MRAP

Ham, Waysider, et.al.: We were the folks with the guts to stop it but we did not - it was folks like us who did not find the guts to stand up and change things so we should not be talking about being bullied. We failed: Period. We had the opportunity to take control of a situation that we "knew" was going bad and did not stand on our convicions. I am ashamed. There are plenty of rationalizations/excuses but that does not make it. If we had done our job then there would not even be a reason for the GSC.

A bully only exists because it take others to allow them to be a bully - a bully is a result of other folks being whimps. TWI leadership became the way they were because we were whimps and did not speak up when we learned things were wrong. News Flash: we were responsible for the bullies and the demise of all things that were good in twi, we allowed it to happen. We became the slaves to fear and did not realize it until all that was good and true was lost. Ever read: "Lord of the Flies", not a total but enough correlation to the twi world we knew, lived in and left. Control someone by the thing they love most - God's word/Bible/etc.; now that's a miss-use of the word and God forgive them.

Good tatoo idea: #20 on each cheak - there you go waysider.

VPW knew his audiance/s: to WOW's he was loving and personable, at a limb meeting, he was more aggresive and demanding, in the AC and/or Corp setting - I can not comment, I was never there. I spent a few camp fires with vpw and he was quiet, when asked to answer a question - he did so with a soft yet strong voice but not over bearing or trying to look like a/the MOG. Then go to the stage appearances at the ROA's, normally, quite dynamic and "Charismatic"; oh yah, he knew his audiance/s. Maybe some insight from his brother furniture salesman, Harry. The book on uncle Harry was short, did not fit well into the book shelf based on the odd dimension but I would recommend it to anyone in sales - it taught me that I never wanted to be in sales. These are only personal observances, nothing more or less. So, back to the original question by Bolshevik: I would have to state that Yes, vpw was charismatic but who cares? Charisma is no guarentee for truth.

Oh, by the way skyrider: unloading the hopper on the move, yeh, like who was the responsible one to keep the chute in the wagon (THE GUY ON THE TRACTOR DRAGGING THE WAGON), but yes, you are not alone, I dumped alot of seed on the field - stupid auger lever.

skyrider, if we want to talk about AG screw ups, we could go on forever - the one's we got our asses kicked over are the ones that stick. I know, wrong forum but you know, Jesus used a alot of AG parables. Somehow, being close to the earth better allows you to understand the things of God - just saying.

How does anyone prove you ever took the class: is there a test to take - wonder how I would score? Nah, they would just check ABS records.

Can supply some meat: squirrel, venison and fish. Where are we talking?

I grew up on a farm down in Indiana: the proverbial farm with the "little" red barn - just like the song - think of Bugs Bunny with the hoe over his shoulder. When a combine harvests the wheat, it has an upper grate that removes the husk and shaft (chaff) and a lower grate that holds the wheat but allows the small tare/weed seeds to fall out: the chaff and the tare seeds are spewed out and the good wheat grain is moved to the hopper. Skyrider and Mr.Lortz, it's a fantastic analogy/parable - thanks. I do believe that there are some combines that have a special bag in the back that collects the tare seeds so they don't "re-seed" in the field but are "disposed of" = draw your own analogies/parables from that. Unlearned Question: Aren't the angels supposed to be the harvesters? Oops, that's a question for the doctrinal forum. Visions of angels with John Deere and IH/Case hats.

Thanks once again WordWolf - I had recently read this post by Tazaia. The reason this discussion needs to go to the doctrinal is to dispute/confirm research by JS in the REV. I don't care much at all if JS gets high and mighty, if he's right: then so be it. JS spends more time piecing together research from other folks and gives them credit more than he takes himself for stuff he does, yes, nothing new here in the field of biblical research but it's niece to see it consolidated and referencing the folks. So, the question, he uses stuff to ascert preconceived concepts - I think so. Yet, he tends to document contrary opinions by himself and those he accepts and those he disagrees with - like I said, the commentary in the REV is a refreshing read. Thus far, folks have only dissed on JS and provided no particular thing he has noted in the REV that is BS.

waysider, I got the meaning and thanks cause it was not all in that direction as I was tracking. I should have just went back to the initial purpose of this thread: who da fool. Let's not talk about the names our kids give to their kids - new wife: boys are built like pro wrestlers and all have girls names. How much of our lives are spent explaining our foolishness and bad decisions - "We are all Bozo's on this Buss". Ham: good night.

Ham, you are not the emperor and I am not Luke - calling it a parable is a stretch but will grant you that one. Go ahead Ham, I will give you the last word on this.

Ham, if you please, stick to the facts of the research of the REV, if that research is invalid and I accept that research as valid then I am a fool. Adultery is a forgivable offense and does not exclude one from conducting valid research. If adultery was a life long hanging sin (disqualification) then much of what we now accept in science and other disciplines would be dis-allowed. Then who are the fools?

