's name is not the same as using it in vain. George

Really? The same can be said for The Odyssey. Raf, You have me there. I guess any writings that people consider very valuable will be transcribed with caution. ;)-->

I was one of the minority who were recruited by strangers "cold witnessing" (not witnessing to friends, family, or co-workers). A couple of college students sat near me at the student union cafeteria and started talking to me about their Bible fellowship. They used some cheesy line to start the conversation, but after that it was pretty up-and-up. I said that I might be interested, so they gave me the address and phone number of the fellowship location. They offered to give me a ride, but I said that I would rather get there on my own. On the night of fellowship, I was planning to watch a Reds game on Monday Night Baseball. When I turned the game on, though, it was a White Sox game, so I decided to go to "that Bible thing." I showed up a little late, and I think they were surprised to see me at all. Fellowship was certainly different from RC Mass, but I found it interesting. The speaking in tongues was certainly new. I enjoyed it enough to begin attending regularly. Soon afterwards, there was a "public explanation" of the class after a fellowship. There was not a lot of pressure; they simply played an audio recording of the first hour of PFAL. It sounded good to me, so I signed up. (The class cost $100 at that time.) As is probaly clear from some of my other posts, I found the class and fellowship to be worthwhile. That's why I witnessed to others. George

and wouldn't that just be the end of the world. Not the end of the world, no. Just like Judges 21:19.

Refiner, It might be apparent to you by now that a lot of Wierwille's writings were derivative of E.W. Bullinger's. If you have the time, I strongly recommend Bullinger's How to Enjoy the Bible. Another of his books, Figures of Speech in the Bible, is an exhaustive (and exhausting :)-->) work, but full of little doctrinal gems. Considering Goey and Trefor's comments, I admit I have no way to defend the present canon, per se. I've read the Old Testament apochryphal (or "deuterocanonical") books, and found little to conflict with the canonical books. I'm sure the inconsistencies I did find could be "worked." The New Testament apochrypha that I've read were just bizarre. As to God giving His revelation exactly, I see no reason to consider that "untenable." That the scriptures have become only slightly corrupted over centuries of transcription is, in my opinion, evidence of His hand in guarding His Word. My question is still, if you don't believe all of it, why do you believe what you do?

What impressed me most was the basic fundamentalist principle, which I first heard in PFAL: If the Bible IS the Word of God, given by revelation, then in its original form, it must be inerrant. There can be no internal inconsistencies. I still choose to believe this. If it's not true, then anybody's opinion about anything is as good as anybody else's, and the Bible is just literature. Of course, there are apparent inconsistencies, and so these must be explained. (To whom was a scripture addressed? What were the circumstances? Do different texts have variant readings? All these things must be considered.) Though not a Hebrew scholar, I learned to read Greek in high school (something of value from my Roman Catholic upbringing); and in almost every case, I found VPW's analyses of New Testament Greek to be correct. (There are a couple of verses in 1 Cor. that seem wrong, but nothing that invalidates the premise of the manifestations of holy spirit being available to every Christian.) So, unlike the other George, I don't feel that I blindly accepted dogma. I agree that VPW, shall we say, insufficiently footnoted his work; but if he plagiarized correct biblical interpretation principles, that doesn't invalidate the principles. Refiner, draw your own conclusions about the work. Being "undersheperded" by gainsayers is no less intimidating than by believers. George St. George

To follow up one of Ex10's comments, I also think that when times were sweet in fellowship, we enjoyed the music more. Of course, when the music all became "This Week's Lesson -- AGAIN" fellowship wasn't as much fun. (It's a chicken/egg thing.) ;)-->

Interesting analogy, M3C, though I think there's a difference in heart between witnessers and spammers. At least the witnessers have the guts (and take the time) to meet you face to face. George

I don't know if this actually fits in this thread, but it is a memory of being witnessed to. I was a TC, just beginning a fellowship in which I had planned to teach on the redemptive names of God. I started by playing Kenneth Copeland's recording of "He Is Jehovah." (Back then, I could get away with that.) Anyway, who should come to the door at that moment but two JW's! We had a brief conversation about the name Jehovah; they handed me a Watchtower and went on their way. I'm sure that was God's sense of humor. :D--> :D--> :D--> George

