MRAP

Well gee by golly there Oakspear,if you are an athiest then I would logically expect you do not believe in the devil either. No, I realize by personal experience that a good percentage of athiests practice good morals but on the average, athiests do tend to be less moral than God fearing folk - yes, many God fearing folk are also immoral. I have stated there are no (few) athiests in fox holes; listen my athiest friend, it is true/correct that many soldiers, etc. tend to look to God when their lives are in danger of the exit door. Folks want to cover their bases - it's human. Well, Oakspear, are you happy? I don't think athism (is that a word) either adds or deflects from happiness, I wouldn't really know (all of you, spare me the arguement about happiness and joy). Now, since good ol'e Raf started this thread I will honor him with this dissertation. I respect Raf and would hope that reading all the discourse on this site would bring him back but I expect not but who am I to say such. If this site only attracted old twi's then it's missing some of the benefits of the site. Yeh, you can do the twi bashing and trip down memory lane but this site has exceptional dissertation on the Bible (read it or don't). So there Oakspear, you will continue to be innundated with the Bible on the site. So, tell me athiests, if you believed prior (accepted Jesus Christ) and you now no longer believe then you don't believe in the eternal seed of God placed in you, I got it. Have by chance, in the event you are wrong, what would you say to Jesus at the Bema - now that's the ultimate hypothetical question.

Correct me if wrong but are we not supposed to get revelation first (and maybe more) if God wants us to do something. Isn't it only when our spiritual ears are so closed that God then gives that revelation to someone else (Paul and the binding of the hands in latter book of Acts). So, does the revelation only have to do with the movement of the Word or can it also include our personal lives? Hey, revelation: really, I ask you my learned brothers, sometimes the small voice or a loud shout. I think about a DS situation, now that was loud: do it, what to do and how to deal with her afterward. It was after that, that I questioned (only to myself of course) why did not my Branch Leader who was there not get the revelation package to do it? Funny, looking back on it all, I was not asked to explain my actions (branch leader was outa the room so did not see it all). In truth, I did not know what had occurred at the time, it was only later I put the pieces together. So, what's the test: she stayed faithfull to the word for at least over a year until we lost contact - she went to work at the Wisconsin Limb HQ. So, getting back on topic: Dangerous Revelation. I don't recall any event where revelation was given to me that endangered my life. I do recall being sent out of the house to do a walk around because there were some "spiritual things" going on outside the house (yeh, took a while to gather my witts and courage on that). Again, went out to do the task (with my family brother) by the branch leader; it's only on retrospect that if it was "spiritual" then why did not my branch leader, the spiritual heavy weight do the task and we follow along to learn from the master. I think she was just paranoid since it was her and 2 other girls and let men do the task and that it was not a spiritual threat at all or else, it was just a game she executed to test our commitment as this was early in the WOW year. I should have figured it out then: the branch leader tested us or she was incappable of leading by example or did she have revelation that we were more spiritually strong then she (yeh, right). In all hind sight, I think she was just hearing things and wanted us to go out and clear the house, dang, just get a frick'n gun. The branch leader was hot and just figured everybody wanted her - just saying.

I think that twinky made some good points that set a presidence for this forum. I see that we are crossing the streams between "everyday positive attitude/believing" and the manifestation. Now when Jesus cursed the fig tree, I tend to think that is the manifestation and that is what he was then the day later telling the disciples to execute and also about mountain moving - wow (I might be wrong, in Jesus case, maybe he could pull that off with everyday believing). I got property to clear from old overgrowth, I will start with the shrubs. When we keep a positive attitude, act on it (action) and "power it up by SITing" I see that as prayer with personal action. Personally, I do that consistently, I tend to SIT consistently (I'm retired but also did it at my job and on mission - no athiests in a foxhole - don't respond, Iv'e already heard it). When out fishing and hunting I don't SIT for the big Musky or Buck, I just thank God for a safe and fun day, same as watching sporting events, I SIT for the safety of my team (strangely I ommit the opposing team - "I be jerk"). You see, when SITing, it's a wide range of things it covers: main in the list is praising God and exercising holy spirit. I don't think I am bugging God or Jesus Christ by SITing nor just plain thanking them for past (and future) events but what it does alot is to keep the dynamic duo in my thoughts even though it starts out selfish and later becomes gratitude and praise. Bottom Line Up Front (BLUF, it's an Army Acronym) Why not believe in believing and at the same time trust your common sense. Be safe out there.

