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MRAP

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Everything posted by MRAP

  1. Well if I posted off thread topic more than some others, I appologize but did not think I was anymore off thread than alot of the posts; there's no issue for debate, I will sit this one out.
  2. Did vpw teach this wantonnes (sounds like a plural term for Korean currency) to the folks or was it learned by example and via the CF&S class? Now, to be honest, the CF&S class that I took back in the 1970's did not teach cheating, rape and the rest of that sorta crap but that there was nothing wrong with "sex" if you could not contain. Yeh, there was alot more but will leave it at that. One other thing, when on the field (WOW 1973) it was wrong to have "sex" with an unbeliever because that would be like having sex with an animal, you know, they were catagorized as the same - without spirit. So, what else is left, your sisters: I declined that option because I thought it wrong. Now I learn differenctly. Actually, I understand the concept - now, keep it in the family cause outside the family will possibly draw you away from your WOW mission (guess they never met a USN Sailor. we stayed on mission, regardless). Sorry, just a bit of levity but I am serious about that whole sex stuff. My 4th corp and then 5th corp branch leaders had a whole different view on sex that I was not comfortable with. Silly me, it's O.K. to have sex with a twig husband and not just pick up a guy in a bar. Bottom line up front (bluf), none of that quite passed the smell test.
  3. Since the discussion has gotten a bit off thread topic I feel comfortable stating that having been a Christian prior to twi was a rock in my existence, during twi it was questioned and confirmed many folds over but after leaving twi, I was free to be a Christian and not something else. TWI placed me back under laws that were differenct than the Lutheran church, when I questioned that, I was bucking God. Silly me, I thought they spoke for God. I have an ill feeling about those who say they spoke for God when it's damn sure they did not. I think back and am ashamed that I probably held vpw in highter esteem than Jesus Christ and even God (emotionally and in daily thinking). I have alot of sins in my life and even though I am forgiven of all by Christ's blood, it's very hard to think that I broke the first commandment.
  4. Having read and re-read the posts on this thread and it is now quite obvious that all corp folk can not be gathered into one basket, early corp (say the first 5) are/were different then the next 5 and so on. My lesson learned is to stop seeing you all as one bad bunch of apples - that's actually a bit of a relief (only for me). I see that most of you corp folks posting here were not in those first five corp (some are), thus, nothing much to gain on asking for your "credentials and proof". The anger has definetly subsided for all the corp folk I sponsored, I see it was just wasted money (we have all made "bad" investments), I have now learned to just let it go, they owe me nothing, then or now (shoot, some of you posting here may even be them), that would have been some folks in the 6th and 7th and maybe even 8th corp and some 4th. I was excited when RAF posted this thread topic and despite my interjections and expected responses, I eventually got some answers to long thought about questions and am relieved and and more able to forgive - actually, it closes out that forgiveness thing for those corp folks. I did not coin the phrase: rotten to the corp but why so many later corp folk use that saying? Some of you said (elsewhere) that anger, it think it was fear but they group together, has an up side, well, this thread is an up side to that. Yes, I am doing stuff here for myself - not for attention but for answers, big answers - and I keep getting those. I was older than most folks when they came to twi and of course have a harder time dealing with that crap; when you fall into a trap and should have known better, it sticks with you - I can let go stuff that happened earlier in the supposed stupid stage of life. It's the weekend and am sure there will be numerous posts that I can monitor that will confirm what I have already stated. Another thing: I did a boot camp (actually 2, Navy and Army) but what those of you who were in the corp, that sounds like a 2-3 year boot camp experience and not just a few months like me, that's rather amazing. Boot camp in the military is not just meant to be physical, it's more meant to be mental and emotional. Just like I saw folks from the early 70's (my boot camp era) and then folks 40 years later come outa boot camp, it was a different experience and different outcome. Thus, the early-mid-late corp are of course going to be differntly indoctrinated. You corp gals and guys, after reading all the posts actually do seem more like victems rather than oppresors, it seems I experienced mostly oppressors. I see it both ways, jerks become bigger jerks and those who want to serve become better server's' that's from what I read, not what I experienced.
