Mark Sanguinetti

Happy birthday Robi. I hope you are doing great.

Jerry, I read and enjoyed your long winded post. Chuckle, chuckle, chuckle.

Erick: "What can I do to help you ask?" In case you were not aware of Grease Spot Cafe etiquette. About the Way is a good place to put to practice compassion for your fellow posters who have experienced harm at the hands of cult leaders. Doctrinal would be a good place to state your scriptural beliefs as long as you are open minded to others doctrinal insights and views. The above would be a good start here in your service to the body of Christ.

Erick, I am sure you mean well. However, I don't think you are objective enough to the sins and doctrinal errors of VPW to be of much help in Christian ministry, yet. Have you written anything of biblical value that does not have Way Ministry theological blinders? Something that can be of value to all Christians and not just Ex-Way people. I have done this. So has Rafael and so have a few other people that have posted on Grease Spot Cafe. To the best of my knowledge you have not. And if you have why haven't you posted some of this in the doctrinal section here? Erick, I am sure you mean well, but you are still very new to being away from TWI hypocrisy. It is going to take you more time to break away from this snare.

Mike: At the very least this is the wrong thread for you. You have not influenced anyone here. All you have done is prove that your position is absurd. And frankly the more you post the more people will see that your position is absurd. I guess that is good, but your ignorance is antagonizing some of the posters here. Some people actually want to have a bible discussion regarding which parts of PFAL are true and which parts are not true. Now is that to much to ask for? [This message was edited by Mark Sanguinetti on January 28, 2003 at 17:35.]

Yea, Troubledwine Rocks. He is an excellent bible student. One of the very best that I have seen on Grease Spot Cafe. It has been a long day for me at my business. It is now my nappy nap time. I better go and locate my bankie.

Hi Jerry: How is everything bro? Yea, I hear you Jerry. Actually though, some of us like Mike because he is a text book example of PFAL, when taken to idolatrous extremes, is very harmful. All we have to do now is point Wierwille Apologists in the direction of Mike's posts and say "this is where PFAL worship can lead you." They get one wiff of Mike's act and straighten up very quickly. Much quicker than by your or my persuasion alone. Thanks Mike. We greatly appreciate your input on Grease Spot Cafe. However, a few people actually take you seriously and are worried about your sanity. For there sake will you please occasionally write something intelligent. You know something that you have not read from one of Vic's books.

Thanks Kathy: Please pass me some of the Picante Salsa. I hear it is hot just like the Raiders.

Hi Mike: I really don't have time to read your long posts, but I just wanted to wish you well. I hope you had a relaxing time at your local pub and ate some good food.

Hi Buck: Yes, Buck Doop is who I was thinking of. The last time I talked to him he was a Way leader in one of the Dakota's as I recall. He is a good guy. A real people person. I was hoping to say howdy. Maybe I will run into Jim here in California some day soon. When I do I need to remember to ask him about Buck. Thanks!

Hi Buck: Do you have a brother, or maybe he is a cousin, named Jim?

Yea E.W. Bullinger. I have tried to tell Mike that his posts are too long a number of times. He just won't listen. He is on a mission from God I suppose. Only it is very clear that his God is the memory of Victor Wierwille. Mike what do you think of Georgio Jessio's posts? He has first hand experience regarding Victor Wierwille's very selfish sexual lust and he is not afraid to speak the truth about this.

Geez Mike. That was a quickie response? I knew I should have studied harder in that speed reading course in school. But the most important thing is that the score was S.F. 49ers 39, N.Y. Giants 38. It was quite a game and I was at 3 Com Park in San Francisco today to witness it. Had to have been the most exciting football game I have ever seen. So Mike, what do you think of Georgio's recent posts? Specifically, what do you think of Wierwille's well known sexual lusts? I might add Georgio is only one of the many witnesses to this.