So, I guess the posts by both Rocky and myself are in accordance with the theme of this forum: "being fools". If I am a fool for reading the REV, I want to know but I want proof and that proof should not be in the form of: JS is a jerk.

Rocky, I never said someone "needs" to read the REV in order to form an opinion on JS/STF but since we are now in a post twi era would you not want to evaluate the product of JS/STF prior to submitting an opinion. I certainly think that you do have a dog in the fight or a past grudge with JS - that's a topic for another of the vast expanse of forums. Go ahead, read some of the REV and then post a discertation of opinion on the doctrinal site. Thus far Rocky, you are just continuing to dis on JS/STF: you said about the REV, "translation (or whatever you'd want to call it) of the bible." If JS is all that screwed up, I want proof because if he is, I will move on. I want current proof from the REV and not some ascertation of past twi involvement - hell, there are alot of us still seeking truth who were in twi or is it just if we were on the payroll. If JS/STF "is" screwed up, I want to know, if that be the case, I will move on from reading the REV, etc. I respect opinions from this site but I will not accept opinions of doctrinal translations from folks that are simpley anti to the person writing those research opinions. Like I said, if you want to post an opinion to the REV, post it on the doctrinal forum.

waysider: you speak in a parable - (yes?) - please explain the meaning. Sometimes your often humorous quotes run a bit deeep.

Steve, bless you man and go for your goal/s. I keep up with learning but not on anything I ever went to school for and/or in my pre retirement professions. I hit up alot of biblical research sites and that includes JS/STF and this site. It really does not matter your age or if you plan to financially gain from what you are learning, at our age, shoot, take the time to learn. I certainly appreciate reading you posts - something that keeps me coming back to this site. TWIMC: I realize that anyone associated with a twi off shoot and teaching or doing research is dissed on here but I read the REV by JS/STF and don't have too many issues with it. Just because of past twi association does not exclude someone from doing honest work. Yes, I understand: there are axes to grind and the desire for retribution runs deep when revenge is a force; too often it's just human nature. Hey, before anyone/s pile on me, take the time to read the REV by JS/STF and then post your issues in the doctrinal forum. As I have read in many of the forums: many current/active twi folks visit this site, well, the doctrinal forum is perfect for them if they are truely into understanding and viewing different views. I thank GSC for providing that forum. I am not advertising for anyone or any organization so take a chill if this post offends you.

I don't know Steve, being fooled does not make any person a fool. Then again, by definition: is that correct? Just me: I don't like that "fool" identity applied to someone who does not deserve it. Maybe it's the biblical thing or the cards thing (joker - jester).

DWBH - I known that vpw did not have a basketball career, it was a joke on vpw's ascertation to the fact - googling it too is a joke as I don't need to search for info that has already been revealed. The joke I was attempting to make was why the comparison to baseball when it should be basketball because of vpw. DWBH, you ask: How long ago was I in twit; I was in twi from 1972 to 1977. DWBH: What's your point regarding how long ago I was in twit?

Free time on the 74/75 WOW field was 24 hours a week, I would start it on Saturday moring and used it to make money at the auto shop so we had some $ for decent food for the family and then in the evening just walk around down town Oshkosh, WI - I would see my fellow branch folks coming outa bars and just figured they were witnessing since drinking on the field was not allowed - later I found out that was their free time - they were the smart ones and I was the dumb foot to not at least stop in for a drink.

Yes,waysider, that was a commonly played game: Guess the Gift Ministry. Now I see that it was a game but back then, it was a serious observation we were encouraged to make regarding our future leadership - being correct meant you had more spiritual understanding. There were some obvious winners: teachers and preachers but the prophets, aposteles and espeacially the evangelists never showed. Oh, recall, there were also double gift minestriest awarded (never got the daily double).

DWBH, you have already quoted me, scroll back up the postings and you will see. Hey, disagreement does not = hostility. Take your last word, I will not respond.

Hey Einstein, you re-quoted me but left no response: do you have a point?

DWBH, please stop with the assumptions. Are you thinking that by posting on GSC that you are doing God's work via anti-twi information? So the Boss commands you - to do what, post? I love this sight because I get alot of scripture from differnt points of view and some nostalgic points of view that I also wondered about. probably more research has been posted here than was ever provided by twi but I never heard about the Boss's instruction. Now look DWBH, I have read tit-for-tat stuff on GSC and I don't want this to turn into that intercourse. You assummed something about me and you were incorrect, let it go. I would only ask clarafication on this statement you made: "The Boss and THEY already know"; who are the THEY? Maybe that's a thread for the doctrinal forum.