  5. Actually TLC, ain't mad about anything, I am rather entertained by the gnashing of teeth. Everyone looking for a target, that I so willingly supplied and totally avoiding (except a few) to the #1 posting on this forum thread. My, my, what a fire storm, Katie bar the door and circle the wagons and yet, where's the response to post #1? Show of hands, who read post #1?
  6. DWBH, I am not a "twit" as in your terms (what ever that means so how would I really know), yet, I find it illogical to disregard everything taught in twi. When you integrate all biblical teaching that you have been exposed to, twi and elsewhere, you don't always remember the source; should it matter. Yes, twi taught alot of self serving crap but even a broken clock is right twice a day (only once for us military folk). I can not disregard everything taught by twi as false just like I can not disregard everything taught by the Lutherans as false, etc. The hard part to the equation is discernment, isn't that always the hard part of everything. I continue to search stuff on line, I also read the doctrinal forum here on GSC and also stuff on the despised STF web site. I have "found" that most of what twi taught was not incorrect (oops, double negative, just a figure of speech for emphasis) but their application of it was rancid, additioanlly, when I address "issues" that just don't seem to pass the smell test (the tree was Adam's penis or Eve went gay) then you just attempt to purge that stuff, even though we are incapable of totally forgetting things (strange little kwerk we humans possess). I know I am on a twi bashing forum thread and I say go for it but if I had just logged onto GSC and read some of the stuff posted, I could quite easily take away the opinion that absolutely everything taught by twi was a lie. What's my point, a lesson I was reminded of here on GSC, don't paint with a broad brush.
  7. Hey, RAF, by way, what's your affiliation with twi? I have come to question your authenticity. Please don't refer me to past threads. Realy, where and when?
  8. O.K., So many folks wanna talk about twi in general and avoid the origninal question/s? This thread is getting old and those of you, and you know who you are, will not post in answer to the question/s. Well, if I decide to continue reading stuff on GSC, I will do so with a renewed mind and with an understanding that there is nothing to be learned, at least doctrinally from the so called experts. Yep, you corp folk took thousands of $ from folks and did nothing with it. And you dis me for my bad opinion of corp folk. Just answer the frik'n questions and stop hopping around the thing.
  9. It's still a blame game, nothing changes after thousands of years. There may be a lesson to be learned: take responsibility.
  10. Hey TLC, recall in PFAL how vpw made a big issue how "man" was not deceived but the worman - Eve? O.K., Eve was deceivid but Adam knew what he was doing so what's/who's the bigger sin? Sin is sin but vpw wanted to dis the female gender in the whole thing. We never saw that clue in hind sight, vpw was continually dissing on females, degraiding them, making them necessary for subsurvince, to males. I suppose that fell in line with some male's thinking in twi; it never did sit well with me, it was not New Testament proven, regardless of the Corinthian letter/s on women and prophets and covering their heads - that was simple playing to the crowd. Regardless, using the Word of God to get laid is quite sickening. Sorry folks, I got way off topic so will stop here. It's "open topic", can you even get off thread or are we talking about: Open Topic?
  11. Waysider, how many versions were there to CF&S. I saw my version in 1975 and that was not addressed (maybe I fell asleep). Hey, Outandabout: I will also never again share that "thing". Veep told me at the camp fire it was Adam's penis and masterbation but that was 1973 I think, well, research changes things. From reading here on GSC it changed to homosexiallity = no, not wanting to discuss it here, it's a doctrinal topic. But of course, LCM had it all wrapped up in easy terms so that says it for us, right?
  12. I never asked for name, rank, serial number and bank account number with password. I only expected corp or not and what corp you were in, that Roman numeral like a super bowl: that would explain outa the shadows to me and anyone else where the mind set was, especially if you were in an early corp and sitting at the feet of the "teacher". Evidently this thread has touched a whole lotta nerves and since I painted that target on my back, I became low hanging fruit. Is it possible to go back to the first posting on this thread and address the question/s raised - some of you have actually done that but only a few. I suppose I can understand the reason/s to keep annominity and like I said on another thread, I can get a 70% passing grade on picking out the corp posters. Most of the corp folk here on GSC are late rather than early corp; my experiences were with early corp so, in thinking on that fact, I have grouped you late corp folks in with the earlier ones. DWBH or someone else pointed out how the corp numbers had increase almost exponetially - guess the feet of the "teacher" would have to be a size 37 to accommodate all the later corp. Anyway I look at it, corp folk eventually tip their hand - it's an ego thing. Hey, I'm not dissing on corp folk for having an ego, they earned it but not the right to other crap they imposed on folks. Yes, I will always have a distrust for folks in the corp: at least now maybe I should be more trustfull of later corp. All my diatrod aside, folks are not answering the original thread question/s. Yes-yes, you can go after me and give the appearance of posting an answer. Even stupid little me and others can see through that lame escape to the posed question's. Why not just answer the question/s or duct tape the key board.