I enjoyed a lot of the music. I liked the Victors' first tape, and Bob Stanley's 50's rock songs were a lot of fun. But I think my two favorites were "The Resurrection Song" by Good Seed and "We Shall All Be Changed" by the choir. George

Hooner, As opposed to WayferNot, who likens her separation from TWI to her divorce, to me it was more like the deaths of my parents. There is a great deal of remorse initially, but later you remember the good things and let the bad go. If you learned a great deal of good things from TWI, hold onto them. Don't "throw out the baby with the bath," as the other George is wont to do. (Of course, "Resident Curmudgeon" is a tough job!) George St. George

Trefor: I've read them. And I've read Romans 1, too. George

I suppose that if you believe that Trinitarianism, homosexuality, and other forms of idolatry are fine, then I can see why you might object to Tom Burke's songs. (God had no problem with ridiculing idolatry -- take a look at 1 Kings 18.) Of course, maybe it's those doctrines that drove some of you out of TWI, anyway. What annoyed me the most were songs whose lyrics were changed to be more "accurate," in the process ruining the rhyme and/or meter. And often the "corrected" versions were no more Biblically correct than the original.

Heck, I'd go back if TWI ever became the way I remember it. (Of course, the way I remember it is not the way it actually WAS...) George

I remember listening to a SNS tape (1997 or so) in which LCM mentioned that after a Corps night teaching, someone in the Corps called him to point out an error. LCM then admitted that he made an error! As I recall, it was something rather trivial. What bothered me most was that only ONE Corps person mentioned it to him. I guess all the others were a.) spiritually asleep; b.) afraid of LCM; c.) trying to make the new "revelation" fit; or d.) all of the above.

I miss Twig (at least as it was until the 90's), where we could enjoy each other's company and pray for each other and teach each other. I miss seeing someone's eyes light up when it hits them how big God's love is for them. I also miss some of my old friends. When I got kicked out, I didn't want any of them to get into trouble, so I fell out of contact. Now I call, if I can find them. Most can, and want to, speak with me, even the "innies." George

PFAL 77 was a year before my time, but I believe teh Bible thumper was Jed Smock. He used to "preach" at the University of Illinois when I was there, and I recall someone saying they saw him at TWI headquarters. George

Her other son is Gavin. Suz, do let us know if you find her. I haven't talked with her in over five years, but I'd love to know how she's doing. George

Back to the thread... When I first took PFAL (1978), it was my first real introduction to the Bible. As a scientist, the fundamentalist logic really appealed to me. (Still does, by the way.) Plus, Twig fellowship was fun, and no one "made" me do anything. :)--> I was able to resist the "nudgings" over the next several years to go WOW or Way Corps. It was stil assumed that one could have a secular job and still move the Word. I was a TC for several years in the Houston area when classes were running back to back, and Twigs were growing. Leadership (at least from the Limb down) was loving, though the pressure to keep up the pace was wearing a lot of believers out. --> LCM took over. Wouldn't have been my choice, but I saw the need for a dynamic leader, and he certainly was THAT. Then came all the schisms. I chose to stay with TWI because I thought that any problems would be resolved from within. --> By the mid-90's there were no other believers close to me, so I started attending another Twig about 40 miles away. It was about that time that every aspect of my life was being scrutinized. Most troubling was the BC's insistence that I sell my house so I could move closer to Twig. I'm glad I resisted, becase that Twig was merged with another shortly thereafter, and I would have had to move again! Now the keys to Biblical research were being used to "prove" things that clearly weren't Biblical, and Twig was less and less fun. And I had fewer friends who were still in. :(--> But I hung in there. Fear? Pride? Optimism? Probably a little of each. I hung in there until they tossed me out.

The point of the guardian angel stuff was that once you got born again, you don't need a guardian angel, because you have a direct link with God via His spirit. the doctrine was derived from Heb. 1:14, saying that angels were to minister to those who would become heirs of salvation, not those who already were. And I think the teaching began with VPW, not LCM. (My God, have I become an apologist for Loy?)

Ex: see Jim's post. OSC was a pretty huge warehouse, with some office space, as I recall.

Ex: see Jim's post. OSC was a pretty huge warehouse, with some office space, as I recall.

Quoth Jim: "EOB - Executive Office Building, where the higher-ups had their offices along with accounting and legal." I always remembered the EOB as the Ermal Owens Building (Ermal being the first VP of The Way). The name was probably changed during the "de-Wierwilleization" of TWI.