Mike: Perhaps I missread your post above. Are you complaining about the way that you have been treated on Grease Spot Cafe? I and others don't mean to mistreat you. However, your posts perhaps seem judgemental to others. Perhaps, you should change your message. Perhaps, you are the one that needs to be more practical with your religious advice. Perhaps, you should try to help others instead of constantly preaching the word of Victor Wierwille to everyone.

Mike: I have read posts on Grease Spot Cafe for many months now. I have helped a number of people here. Grease Spot Cafe is an internet community. It is a team. When I am able to help an individual I do so. However, every believer has their gift of service to the body of Christ. When I see an opportunity to help I do so. Others are able ministers also. Even people who don't call themselves Christians can be very helpful.

Mike: Your last post is to long for me to read. I have told you politely that you should shorten them. My beliefs, unlike yours, are not set in concrete. I learn new things from the bible almost every day. When I learn new things that contradict what I have previously believed I change what I teach. You are very fortunate that I shared my paper on the Lordship of Jesus Christ with you. Although, I worked a number of years on that one I am always open to reasonable feed back. I also wrote it with the intent that people can learn the knowledge that I have to offer in it with as little time and effort as possible. If you want me to read your posts you will have to shorten them just like everyone else. It is nothing personal. I am just to busy. However, thank you for at least addressing what you had to say to me at the beginning of your last post. [This message was edited by Mark Sanguinetti on January 05, 2003 at 0:57.]

Mike: PFAL was a class. It should have been periodically reviewed. If errors were found of any kind, especially doctrinally, it should have been redone one segment at a time. TWI had the resources to do this. The reason why this was not done is that Victor Wierwille was not meek enough. The most important thing to him was maintaining his aura of teaching perfection. He was the pope of TWI. What he spoke doctrinally as president of TWI was some how perfect just like the pope in the Roman Catholic Church speaking to Roman Catholics. Later Victor passed on his religious title and prestige to the most loyal yes man that he had, Craig Martindale. Victor, in spite of his ego, at least seemed to have some respect for the scriptures. When it comes right down to it you seem to have very little respect for the scriptures. Personally, I don't think you are a threat at all on Grease Spot Cafe. I think you are living proof that the religion of TWI and PFAL, taken to an extreme and out of the context of a class that needed to be improved and periodically revised, did not and does not work. Furthermore, everyone on Grease Spot Cafe seems to know this. Even the Victor Wierwille apologists, some of whom have posted for a number of months here know this. Everyone seems to know this except you Mike. Are you trying to con us or are you really that dense? [This message was edited by Mark Sanguinetti on January 05, 2003 at 0:33.] [This message was edited by Mark Sanguinetti on January 05, 2003 at 0:56.]

Hi Mike: If nothing else your posts and evaluation of Victor Wierwille are entertaining. I can't help, but laugh when I read them or think about them. Thank you for the entertainment. Now I better get back to work. My office is a mess and it needs tending to. Thanks again for the entertainment. Sincerely, Mark

Acts 19:21 21 When these things were accomplished, Paul purposed in the Spirit, when he had passed through Macedonia and Achaia, to go to Jerusalem, saying, "After I have been there, I must also see Rome." NKJV Strong's # 4151 - Spirit 5. universally, the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of anyone; the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, see 2 Cor 12:18 (from Thayer's Greek Lexicon, Electronic Database. Copyright © 2000 by Biblesoft) The word spirit in the bible has a diversity of usages. One of these usages from Thayer's Lexicon is clearly stated above. Notice in the context of Acts 19:21 that it does not say purposed in the holy spirit which would have definitely meant that this was a message from God. Instead it says the less definite purposed in the spirit. From the context and usage it sounds like Paul determined himself to go to Jerusalem and that this was not guidance from God. Here is another biblical version. Acts 19:21 21 After these things had happened, Paul made up his mind to travel through Macedonia and Achaia and go on to Jerusalem. "After I go there," he said, "I must also see Rome." TEV