I'm with you waysider. When sent out on the WOW field with a branch and family that were mostly years junior to me I took on a "workman's" leadership role (like a contractor) and used my senses and construction experiences mostly to negotiate with property owners to get housing for some of the branch families. I SIT'd alot and "beleived" but in essence, it was just plain determination and bartering WOW labor to fix up properties to get rents lowered and security deposits dropped. All in all, that working together as a branch those first few weeks made us a tight group (knit together in love, I think that was the ROA motto that year) and gave confidence to many who had never seen a hammer or paint brush previously. That initial experience for the branch was a "God Send" if you believe in such things. To do what we did was not revelation it was just common sense and that's how I think God mostly opperates: initiative and determination with a positive "can do" attitude. I am convinced prayer/SITing was also a factor (too many coincidences). Mostly everyone getting jobs, to quote the last statement in Conan the Barbarian: "That's another story". Sorry folks if I got off topic, am sure there is a forum that already exists for such dissertations.

Hold on there teachmevp, some of us have been going on longer in our lives since learning and practicing Christian values then during the non-Christian earas of our lives. You mix past and present tense in your dissertation, if you had stayed past tense, I would have no arguement (you do stay mostly past tense I will admit). Is not the renewing of the mind a goal to be sought, though not possibly attained? That renewing is a constant action and it is doubtfull we have a self standard to measure ourselves - we strive to attain the mind of Christ. Our world experiences, that would include Dick and Jane books and all teaching thereafter are part of the learning experience, if it were not for that, I would not be able to read the Bible so let's not dis all worldly teaching and life experiences and think they are detrimental. I see your point: I count it all as dung but that's only in comparison to God's word and to not let traumatic life experiences or ungodly teachings influence us but to throw aside all attained knowledge that is not practical. Thanks though for the post, it reminds us (at least me) that our changing needs to be a constant activity.

In going back to the initial questions posed, I will provide this commentary reference from Spirit and Truth Fellowship International (John W. Schoenheit): 11:51. “Now he did not say this of himself.” Before the Day of Pentecost God could place His gift of holy spirit upon people so that they would accomplish His work. This is a good example. Caiaphas, though not a godly man, was still High Priest and God placed holy spirit upon him at least so that he could give an accurate prophecy about Jesus, which then became a prime motivator for them to seek his death (see v. 53). This is an example of how God works in history to bring about His purposes without the need of perfect foreknowledge. God, by His power, can influence things He wants accomplished. 11:53.“plans.” The middle voice of the verb indicates they worked together (cp. NASB). 11:54. “Ephraim.” A city close to the Arabah desert, about 13 miles (20 km) NNE of Jerusalem. From here Jesus went north through Samaria, into Galilee, across the Jordan River, traveled south through Perea, crossed the Jordan River again and came to Jericho, 11:56.“were seeking.”zeteō (#2212 ζητέω), “to seek.” The verb is in the imperfect tense, active mood, so the Jews were seeking Jesus. Caiaphas had given a prophecy that one man should die for the nation instead of the nation being destroyed, and so the Jews were now zealously seeking to kill Jesus. “Surely he will not come to the feast?” The form of the question assumes strongly that Jesus will “absolutely not” (the Greek uses two negatives for emphasis: ou mê) dare to come this time (Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament). The translation in many modern versions loses the fact that the question expects a “no” answer. This shows that the people knew their leaders were trying to arrest and kill Jesus, and so they assumed that he would know that too, and not show up at Passover. Now that commentary introduces many questions but I would like to stay on thread. I also re-pose the earlier question: did Caiaphas receive the prophecy prior to his statement to the sanhidren - something in the reading of this text draws me to that thought. Hey, teachmevp, I am glad to see you in some actual dialouge: I would like to hear more about the Roman's twist to this - I know how they fit in but the profecy directly, not seeing it yet. I will grant that the profecy may have had very far reaching ramifications (the gathering of the nation?).

