Rocky

Of course he won't tell people unless they ask. His ministry is about him, not about wierwille.

[Actually, it wasn't TLC that said it, it was "Duke Baxter." I just quoted from TLC's post.] Really? Not one iota of that post smacks of real anything to me... except something that would be impolite to articulate. It's not often I agree with TLC, but on this point I certainly do. Further, I don't see where either JAL or Osteen are humble. But maybe I'm just not looking in the right place.

That's all well and good... but that wasn't the question.

Carry on.

I don't agree with John Lynn's take on the bible or religion, but who are we to tell him he can't live according to what he sees as his life's calling? That's his call, not yours or mine.

It would intrigue me if we could also get TWI to answer the question (the official line) and then further parse it out (even beyond the gracious answers from T-Bone, Waysider, and Skyrider) with the experience of current and more of the former followers of the sect.

Does this AMA (reddit's version of this thread) allow people who are not logged into GSC to post a question?

Ooooh! Count me in... (j/k)

I love the idea for this subforum. It can provide a space for alternate views of how people develop a walk/life of satisfaction and fulfillment regardless of which view they take regarding God. Thanks Socks for bringing this up. My initial thoughts go to James 1. 2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters,[a] whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faithproduces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 9 Believers in humble circumstances ought to take pride in their high position. 10 But the rich should take pride in their humiliation—since they will pass away like a wild flower. 11 For the sun rises with scorching heatand withers the plant; its blossom falls and its beauty is destroyed. In the same way, the rich will fade away even while they go about their business. 12 Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him. 13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 19 My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, 20 because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires. 22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do. 26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. -------- I'm NOT of the mind that any of this suggests that when a person gets "saved" that can be reversed or lost. But "faith without works" is worthless in this life, as far as I'm concerned. Not that it's MY place to judge that for anyone but my own life. Selah!

Or Facebook or Twitter for that matter.

Just curious there, DWBH, how recent was your last training session in the legal field, and did any of that training refer to reading into other people's motives when you have no in person contact with the people? And are you engaged in delivering necessary and proper PROFESSIONAL healthcare to anyone by way of GSC? thank you.

Touché. Well, I didn't have or claim preeminence. But I still think your questioning of Skyrider's claim was outrageous.

Seriously? Who are you to call anyone posting on GSC a liar? That comment seems extraordinarily arrogant. Did anyone encourage you to go to God in prayer?

Kewl mahn! Btw, I dig "The Obstacle is the way." I never gave any thought to Stoic philosophy until this summer... then I read a book that made a lot of sense... titled, The Obstacle is the way (by Ryan Holiday). Cool book.

Your intended meaning was unclear. Please clarify.

Well, that right there tells us a lot about the experience we had in TWI.

What????

Hoping for a good outcome for you.

Perhaps all because -- even though he saw it in the scripture -- he failed at the two greatest commandments. Didn't he define that kind of thing as idolatry? It's probably also tied directly (btwn any given person's ears) to failure to maintain humility.

Vivid description of a livid eruption of ego. A monumental lack of poise. A person not overwhelmed with insecurity might have regained the moment and reset the desired mood simply by laughing it off.

Oh, thanks WW. Hopefully Mark S will ratify (or not) your interpretation.

I wonder what might have happened if Wierwille actually had loved people just because rather than for what they could do for him.

Do you have any evidence that anyone in the 21st Century actually KNOWS whether the devil did appear literally as a dragon anywhere to anyone?

Please clarify the question.

I just read that 40-year old letter again. What struck me (slapped me in the face) this time was that Wierwille said, "I love you for who you are." Oooops, that's not it, instead he actually wrote, "I love you for the privilege and responsibility you have." What was that "privilege?" As he taught (indoctrinated) H.I.S. way corpse, the privilege was having been called to be "doulos." Literally a slave. One who no longer has freedom to make her/his own life choices. Of course, in the indoctrination, it was slave to God. In practice, it was slave to Wierwille and his successors. The reward for the slave? To serve the earthly master on the basis of a bass-ackward interpretation of what leadership is supposed to be... and what Wierwille and successors could con you into believing you'd get at the "Bema." When you stood before God for rewards in heaven. Not unlike the mythical 70 virgins another religion promised for heinous acts of terrorism.