Hi Mike: Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and go to the Grease Spot Cafe forum thread with link posted below. It discusses some of the errors in PFAL, the bible class that you think is God-Breathed. Incidentally, I don't ever recall Victor Wierwille making that claim. Even he did not exalt his biblical writings above the scriptures. http://www.gscafe.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc...42&m=2726097291

The Snow Storm Theology Hi Mike: You are right about at least one thing in this discussion. I do have a lot of confidence in my ability to read and understand the scriptures. You see Mike, I believe that this ability of comprehension is a gift from God through Jesus Christ and the holy spirit which he gave. I also have confidence in other people's ability to understand God's word through the holy spirit. You on the other hand seem to have great faith in a 1942 snow storm which history seems to show never actually happened. The scriptures back my faith. The same scriptures are oppossed to yours. You know Mike when it comes right down to it your religion is not much different that the Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses and Muslums. All of these religions were started by the experiential signs of their founders. You have showed your true colors and honestly your conclusion does not surprise me. Matt 16:1-4 16:1 The Pharisees and Sadducees came to Jesus and tested him by asking him to show them a sign from heaven. 2 He replied, "When evening comes, you say, 'It will be fair weather, for the sky is red,' 3 and in the morning, 'Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.' You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. 4 A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away. NIV Jonah, who was in the belly of a whale and presumed to be dead, typifies Jesus Christ's death and then resurrection.

Mike, I think I need to repeat what I said in my previous post. Perhaps, you did not catch this the first time. "Well that is encouraging. So you realize that not all of what Victor Wierwille wrote and spoke was necessarily inspired or given by the holy spirit. You know you could have come to that conclusion without having to consult the PFAL book. Then I guess that means that we can't put Victor's writings with the same esteem as Paul's writings in the Church epistles." Mike, I was clearly comparing Victor's writings in PFAL with Paul's writings in the seven church epistles. Victor's writings in PFAL are for the most part copied from other Christian teachers. Paul's writings on the other hand have a great deal of original thought and original spiritual wisdom and understanding. There is a huge difference between the writings of the two. It is like comparing the writings and explanation of someone who invented the silicon chip with the writings of someone who later found his writings and learned a small amount of what the original inventor developed and learned. Mike, PFAL was a class. Nothing more and nothing less. It was not original God breathed scripture. Jesus gave gifts unto men. There are a number of teachers in the body of Christ. You are making a serious mistake in your biblical studies by limiting yourself to the works of one man, namely Victor Wierwille.

Hi MJ412: Yea, we are all learning. However, if you ever want to edit one of yours posts after you are logged in, you can click the pencil eraser at the bottom of one of your posts. Then your post will show up again. You can edit it and then click the Post Now button again. Pretty cool really. Don't be afraid to experiment with it. And by all means if you have a problem be sure to ask Garth. I think he might do web sites for a living. You can ask me also and I will try to figure it out. Happy posting.

Hi MJ412: Apparently, you are quoting Mike from a letter written to you. You should clarify this in your post. You can edit your post and click the "..." icon. Thanks.

Well Mike. Is that true? Did you tell MJ12 that "only those who master PFAL will have eternal life?" And really Mike, for argument's sake let's say that Victor Wierwille was a good bible teacher. Don't you think there are other good bible teachers that we can also learn from? Also in all the times you were in TWI didn't you notice that Victor Wierwille did not have a knowledge of Greek or Hebrew, the languages of the biblical texts? Then if he did not have a knowledge of Greek or Hebrew then why should we need his written works for textual clarifications? One of the reasons that Paul wrote as many epistles as he did is because he was well educated. He could read and write. Yes, he also had a great heart and love for the Lord Jesus Christ, but he was also heads above the other apostles as far as education. Victor Wierwille was not very well educated regarding the biblical languages. However, he may have been a good preacher. This is possible, but he was not educated enough to make Greek textual clarifications. E.W. Bullinger on the other hand was. He even had a Greek lexicon. Through E.W. Bullinger and others Wierwille got all his best biblical material. This has been documented a number of times. Additionally, Paul said that he got his writings by the revelation of Jesus Christ. Do you see the difference?