Nathan_Jr

I'll give you an A for this. But I beleeeve El will give you an A+. Mmmmph.

The mysterious and incomprehensible as uncontrollable. Mmmmph! Victor needed to MAKE it simpler to fit his shallow awareness and perception so he could then TEACH it. Hands in gloves. Mmmmph.

VPW said that? "Accept it by faith?" The faith OF Jesus Christ? Surely not by the faith IN Jesus Christ? Because faith is something we have; beleeeving is what we do. Or, did he mean believing faith? Or, by operating the manifestation of faith? Whatever victor said, it's definitely NOT God-breathed scripture, because it's not interpreting itself.

I don't have a theological dog in this fight. But it's worth it to me to tell you that much of what you wrote describes a man I know who died from unbelief brought on by fatigue. This man was fond of sterling silver bracelets engraved with phony credentials. He and Bill Cosby had much in common. Anyway.... small world.....

Not sure if every religion instructs their children in the same way destructive cults like TWI do, but every cult certainly does rub in by repetition in some form. Is that what I made it sound like or is that what you wanted to hear? I want to be clear, so, please know: I am an equal opportunity critic when it comes to ideology like religious dogmatism. I don't discriminate. But abusive cults like TWI have earned my extra special criticism and disdain. *Stayed -- I just realized your post was a response to Bolshevik, not to me. But I'm still ok with this post - what it means, says, in the context, etc. Which is to say, I hope my post will interpret itself like scripture.*

Is there a trinity of moderators? Do they work together as one? Or are they pros - distinctly separate, yet not the same?

I did earlier today.

Thanks. For some reason I beleeeved you were one of the mods - another problem with beleef. I sent them an email about it hours ago.

Agreed. Can you move it there, T-Bone?

Thanks Bolshevik. Well said. The usage is determined by the context of the propaganda. Reminding one's child of appropriate behavior like cleaning their room or using good manners is not what I'm pointing to, nor is it what the text of the slide is talking about. I have to remind my son all the time, repetitively, not to beleeeve everything he sees or hears. I'm not forcing Soma down his throat by reminding him of this. To dull a sharp object one must rub it with pressure repetitively. The propaganda here is about the dulling of one's sensitivity, perception, awareness, critical thinking, ability to learn, ability to love. It's about memory by rote. It's about programming children to be zombies of the cult.

It could have been, but I just don't remember now. The notes and photos are in a phone I no longer possess. There is a channel on YouTube that has hundreds of recordings of Vic's sermons. Some record this exact thing we're talking about - reciting poetry without attribution or credit. (Anyone can find out for themselves, if they don't BELEEEVE this discussion.) What I do remember is being so disturbed by what was going on in that moment. When the tape of vic's holding forth ended, I announced the name of the author to the fellowship, hoping someone else might have been as curious as I. But, no. I felt nothing but the stinging darts of silent contempt and disdain, presumably for outing vpw, but more likely for not having a dull mind, the type of mind that results from allowing "rubbing in by repetition." The fellowship I attended was comprised entirely of my ex wife's family. Their leader (their "father in the word") and his wife went Corps in the late '70s or early 80s. They were family corps around 85-86, I think. They cling to victor and his writings even more fervently than Mike - they would NEVER read or study any other version of the Bible than the KJV. And they would say, "What does it matter? You heard the Word and Will of God today. Be thankful." They worked diligently to renew my mind for me by rubbing into it repeatedly that there is only one true cosmological/spiritual hierarchical order: God Jesus Christ Paul Victor

It's important to remember that off believing is an early sign of stopped believing. Stopped believing, or dying, is caused by fatigue, obviously. Rubbing children can keep them awake, or at least massaged, while mail order MOGs are holding forth.

My son's mother used to carry a wooden spoon in her purse, no doubt encouraged by her family who were strict vpw adherents (they left in '86). Obviously, child abuse is not limited to physical abuse. As you know, the narc doesn't need to lift a finger to reek devastating abuse and trauma on his target. "Rubbing in by repetition" is how children are raised, taught and indoctrinated in North Korea.