  13. Many animals will trample each other when in a panic but sheep tend to be more apt at that - oops, did I forget humans as well. On another issue: I did leave a burning question and the perfect opportunity arose at a campfire where vpw was present and stated: "does anybody have a question". Well, I asked and he responded and then said, "does that shock you". It was about the original sin and the tree of life. I told vpw, "that I just wasn't sure, it was not any sort of answer I was expecting". To this day, it's still a question though for some time I thought he answered it but later doubted his answer.
  14. Well, that was alot more successfull than I had imagined. Yup, sure got some hair on end and raised an ire on the corp faithfull. You see though, you are attacking me and still not answering the question/s asked on the forum thread topic: you all are off thread.
  15. I intend no disrespect, what I have seen lacking on this thread is any actual "testimonial" from corp vets as to their being either a victim or an oppresor. It would carry a bit more weight if some partial ID were provided. I have made it well known my WOW status and waysider has made no bones about his Fellow Laborers affiliation but there are so many posters on GSC that are done so in the shaddows, the ellusion of inner circle knowledge about twi. It appears that past corp folk want to live in the shaddows, providing minimal personal info but yet, speaking from a pulpit of authority. I only think that those corp folk are ashamed and don't want to be identified; I most ashuredly understand that reasoning, yet, I also find that quite absurd: honesty on one part and mystery on the other. Frankly, I see this thread that addresses internal GSC matters as a step towards more enlightenment but also think that the intent of the thread will not be accomplished. I don't think there is some sort of mysterious code of silence but why all the silence, a deafening silence. Yes, the mystique of the corp continues.
  16. Thanks alot there DWBH, it puts alot to rest.
  17. Was the corp an ego trip for some, yes, of course it was, I sponsored some of those folks and some went into the corp because they had left everything as a WOW and could not "go home" so it was the next step, yes, I knew some of those folks too and some were one and the same. So, if you go into a program based upon your ego or nowhere esle to go: what are the expectations, basically, as varied as the persons' capability to renew their mind (and I ain't talking the twi renewed mind thing either).
  18. Thanks for the clarification modcatV, I rather assummed it after the fact; oh, thanks for the spell check there DWBH, guess I should have kept that helmit on the ole dome.
  19. Well, good morning Twinky, got your coffee or is it best to say morning tea. I wanted to thank you for your prior post but got so wouned around the axle I neglected to do so. This thread is placent for convolusion and long disertations. It's a great thread and drags out memories, way too many of those past pains and ellations of the times. At the moment I am recalling a sister playing the piano and singing some 40 years ago. Now that is all way off thread but it's drag along from the memories of those social presures. GSC is just one street down the road of memory lane, it's hard to divide out some of the good stuff, not twi, but the people you knew and loved. A very hard concept to describe though the visional memory is still there. Hope you have a good day.
