Rocky

I love the idea for this subforum. It can provide a space for alternate views of how people develop a walk/life of satisfaction and fulfillment regardless of which view they take regarding God. Thanks Socks for bringing this up. My initial thoughts go to James 1. 2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters,[a] whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faithproduces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 9 Believers in humble circumstances ought to take pride in their high position. 10 But the rich should take pride in their humiliation—since they will pass away like a wild flower. 11 For the sun rises with scorching heatand withers the plant; its blossom falls and its beauty is destroyed. In the same way, the rich will fade away even while they go about their business. 12 Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him. 13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 19 My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, 20 because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires. 22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do. 26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. -------- I'm NOT of the mind that any of this suggests that when a person gets "saved" that can be reversed or lost. But "faith without works" is worthless in this life, as far as I'm concerned. Not that it's MY place to judge that for anyone but my own life. Selah!

Or Facebook or Twitter for that matter.

Just curious there, DWBH, how recent was your last training session in the legal field, and did any of that training refer to reading into other people's motives when you have no in person contact with the people? And are you engaged in delivering necessary and proper PROFESSIONAL healthcare to anyone by way of GSC? thank you.

Touché. Well, I didn't have or claim preeminence. But I still think your questioning of Skyrider's claim was outrageous.

Seriously? Who are you to call anyone posting on GSC a liar? That comment seems extraordinarily arrogant. Did anyone encourage you to go to God in prayer?

Kewl mahn! Btw, I dig "The Obstacle is the way." I never gave any thought to Stoic philosophy until this summer... then I read a book that made a lot of sense... titled, The Obstacle is the way (by Ryan Holiday). Cool book.

Your intended meaning was unclear. Please clarify.

Well, that right there tells us a lot about the experience we had in TWI.

What????

Hoping for a good outcome for you.

Perhaps all because -- even though he saw it in the scripture -- he failed at the two greatest commandments. Didn't he define that kind of thing as idolatry? It's probably also tied directly (btwn any given person's ears) to failure to maintain humility.

Vivid description of a livid eruption of ego. A monumental lack of poise. A person not overwhelmed with insecurity might have regained the moment and reset the desired mood simply by laughing it off.

Oh, thanks WW. Hopefully Mark S will ratify (or not) your interpretation.

I wonder what might have happened if Wierwille actually had loved people just because rather than for what they could do for him.

Do you have any evidence that anyone in the 21st Century actually KNOWS whether the devil did appear literally as a dragon anywhere to anyone?

Please clarify the question.

I just read that 40-year old letter again. What struck me (slapped me in the face) this time was that Wierwille said, "I love you for who you are." Oooops, that's not it, instead he actually wrote, "I love you for the privilege and responsibility you have." What was that "privilege?" As he taught (indoctrinated) H.I.S. way corpse, the privilege was having been called to be "doulos." Literally a slave. One who no longer has freedom to make her/his own life choices. Of course, in the indoctrination, it was slave to God. In practice, it was slave to Wierwille and his successors. The reward for the slave? To serve the earthly master on the basis of a bass-ackward interpretation of what leadership is supposed to be... and what Wierwille and successors could con you into believing you'd get at the "Bema." When you stood before God for rewards in heaven. Not unlike the mythical 70 virgins another religion promised for heinous acts of terrorism.

If Adam was Eve's "husband" (and Eve was Adam's "wife") who performed the wedding ceremony? I pose that as a serious question. To me, the Judeo-Christian creation story is just that, a story. In my comment from July 4, maybe I was using the wrong words but I was trying to say that I believe the creation story is not something we can get "a more accurate" understanding of the dynamics involved (because it wasn't the creation science, it was a STORY) by studying the Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic words. It was a freakin' story for God's sake. It was meant, not altogether unlike Greek or Roman or Norse mythology to convey concepts in terms humankind could understand. Wierwille was a con man, he wasn't a messenger from God.

1) Ryan Holiday recently wrote a book, "Ego is the Enemy," which is jam packed with insight and historical records which expand on the concept of pride causing people to fail. 2) Rosalie had the dirt on Loy. Even if he had tried to oust her, he was infinitely more vulnerable. 3) To me, your theory on how Martindale developed his mania regarding homosexuality seems inherently plausible. But not everyone agrees.

Indeed. In terms of scholarship, this particular "theory," that Adam was the real serpent, completely misses the notion of that narrative actually being a creation story. I don't buy the original understanding as having literal aspects that could reasonably be parsed in a manner like the bastardization of biblical study into which we were indoctrinated by twi. It seems to me that in order to even approach taking seriously that Adam was the real serpent one has to buy into the idea that humanity was so freaking incompetent at recording it's creation myths/stories, that it would miss figuring out who Adam really was. That's extremely implausible.

I'm pretty sure Lloyd reads GSC from time to time. Maybe he'll see his name on the front page with this thread.

There is possibility that if you let us know who spoke at your sister's funeral, people here might have some idea about the background for his group. Like Waysider, I offer my condolences on the loss of your sister. I lost my brother to heart disease when he was 36, so I have some idea how traumatic this has been for you and your family.

Here's one a friend mentioned last night... Martin Lucifer King Jr. How terribly manipulative was that? Build up walls to keep cult members from honoring or even recognizing the good in and of one of the most significant historical figures of our (well, for Boomers anyway) lifetime.

What did you see pop up on your phone? Something about a Dave Patterson?

From the story linked in my previous comment: However much they might dislike Scientology, its jargon is their native tongue. Some even say it’s a relief to talk without code-switching, or worrying that they’re talking gibberish. There’s a reason why the language is so central to the belief system, and so hard to shake. According to psychiatrist and thought-reform expert Robert Jay Lifton, new lexicons are common in cults — and often essential. He calls the practice “loading the language,” and includes it as one of eight core features of high-demand groups. When the group breaks to smoke, I ask Shelton for a second opinion. Forget the question of emotional repression for a second. If there are words for these feelings already, why not use them? “It makes us feel special and unique,” he jokes. “If we used regular English words, then anyone could do this!” But he agrees with Lifton’s idea of cult idioms as thought-terminating cliches. “It gets people thinking in the cult leader’s system,” he says. “It literally makes it harder to think outside the box.” Dr. Matthews agrees, pointing out that many high-demand groups have jargon around emotional repression. Some fundamentalist Christian cults use the phrase “keep sweet,” she says, meaning “stop whining, stop complaining.” She adds, “Jargon like that rewires the brain.”