waysider, you stepped smack dab into the middle of my thoughts: puzzle pieces. That's what I was thinking throughout the reading of the two threads that WordWolf provided. I also wondered, how many of the folks were still with us today. The best and the worst of times somehow applies but time does not excuse much of anything; in reading those two threads there was alot more positive than negative. I also am a realist but that information was a confirmation to what I have held over the years and is why I started the twi good/bad experience thread - it seems like that thread was just and extension of other numerous threads. We can despise twi for good reasons but we must also accept on how it made us grow and see how it changed the course in our lives - step up to the challenge and overcome the past and the twi of that time is certainly the past. Stangely, I have an interest in hitting up a twig just to see what is taught (like stopping in to see an old girlfriend), not to be a thorn in their side, I am just qurious. Ten years and maybe more, you, waysider, have the same thoughtful yet humerous take on all the issues. Bless you.

Before anyone comments further on this thread you must first access and read the links provided by WordWolf on page 2 of the "Irony of it all" thread within the Way forum. Really, it will provide exceptional insight. Those two links are 10 years old but some of you here today posted on those two thread links - like looking into the glass. Enjoy and take a walk down memory lane. It will be emotional - at least I thought so.

Thanks so very much WordWolf, each of those two links provided more information than I expected. The queastion at hand was not answered directly but there were quite a few clues and the simple jolting of the memory given the circa gave me the answer/s - I think. I want to reread the path down memory lane to ensure I got it right; I am sure waysider will provide his evaluation prior to me since he posted in those old threads. The names, my goodness, brought back so many thoughts since I knew alot of the folks and then there where the folks who posted, obviously, I knew a few. Now I am so glad I kept all those albums (no one throws out ol'e vynil anyway). Hope the turn table still works and a new diamond can be purchased. Loved especially the posts by Ted.F and now I have a better understanding of socks. Will drop a post on this thread after I reread and thanks again.

O.K. waysider, now you got me in a quagmire - I thought as I got older I would always still have the long term memory thing. I was at the 1975 ROA and based on the stage set-up/facing to the north I think, that was for sure the one where the AC grads did the healing - as I recall, vpw told all the AC grads to go to the back (behind the crowd) and that anyone needing healing was to go to the back and seek out an AC grad to receive healing. It was the 1976 ROA that was the honoring of the country and military as the stage was different (facing the east I think) and that is the same stage that the singers from the Oshkosh, WI WOWs sang at but that does not fit with my memory since those singers in my branch sang at the ROA after their and my WOW home coming in 75. Needless to say, I am totally confused between those two years. I will pose the possibility that 74 (my going WOW year) was at Shelby cty fair grounds and the next year (75) was at Lima (Allen cty fair grounds) and 76 was back at Shelby cty. There is no doubt in my mind that someone will chime in here and clear this up for us. So, maybe we are still on thread since this is about irony - thank goodness we now have permanent press. Either way, in vpw's defense on the AC grad healing ordeal, just think: if vpw had gone to the back, he would have been swamped and the AC grads would not have had the opportunity. Just saying. Was it not at the "healing thing" ROA that Craig.M had his big 1st large stage speaking/teaching opportunity the night before the final night when vpw taught?

Well Yes, Broken Arrow, I am enhanced (the question in my head has been answeered): Allen county fair grounds near Lima. Thanks.

TWI screwed me over: they took (accepted)my money, part of my youth, degraded me and built in me a mis-trust for all non-traditional Christian evangelical organizations. I consider myself blessed or just plain lucky that I had a number of adult years under my belt when the twi exprience started. While in twi, it could have went super bad at any point, I almost applied for the WC but some debts preventeded me; never considered debts to be a blessing (sorry about that Uncle Harry). The twi blessing to my life was totally inadvertent and unintended by twi. I put me in the right places at the right times to push forward in life. Well, I could always thank the school bully who used to kick my foot for making me tougher and ....ed off enough to eventually take him down a few notches and thus, provide a sense of courage and capability. That's how I view twi; luckily: no long standing damage. Strangely, the bully stopped being a bully and we became friends but that never happended with twi. How can anyone not be empathetic to what twinky posted; twi makes folks more vulnerable in their lives (dependent) and then takes advantage of that vulnerability. (sorry, off topic and it's a thread I started).