  20. Well RAF, I intend not to be political but I think it's the both of em: Corp folk are both victims and oppresors. It's not quite that simple: you know the overlapping circle diagram - some are totally victims and some are totally oppresors and then you have those corp who fall in the overlap (indoctrinated to oppress) and the other overlap (indoctrinated but don't oppress). Now this discussion can revolve around the corp folk themselves (oppresors/or not) or the folk the corp affected (victims/or not), it's more convoluted than that RAF. As a non corp person, I can only see half of the pie and that piece of pie was rotten, while in twi and on the field and sadly I have probably dragged that perception onto GSC. Yet, it's reality or perception or both. This is not science but I think alot of that pie (especially the overlap portions) can be determined on GSC by the forums the corp folk post on. You can think about that last statement I wrote but I personnaly think it's absurd because time changes people, the over lord and "twi pressure" forum changes that. Prior to posting on this thread I recommend reading those two threads. Oh, yes, if you were a betting person, you could pick out the corp folk throughout the forums to include the doctrinal. Imagine, not a year here and I bet I could get a 70% test score on picking out the corp folk and I was not in the corp. Try me. Now, I am twi 40 ago, for this purpose I best say 30 years past since I can only relate to corp folk from my era - that the 70's show. I am quite certain this forum thread will be offensive to some (depends on your circle quad) because some folks out there held corp folk in highest esteem (in some ways I still do) and some loathe corp folk just like I do. What I like most about corp folk is that mostly but not absolutely can validate the teachings of vpw and that includes all the things he took from folks like Bullinger, etc. but you would have to post on the doctrinal forum to do that which seems below some corp folk level. Yes, I recently learned about levels here on GSC, I was elated to learn I was down there in doctrinal being spoon fed, I am ignorant having not sat at the feet of the master so ask and listen on the most stupid things I am allowed to ask; guess I caught the elevator. You see, one of the primary things a person leaving twi wants to know is what is crap and what was true. Don't even tell me you don't owe me, you do, I spent thousands of $ supporting/sponsoring 4th and 6th corp folks and thousands in ABS that went to HQ,that paid salaries of you folks at HQ. If any of you were in those two corp or were getting paid working at HQ, you really do owe me. Don't get snotty with me. I would love to hear from the corp folk: were you a Victim, Oppresor, both or neither; you see, there are plenty of reasons for folks coming onto GSC to not open their mouths, talk about intimidation.
  21. Someone said above about the time since leaving the corp has required alot of unlearning - just my paraphrasing of it. That's so true, after so much indoctrination and then going on reading and learing on your own you forget from where and who you learned it; that included decades between twi and doing any reading on STF and the REV - not really a JAL - as you say it - follower. The thread is social pressure and that includes alot of tangents to support issues so bare/bear/beer with me. Someone said I painted the corp with a broad brush, they are correct, I did generalize. At that time, all corp folk I came across I eventually found out to be much less than what I had thought them to be (that's where I became distrusfull of corp folk). DWBH is quite perspective regarding who/what/where/when and the numbers. Yes, thanks DWBH, you got those facts pretty much on target. Small numbers in the corp at that time and learning at the feet of the master/doctor; is that what accounted for their rotten minds (it's rhetorical)? I will cut L.McD some slack, I always had a bit of reasonability with her - I knew her well though can no longer remember the names of her two daughters. L.Mcd tried to talk me outa the marriage, wanting us to wait (I had financial reasons because of VA educational benefits) but at the end of the day (that day), I thought she was O.K. with it. When the word went out to not attend the marriage, via the branch leader (5th corp interm) I was not sure where it came from and at that time, did not give a rat's pitoot. Now you really make me think on this one DWBH, at that time, would a limb leader go back to the HQ on such a minor issue and then decree down to the branch leaders to not attend: just provide an opinion since it appears you are familiar with the W's of the time, if needed, I will just read around the insults - I am making an honest request. Oh, before I forget, my appologees to any corp folk out there deserving of said appologe - you know who you are and who you are not. Not so much a social pressure at this time, and in all reality, that BS by twi releaved both my wife and I from any more social presure by twi. Recall the line by Princess Lea in Star Wars: Lord Vadar, the tighter you grip the more systems will slip through your finders. We were thankfull of slipping through the fingers. Yet, (here's social pressure) we had already made all the arrangements to go to the ROA that year (1976), we went, we left, it was over - we thought, it was not until way into 1977 that we could cut out. Here's the social pressue, not really social so much as guilt: we got groups (what were "groups") comining into the area, can you help to get them established with housing and jobs, etc. WTF?!!. They were something like a roving little twig, there were two groups - anybody know about such a program? Anyway, after that, it was over, we just wanted twi to leave us alone though we consistently got correspondence, even though moving around in the military (postal service forwarding mail I suppose) we kept getting twi stuff, even in Korea. Thinking back, probably because we had committed to supporting a couple folks in the 6th corp, which we did for those years. I think one of the last correspondence we go from twi was a LCM Homo Letter (something about homo fantasies, etc.) and that was around 1993/4, was that an after the fact letter or was that the initial homo purge. I now think about it, we got married in 1976 and we were still infected by twi until 1993. I think back to my international WOW year and some of the older laidies in the twig (not WOWs but ladies we brought in to the class, etc.) who provided excellent advice that I did not follow. They thought we were great kids and doing a great service to God and Jesus but that we needed to be aware of the organization we were in, they understood the methods of the "sexy" branch leaders and the roving WOW's (other interm corp). I was just too smart to listen to them, no, I was too stupid not to listen to them. What a great bunch of girls, the three of em had been friends all their lives and were very carring, it was not until later I learned how much they did for families in the branch to include financially. I should have been learning from them, they had been living their lives for decades on the principles we thought we were teaching them. I think when they left a twig meeting they just smiled and nodded to each other. Those were the ladies that came to our marriage - I would like to think now they were also thinking: "ROAD TRIP"!! That's somehing now I regret, not giving them the due respect they deserved, I was too busy about the business of a twig leader. You see, that's what that damn twi social pressure does to you, you disregard those good lessons you learned growing up and become a twi dweeb, thinking you are better than folks with less time in the twi process. You know that feeling when regret grabs your whole body and you know you can no longer go back to them and say things to help make it straight, not even being able to say thanks. Ship, what a long post, can't say sorry, it's on thread.