It has occurred to me this is child abuse. As a parent, I can't unsee the horror of this.

THIS!! And this: "Jesus said, 'Do not lie.'" --Thomas, Logion 6

Right! or..... DEFLECT IT

No. This was just a few years ago. I was born in the 70s.

Thank you, Word Wolf! Victor plagiarized poetry ALL. THE. TIME. The first time I noticed this was in a fellowship meeting that was held forth in our house because the coordinator's house was briefly occupied by devil spirits. Instead of the coordinator holding forth with his own teaching, he played a tape of one from vp. Victor opened the sermon with an unattributed poem. The official TWI supplemental printed materials also included the poem with no attribution. Victor never claimed he wrote the poem he read, but he never gave credit, honor or tribute where it was due, either. The way the poem was read, how it was situated strategically in the sermon, the context... EVERYTHING about victor's reading and reprinting this poem implied and suggested that it was written by the little man reading it. I remember asking the "leaders" and "teachers" about the poem's author - was it vp's? They shrugged and changed the subject. I looked it up on my phone to find it was a woman. The sycophants, still reeling from Vic's tremendous holding forth, became obviously irritated with my finding. Their urge to lovingly correct me was palpable. Apologists for vp's serial plagiarism usually cop out with, "What does is matter?" Well, it matters EVERYTHING! Plagiarism is a lie. It is thievery. It is deception. Why do this? Why choose to prove you are the liar, the thief, the deceiver?

I remember the earlier post on Moody. Thank you, T-Bone, for all you've done here over the years. The claim to not remember the past is a hedge used to mitigate potential exposures in the future. Almost every "sermon" or "teaching" from vic contains one or more of these hedges. They are subtle. One doesn't need to manufacture this cunning feature of deception, but one needs to pay attention and be vigilant. His con game runs so deep, it's pathological. The word salad is so fluffy and distracting, it leaves one's head spinning - this is by design. I thought renewing of the mind was about toeing the line, conforming to Way think, filling the mind with the program. Would he use believing faith or would he operate the manifestation of believing to renew his mind for improved memory?

It is an ATHLETIC spiritual competition.

Holding forth is the how (H-O-W) to teach. Teaching is rubbing in by repetition, and you rub in by holding forth. It all fits like a hand in a glove embroidered with credentials.

This is an example of their private interpretation. It's like unlocking a door without a key. If you don't know what to do with that key once you've got it, what use is it? I mean, c'mon people!! Death doesn't happen naturally or even by serpent seed. That just doesn't make any sense. And it's your job to MAKE it make sense, if you want to stand while walking. That's right. Death comes when you stop what? [BELIEVING!] Death comes when you stop believing. That's riiight. And can you stop believing when you're holding forth with great intensity? [NO!] No you cannot. You can only stop believing when you get tired. The word tired here should be the word fatigue. So an accurate translation, according to usage: "Holding forth until his fatigue in 1985."

"As parents, it is our responsibility to teach, or rub in by repetition." This is NOT what it means to teach. This is NOT how (H-O-W) to teach. This error is so obvious, depraved and sinister, it is vomitous. And they aren't even trying to hide it. This is NOT teaching. This is brainwashing, programming. This is darkness.

Thanks for this, Rocky. It's hard to tell if this is a victory, though it seems like a baby step in the right direction. Publishing that database is huge, but so is concealing it for years. It's like pulling teeth to hold accountable anyone in this country who can get themselves called reverend. I live in the heart of Southern Baptist country at the buckle of the Bible Belt. None of this surprises me. And Southern Baptists aren't the only ones guilty of this type of widespread, systemic abuse in the Church. Sex crimes against children or the disenfranchised is partly about sex, but it's completely about power and control. These cases are especially sinister because they are executed by those in positions of authority who claim to know God or his word better than anyone else. This sad song has been on repeat for thousands of years.