Having said that waysider, I guess you are a perfectionist. It's OK, there's help available for even puppet frogs. Hoping your sense of humor is still in tact.

Thanks Mom, no cussing in church or on line. Yes, dang = s... if no one knows and f.. is just a big nothing. So word cops, who are you? Who's the big brothers on this sight and what are the writing rules - please post them. Can I do a : @###$%@ just like in the 1940's comic strips? Some, not I, played cuss games a few months back and Raf stepped in but Raf is not the big guy here (?) - who runs this site and sets the rules. Just let me know and I will abide but being blind sided, that's poor ethic on your part. I am quite sure this whole post will be removed by the language police. Test me!

Most of my ROA's were Shelby County fair grounds but one in between was somewhere near HQ but I do know it had concrete latrines and a semi-permanent stage but mostly, it was a pasture with porti johns and no bathing facilities. Yeh, we could start a ROA horror thread, go for it waysider. I learned before even my first ROA to schedule a motel near by that nearly 20 of us could use to take showers and a quiet dang and move on back to the ROA grounds. Oh, I love it, dang = dang. This is a test since I know .... will not go across: so, .... = ? I will not test the system further. Am I in trouble for testing the system mein heir? These were two different posts but combined by "the system". What the hell?

It was a camp fire, the night after pfal session 11 and I asked vpw a question: What was the original sin? VPW stated that it was masterbation (by Adam) - and then he/vpw looked right into my eyes and said: "Does that bother you", I said, "I don't know sir". He just started off with a song after that. VPW taught sessions 10 and 11 in life and during session 10 a guy was reaching to his shirt pocket and VPW got irate, very irate, thinking the guy was reaching for a smoke and then VPW said to him: "Nobody smokes when I am teaching" he said he wasn't but vpw was never wrong. Some guys from the back came in and took the guy outa the back of the tent. At that time I should have followed my instincts but did not. After the camp fire I should have followed my instincts but I did not. A few years later I sat around a camp fire with vpw (he was on a fishing trip in Wisconsin), it reminded me of that camp fire in NC; I said nothing to him that evening that I recall. His mannerisms reminded me of the way he held himself years before - he was an actor. Then again, he was fishing in Wisconsin and most folk fishing the walleye run were half in the bag - I knew that. Now, I follow my instincts. I should have done that soon after but did not. My life and my mistakes are on me, I don't blame vpw or twi for any of them, I knew better and did not act appropriately.

Well Mongo, you can always say you are moving forward (same as I) but you will always drag on a bit of mental baggage: you can not erraise all of your memories - would you really want that power. We are a product of all our past experiences, yet, we choose what we take from those experiences. That's why I continue to read the Bible on a daily basis: keep the best and keep the best.

Contraband you say Broken Arrow, well, I will hide them away until I hit the twi site and see if they want them for the museum. Actually, I wanna keep those in the event I start up a home fellowship but would be willing to pass off a few. Odds are, when I open one up, the pages will crumble like in the original "Time Machine". Say, waysider, you are always such the comic releif on GSC, I never know when to take you serious but on the above post, I believe that you are.

Yes, waysider, at least in my years on the field we had one day off a week. That's one way to minimize a lucid relationship with a non-twi person - if I follow the logic, 1 day vs 6 days, then sex within the fold is more available but I find that not only inappropriate but like screwing up the mission that you are on, also, a bit incesstial. Hey, follow up that discorse after having watched the CF&S seminar - like a Saturday night porn video. The big question, you put all these restrictions on all these young and viral WOW's - one of the first things I was told on the WOW field by my branch leader was that masterbation was acceptable - that was a bit strange since about two years earlier at a camp fire in NC vpw stated that the original sin by Adam was masterbation. I later was told that was true then but for us it was OK. My branch leader (I was in here familly) told me it was OK to seek sex but that she could not tell everyone that since they would refer to their natural whoring ways. Hey, I wanted her to tell me who those girls were. In all the hind sight I "believe" that twi wanted folks to fornicate within the fold and marry in order to increase the twi numbers: primarily that it would take both to agree to leave twi (one will always want to stay)or through offspring if both decide to stay. Later on in my military career and also a civilian medical technologist career I witnessed numerous episodes where sexual relationships ruined the careers of folks and affected missions.