  22. Well, recalling something from 40 years ago and it still engenders anger is my issue to deal with but I found it strange that it engendered so much anger, thus, why not give the forgiveness thing a try - I keep moving on in life (twi has not really drained me, in fact, inadvertently, twi helped me). I am glad I shared that matter here because the next day I went over in my head the thoughts I shared and realized I needed to re-evaluate my angers with twi (those interm corp dweebs) and rather than rehashing the hate to find a new recourse, I thought forgiveness might be a good road to take, after all, don't we have words to that example by our Lord. Actually, I am still on thread: learning about how to deal with past anger/hate towards the overlords. I thank the folks on GSC because no one else would understand that rant - when no one can understand what's in you, sometimes you go out into the woods or field in the night and shout it to the sky (sometimes it works). Hey, still got the ole Lead Zepplin song in my head.
  23. RAF, I think that I misunderstood the forum title, I thought it was referring to "my/our" roots to religous organizations; Reading it again today I see that it is in all probability referring to the roots of the off shoot organizations. Sorry for the confussion.
  24. No disrespect but what if our "roots" preceed twi? You know, some of us had a spiritual existence before stumbling upon twi. If you don't know what the hell I am talking about then go back and look at how you worded this sub forum title. Hey, you did your best in a short time and also stipulated info in the opening post. No, I ain't trolling looking for things to bitch about - I have read that forum title numerous times and it just kept bugging me. What I do take from the "title" is that it tips the hand on an already perceived status - just an observation.
  25. I don't mean to pick on corp folk, evidently there were a few good ones - somewhere but that training/indoctrination must have been far worse than what I was taught in the military to resist brain washing if captured (depends which side of the hot poker you are on). Indoctrination is easy if the mind is open and the skids greased to receive the mother load. I know, it's a bit off thread but am working up to the point. I am looking for a reason to rationalize why the corp folk were such turds (part of my forgiveness therapy) but it is not all that easy because they were all individuals, each with their own needs and different expectations and acceptance of reality. It's all a trap and each fell into it based upon their individual needs but what about using people, their brothers and sisters in Christ, sexually, financially and as work slaves. Yeh, shovel the snow while the branch leader sleeps in and feels no need to say thanks. How in the hell can a person get indoctrinated into that dictatorial state, was not vpw a farm boy and taught the value of manual work to the corp? I think, IMHO, that the corp allowed folks to digress to their most basic persona, good or bad, that's what they did. The corp changed no one, they just became more of what they always were and justified it because of their God given authority. Now where does the social pressue come in, when these little monsters were let loose on an unsuspecting bunch of WOW's, talk about a furtile feeding ground. We were clay in their hands: WOW branches took on the same persona as the branch leader and those who did not - well, they were bucking God. To summarize on the social pressure topic, it was HQ directed via the corp robots. Now ain't that overly simplified. I admit, my view of it all is narrow and I was not in the corp so I may be speaking by extrapolation on that limited knowledge. Maybe that's why I have such a mis-trust of so many folks on GSC knowing they were corp folk and still drag along some of that persona on steroids. Yes, I got off thread, maybe.
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