Rocky

I agree, Socks. And then I'd play some Michael Franks music for him... because I've got One Bad Habit! (the CD).

I took care of that typo for you wRonG...

However, it IS typical of his blather.

You were ASKING, right? Bickley -- getting umps to speed up the game Well, he IS always smiling, isn't he?

Within one 12 month period, beginning with last October... technically. Perhaps we should ask Scott McClellan -- What Happened?

Indeed. btw, that specific news copy (text) has been carried by numerous online news outlets (Associated Press), as opposed to being a Fox News exclusive (even though the link provided by rhino is to Fox News).

Depends on which government. The US federal govt.? No, I don't think so. Arizona state government, at least in some kinds of situations, yes.

Even though it's a tangent, yes, indeed, most of life's hard questions require complex thinking and diligent inquiry.

Duh! Like it hasn't happened before?!?

Clearly, Texas law regarding child abuse and severance of family relationships does NOT cover the kind of situation that those kids were in. Texas law, probably like many other (most?) states, allows state child protective services agencies to remove children ONLY when immediate harm can be demonstrated or found to either have happened or be imminent. Texas CPS did NOT meet that burden. And given that the raids were initiated based on fraudulent reports from an unstable person, I doubt they could have justified the raids anytime soon. And given the logistics of that cult, I can't imagine a state agency would ever be able to make that kind of case. If the TX state appeals and supreme court would have sanctioned those raids, they could reasonably have been labeled as ACTIVIST. For sanctioning those raids based on the (reasonable) understanding of the practices of that cult would have been the equivalent of those courts MAKING laws. Now, do I believe those kids were in danger? The pre-adolescents were NOT in danger, based on what we do know about the practices, of sexual abuse. Were those kids, boys and girls, subject to unreasonably strict (read: abusive) discipline? We do NOT know. Were (are) teen girls subject to a culture that strongly promoted (sexually) abusive relationships and practices? Most likely. However, the job of making laws belongs to legislatures, state and federal (Congress). And any such laws any legislature in the US were to try to pass would take immense degrees of political will to overcome natural opposition from any and every flavor of religion and religious organization in the US. Only the most narrowly constructed laws would be possible, even if there is enough political will. The process would be arduous, any ambiguity would be subject to unbelievable scrutiny, both lobbying/activist activity in legislatures AND legal (constitutional) challenges in courts all the way up to the US Supreme Court. By the time anything like that would be finished with the process(es), it would easily be more than 5 years and maybe decades. I believe the way the state of Texas handled the situation was appalling. And I do believe that Texas caused much more harm than they will ultimately even be able to claim as good resulting from what they did. Should something have been done? I wish something constructive could have been done. But I also believe there has been NO social worker or agency with experience that would have given them insight to do it without causing tremendous emotional harm to the hundreds of kids involved.

Far be it from me to claim any special insight on relationships, but as a divorced single father, who had a terrible time with the way my ex and I handled disagreements (she never having been in TWI, and I had been in for 12 years and out for 2 before we met and began dating) -- I say you'll probably thank yourself (someday, who knows how far in the future) for following what your heart heard. I don't know how old (young) you are, but it's very likely you'll find someone else with whom you'll share the attraction. And if you change your mind about your relationship with Steph, consider counseling in advance, individually and together on how to constructively deal with conflict. btw, the way you described the attitudes you each had (including arrogance) and using the expression "butting heads" is wonderfully insightful at this stage in your relationship. You have the opportunity to proactively devise strategies to deal with what you've learned about yourself and about yourself in relationships. So, I congratulate you on your self awareness and hope this leads to a fulfilling marriage for you in the future.

Perhaps you're just reflecting, and not seriously pondering doing that. I hope. Regardless of his personal problems, crimes and/or sins, you would be well advised to NOT harass him. Since he's not had his rights taken away from him, to harass him (call him to confront, to any degree) would likely be, besides contrary to good sense, also subject to prosecution. And I'm not advocating treating LCM as anyone due any special honor. Instead, just concerned that no one gets the idea from this thread to commit any illegal/harmful actions that could get themselves in trouble (not to mention if they were to say they got the idea from GSC).

I looked him up too... and thought I had posted his name... but I must have gotten sidetracked when I read rhino's update on Fryar. He definitely got busted for cocaine... time seems to heal (or obscure) things like that too.

Ah yes... I knew it was knife related and involved domestic violence.... otherwise, apparently, my memory was quite fuzzy.

Yes, I'm sure about Fryar. Tony Collins was busted for cocaine. Fryar got arrested for domestic violence... I believe news stories at the time said he attacked his wife with a large kitchen knife. There was also a baseball player... his name escapes me at this time, but he was a utility player for the Oakland A's. He also got busted for cocaine.

I've used it... it works really well. Next time, I'll even print the tickets at home and save more money...

I would never! And pawtucket, why would you take any thing so personal? Gosh... regardless of the reasons, I think it probably was about time those threads were shut down. P.S... I am confident that I am not universally liked, either here or at the WC site... and it really doesn't bother me. I would hope that would be where most folks are in their own lives too...

Scarred? Or scared? I loved having kelp at meals (not just ADV class...). Kelp's a natural source of selenium, an important mineral nutrient. I don't know that sea salt vs regular table salt was a big deal to me. But yes, that junk table stuff was kinda troubling.

Socks, To both of your last two posts, I can only say... YUP, makes sense to me!

Garibaldi still tours with Tower of Power. Wikipedia -- David Garibaldi

Compassion, which is more related to a frame of mind than an action or series of actions, would also preclude the need to always "be right." Godly actions probably result from someone with a compassionate perspective more than from those without compassion. Knowing (now) that legitimate counselors (i.e. licensed practitioners) must go through rigorous training, practical experiences and testing, it amazes me that a ministry could even allow anyone to think that a short course (like the referenced Christian Counseling class) could even come close to being qualified to counsel people in need. And that particular amazement is troubling.

Ya think?!

It's hard to be narcissistic when compassion is a major part of one's life. It's also hard to be compassionate when one is narcissistic.

I like it!

A very interesting reflection Twinky. I left TWI about 22 years ago, but I do remember (vaguely) compassion having been taught, but don't remember who it was that expounded on it. However, it's most obvious that even though it was a subject of some teachings, it was not given the place of prominence that a study of the concept in the bible would have suggested it should. You might find this link helpful (though it clearly is NOT a reference to anything in TWI): International Standard Bible Encyclopedia: compassion An excerpt: " Compassion, literally a feeling with and for others, is a fundamental and distinctive quality of the Biblical conception of God, and to its prominence the world owes more than words can express." Frankly, had compassion been considered as fundamental, it probably would have displaced the obsession with "The Adversary."