GeorgeStGeorge

This thread could go on forever. I haven't posted anything lately because it's taken all my free time just to catch up! :)--> Speaking FOR MYSELF, what I believe from TWI (PFAL, et al.), I believe, not becuse VPW or any of the others was such a charmer, but because it makes sense to me and fits with the Bible. What I do not believe from TWI, I do not believe, not because VPW or the others were stinkers, but because it either doesn't make sense or contradicts the Bible. I, personally, have not been so injured that I look back at my TWI years with disgust. Neither do I know anyone personally who has been so injured. But that doesn't mean that there aren't those out there who WERE so injured. I grieve for you who were. But, as should be obvious by now, there are those who still hold much (or all?) that they learned from TWI in high esteem. They should not be considered "ignorant" or "blinded" for that. Neither should those who consider the balance (or all?) of their TWI experience as loss. We all have different experiences and should respect each other in that light. If we can't "call the game," at least play nice. George

A "boot" is a nickname for a new military recruit (in boot camp). You just need to interpret a word according to its LCM usage! ;)--> George

That's swell, Exie; but if you don't care about the Bible, why do you believe God had a Son? --> George

Man, this one is popular! Six people jumped in while I was writing my last post! THIS one will probably wind up on p.5! George

Geo: For that matter, if there is no God, where does "free will" enter in? We're all just a bunch of molecules following laws of physics "from the foundation of the world." Even my typing this was determined by the Big Bang, or colliding universes, or whatever. George

Oldies, Hopefully, when you consider her words, you'll come to realize that CW was REALLY HURT. I know that no one of my personal acquaintances in TWI endured what some of the GSers have. I expect that that's been your experience, too. But I have no reason to doubt the truth of the accusations, because no one here has anything to gain by lying. Keep the Word that you've been taught. Keep the memories of good times in fellowship. But don't dismiss those who do not. What would TWI have to have done to you to make you renounce it all? That's what happened to CW and the others. See it from that perspective, and have some compassion. It doesn't mean you'll "lose" this debate. Some of the posts at GS break my heart. :(--> George

RG, It's Ex. 32:7-14. It's reminiscent of two parents arguing over a misbehaving child. ("Do you know what YOUR son did today?") :)--> George

Prov. 10:22 George

Let's see if I can do this without resorting to another parable... Oldies' original question, "Should people renounce their beliefs because of other people's (i.e.,the teacher's) sins," has devolved into two: "Were you positively impacted by what you learned (doctrine, if not practice) in TWI?" and "Was VPW an a-hole?" It's quite possible, of course, to answer Yes to both questions. I think I would agree with Oakspear's comment "The sins themselves did not invalidate anything he taught, but they provided an impetus to look at them a little more closely. Wierwille's sins did not make his teaching void in my mind, but they did cause me to reject taking his word on anything. If it was truth I'd find out through another source, not just because VP said so." Oldies, just a thought... instead of telling some of the other posters to "get over it," you might try asking some of them how you could help them "overcome it." George

Not that I agree with everything OM says, but I do sympathize. Let me propose a parable: Suppose I were to write out, longhand, a verbatim copy of the Gospel of Mark and attempted to pass it off as my own account of the life of Jesus Christ. Obviously, I would be a liar. There might be a plethora of other sins and faults of which I could be guilty, as well. But anyone reading "my" account of Jesus's life would have as accurate a version as Mark's gospel. No matter how evil I may be, the Word is still the Word, and will bless those who believe it. Now, how much of VP's doctrine is accurate interpretation is obviously the subject of much debate, but whatever he got right will bless those who believe it. George

I agree with all of you. No, seriously, I believe that there was a difference, not at headquarters but out on the field. Maybe VP did want the military obedience that LCM demanded, but it never showed to the "rank and file," so we went merrily on our ways, fellowshipping and preaching the Word. Oakspear's comment that it was the followers-to-leaders ratio that kept things light is interesting, but I think he puts the cart before the horse. If LCM hadn't gotten so hardnosed, there might still be hundreds of fellowships, even branches, run by non-Corps. I learned a lot from VP's WORDS. Heck, I even learned some good stuff from LCM, when he wasn't ranting about warfare on the moon or microwaves; but I sure enjoyed the warmth of fellowship more in the earlier days. That's what separates TWI-1 from TWI-2, to me. George

SelahV, It's easy to blame God or oneself when bad things happen. Sadly, a lot of TWI teaching made one feel that misfortune was due to lack of believing or lack of fellowship. But then, look at Stephen: he was full of the spirit, boldly preaching the gospel, and receiving a vision of Jesus Christ while he was stoned to death! Not believing? Hardly! Out of fellowship? No way! We live in a world still primarily run by the Devil, and so things don't often go as they should. (Eccl. 9:11,12) Nonetheless, God is still greater, and will give you the deliverance if you let Him. Sometimes, this takes a lot of patience. I'll be praying for you, as well. George P.S.: You might consider posting your needs in the "Prayer Room."

sons??? Hmmm, maybe there's something we don't know . . . Maybe that's why we haven't heard from JP lately. :D--> George

"WayGB" is to The Way Internationsl what "KGB" was to the USSR. Keeping files on everybody, etc. George

Are you thinking of the Castellis? They've been in Spring Branch for a while, though I doubt it's been over 20 years. Sorry I can't help you with any of the other names. George

I've been here since late '81. Are you looking for anyone in particular? George

I wanted to be a chemist since I was in third grade. (Back then, you could get chemistry sets and such without a pile of OSHA paperwork.) I still love it. George

:D--> :D--> :D--> Not quite the response I was preparing, but it will do!! GStG

And there's obviously a LOT more ex-Wayers than "innies"! George

Outandabout, et al., When I first took PFAL, I was always amazed at the stories of deliverance in people's lives. Nothing even close happened to me. (Though, I must admit, Session 1 helped me overcome my dependence on nasal spray. Twenty-six years later, and still spray-free! But I digress. I just wanted to let you know how greatful to God I am that you found deliverance as well, even if you had to get out of TWI to do it. :)--> George

Rascal called this reprehensible; I find it unbelievable. Is this just a WEE bit exaggerated?

Let it go, Oldies. My experience and yours were not the same as Rascal's. I'm sad that she still has that much hurt in her heart, but it's not your place to chastise her for it. George

I have to agree with Oldies, here. Heck, George, I even remember fondly the ROA that Linda let you and me stay in her apartment. Those were good times. The fact that life (and growing up) means having duties and responsibilities doesn't make it bad. I find WordWolf's assessment quite accurate, though, at least from my perspective. Though I voted for the 90's as the last time I thought people were really blessed in Twig, it was more of a slow downhill progression from POP. By the mid-90's, micro-management of lives and fear of leadership outweighed what joy was left. George

jet: Rob Gant seems vaguely familiar, and I do remember the Turners (though I haven't seen any of them in well over a decade). When did you leave Houston? (I've been in the area since '81.) George