Tzaia, does this only have to do with the priesthood? If this is for all of Israel, then is this connected to the red thread - preservation of the nation in order bring forth the messiah? (just a question).

Yes, I do believe in an all sufficient reconcillitation - Jesus took care of that. What I still question is the act of works. I do good works, not for redemption or paying for sins but to gain more rewards in the Kingdom. Either way you look at it, I do those works knowlingly or unknowingly. It's often after the work that I realize it is added to my account when appearing in front of the bema. I got this strange thing in my head that if I do a good work because I know it adds to my account then it's not worth as much but a random work (without thinking about it) has more worth. Is it about motive and recollection as to the why for the work? Maybe the best thing is to be ignorant but knowing causes questions. So, teachmevp, drop a bit of insights, you have tons of words to enlighten the masses. Would much appreciate other posts to this. Either way, I will just keep on going and praying for a bit less insight - sounds a bit strange.

So, all this "staying on thread/topic" confuses me. Why do so many threads take a tangent, i.e., from perfectionism to plagerism? I will answer my own question: it's tit for tat = ego. Yes waysider, I got it about the twi/vpw plagerism, important point. In an effort to get back to the perfectionism thread I would add: the older I get the less of a perfectionist I become except for things like my garden. It all depends on what needs to be perfect. In the medical field, you expect perfection. If your lawn has a crooked tire mark, who cares (unless it's on a major league baseball field). Just don't let perfectionism get in the way of more important things in life, I think that is the idea that Allan was attempting to highlight when he started this thread. It's actually a very good concept. I no longer worry if I am throwing the correct lure for a musky, I am just having fun and sometimes it works to my benefit (outa the box). Or hunting deer, I will have a cigar smoke though I know it will possibley screw up a shoot for an hour. I no longer compete as I once did, nothing to prove. If you are still in the absolute need for achievement, then perfectionism is essential. I love getting old since I have a lesser need for perfectionism - I think it will grant me more years to my life(less stress). Having been a perfectionist most of my life and in numerous areas of my life I now enjoy my life more having shed that perfectionism.

The only true discussion you can have with a person is to be able to look into their face and see their eyes. And if you or they are physically blind, then the voice says everything. Yes, it's a generational thing but also seems to encompass the older generations. I had a speech professor in college (Micheal Gilerokos) who stated that one of the best art forms one will ever master is to hold a conversation. Internet email, texts, etc. are all a means of communication but it (they) is not holding a conversation.

Way International bumper stickers: I forgot all about those, Uncle Harry went around putting them on visitor vehicles at the Sunday night teachings at HQ (was that a true story?). I am doing a house move and have hundreds of pounds of old twi stuff (boxes of books and tapes) and I know it includes some bumber stickers (both the older dark green and the newer - at the time - lime green ones - circa 1970's). Good practical joke, provide those to your neighbors/friends to place on your car. I know it's great glue, took me a long time to scrape em off me and my wife's vehicle bumpers. Learning point: do not park on the street if you are overly active/informative on FaceBook. Anyone want an old blue song book?

I witnessed the "sex sells": When your WOW branch leader specifically wears a low cut and very tight dress at the Sunday night branch meetings, where more of her boobs are exposed as to being hidden - I would call that as being sexual marketing. When the next year's WOW branch leader is hitting on the twig leaders, that's a bit sexual. Both of these women were in their interim corp year - I did not bite, my friend, a younger twig leader, took the bait - it screwed up his marriage. Was that twi induced, maybe the former but the later was just plain a horney girl, IMHO. Either way: I lost confidence in corp folk, they were no more spiritual as I. Strangely though, from two different corp, each of them used the same quote: "your bucking God!" when ever there was disagreement with them. I read earlier, time an place (proof) of this sex crap, well: just send me a private note via the GSC email option. I have names, times and places but not so sure that would be wise for me to divulge in today's litigation environment. If each or either is ol'e corp and has now a need for $, I could see a suite coming my way.