Rocky

I don't know anything about Petitte (other than the Dbacks beat him in the 2001 WS) and I don't know what Clemens is saying... but I'd bet Clemens is lying, no matter what he's saying. I've felt for a long time that he's got a cheaters' mentality. :blink: And the Dbacks picked up Dan Haren today! An excellent move, IMO.

And, especially for the sake of teenagers now and in the decades to come... make major examples of the cost of using... in every way that cost can be portrayed.

I like those ideas. Yet, I don't think background checks on "clubbies" will put a stop to anything. Tracking packages, however, could be helpful... but I'm thinking that guys with lots of spending money and mischief on their minds can find plenty of ways around that too... can you say "Mailboxes, Etc."?

I hope you're right on that.

If Fehr has his way, this WILL be all for naught. That's more or less what I expected. Hiway... it won't be nearly as bad for the named players as you suspect... One day of weeping and gnashing of teeth and a life time of sweeping (under rugs). And I don't know what Selig's going to be able to do... that could have simply been first day bluster... the union's going to go to bat for any of them that face any repercussions from the league... and that alone WILL obscure the issues. BUT... IF they do blood testing, then we can say they will have made progress. The most significant thing that needed (still needs) to get addressed is the cultural impact on youth wanting to develop themselves into professional athletes. THAT youths feel they can and should do steroids has got to change.

Was that Dizzy Dean (not to be confused with Howard! ) and guys who played in that era? btw, Mr. Corked Bat (Sammy), though not mentioned in the report, is thought to be a steroid user, I think...?

What the report does is use the names of guys they had somebody provide evidence on. Like with Dbacks' Alex Cabrera... it doesn't say "he used steroids" but does say that the team intercepted a package, told Cabrera the package had gotten lost, sent the contents to the DEA for analysis, and this is what they found in the package. But before the DEA could report, Cabrera was playing in Japan, so they didn't bother asking the union for permission to test him. It seems there's a lot of that kind of thing. Which boils down to circumstantial evidence against individuals, but so many incidents that the case is made that the entire culture of MLB is saturated with steroids. btw, I took a nap... so, I didn't listen to Bud or Donald.

That was my initial reaction to seeing Pujols name... he's supposed to be one of the good guys... however, he did have a hard time last season... perhaps due to coming off of steroids. I'm not sure Giamatti would have been able to do any different than what we've seen. Fay Vincent, wasn't he forced out to make room for Selig? I read last night in the NYTimes that Vincent had wanted to try to do something about steroids... I'll be very interested in what he might have to say in the next days...

I searched the report for the word Arizona and came up with several names. It's also likely that many big names NOT in the report are cheaters even though not in the report. And some of the names are associated with steroids and some only with HGH. I'm not making the distinction yet. Arizona names: Jason Grimsley P Jack Cust 1B, has played in the majors, but was in the Dbacks farm system Chris Donnels inf played for several teams, never really made a consistent career, but did play some games for the Dbacks. Stephen Randolph P played a season or two with the Dbacks... mainly a reliever... eventually was traded... may not be playing anymore. Matt Herges P few games with Dbacks... many more games with other teams. Troy Glaus 3B one season with Dbacks... wasn't he WS MVP one year? went to Toronto after Dbacks. Jose Guillen OF very little time with Dbacks... later played with Seattle. and of course, Matt Williams. Again, this is only a very limited set of findings on individuals... but clear evidence of a pervasive drug culture in MLB. I also understand the players union will soon have a press conference, as will MLB. And Tom, I'm not in denial about Dbacks using steroids or HGH... My comment last night was simply a reflection that there's no obvious power hitter getting significant advantage via steroids currently on the team... obviously, that doesn't mean there's no current users. Mitchell bluntly replied to a reporter asking about whether he was prepared to respond to subpeonas, by saying there is no evidence that any federal prosecutor has or will go after any individual user... Mitchell recommends NO punishment for those cited in his report. Those PLAYERS named in the report, that is.

I got the .pdf file... it's a total of 409 pages. There is NO one single list page with player names. I did find one interesting item in it so far. In 2000, a long time minor leaguer, Alex Cabrera, played 31 games with the Dbacks. He his a MASSIVE HR in his first major league at bat. It always caused me to wonder why this guy didn't stay with the team. He went on to become a major HR hitter in Japan. He is named as a person who had steroids shipped to him at the BOB. Apparently, in at least one incident, such a shipment was intercepted by the team which reported it to the league and sent the drugs to the DEA for analysis. The package apparently included over the counter diet pills AND injectable steroids. Apparently, Matt Williams is named in the report, but I have not found that yet... and apparently, Luis Gonzales is NOT included. But Juan Gonzales IS named. Anyway, I have the Mitchell press conference on ESPN on my tv right now... it's in the Q and A stage... It looks like Clemens is going to be a primary focus of media questions and subsequent reports.

The report has not yet been officially released and there are already reports that Clemens (duh!), Pettitte, Pujols and Veritek are on the list.

NYTimes is already reporting that the Mitchell report will be harshly critical of both Selig and the players' union... and will expose a deep rooted drug culture... My hunch is there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth tomorrow, and plenty of what we saw in AZ a couple months ago when Matt Williams name came up regarding HGH... basically a lot of rationalizing BS in attempts to minimize the problem and quiet down the chatter as soon as possible, in hopes that the issue will go away. That's my belief right now and I'm sticking to it. What the ultimate change in the situation will be... as little change as both sides can get away with.

If it includes former players especially. Indeed, there were minor leaguers suspended for steroids last summer...

Charles Barkley? If the list is going to be heavy on power hitters, the Dbacks might not get dinged... but then again, the now retired Matt Williams was implicated a few months ago... but that might have "just" been for using HGH. I can't imagine that Barry will be left off the list.

Isn't THAT where rhino gets HIS "inspiration" too" (j/k)

How come they didn't save us from Bush/Cheney...er, SADAAM and Al Qaida? ...oops, sorry, strike that last... don't want this to have to be transferred to the politics forum!

Exactly... since the prefix "mal" means BAD. I never really bought into the notion that we'd need emergency supplies... and this, btw, is hardly unique to twi. My ex succumbed to the prosyletizing of the mormons while we were engaged in divorce litigation. She was taught to keep a year's worth of food and other stuff on hand in case of some unforeseen catastrophy. Until Katrina, I just thought that was nuts. I don't think it's nuts any more... but I still don't have that kind of provision on hand.

Yes, it's amazing what ridding one's self of stress can do for one's health.

I understand the Dbacks are in that race... but I don't know how serious they are...

Do you have sons playing baseball? Do YOU still think you can play? A former MLB pitcher has developed a new and improved CUP, and I don't mean for spitting your tobacco juice into... Check out the YouTube video... this is a REAL product... watch the guy take one in the nuts! And he doesn't even flinch.

Which I HOPE he will! Don't forget that the NL West has strong pitching on all or most of the teams.

Great pic!

And the tap dancing... and the muscleman poses... If it weren't a funny parody... it would be most WIERD!

That's a good link Belle... thank you. And Jonny, in case you know who Sunesis is... she IS registered at the other site, so, if you want to talk to her about it, you can try both places. btw, I too was on the receiving end of a couple of Wierwille's tirades at Emporia, as I worked on A/V part of the year during corps nights and other such evening meetings. He WAS mean. I know that FIRST hand.

And Groucho... and But Now I See... and/or others who would be eligible to go there... IF you have no personal desire to find any old friends, I can see how you'd have no use for the site... but I enjoy it for the reasons stated. Period.