WordWolf

This rings a bell in an odd way. "DAVID NAUGHTON???"

Thaddeus Bodog Sivana! That was the main villain in "Shazam!" Oh, the actor? Um, something Strong. Mark Strong?

I know Lord Badasss, demon hunter, is summoned whenever this song is played backwards. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/badasss/4005-29120/ When The Badger needed him summoned, they wondered what "the worst song in the universe" could be- but The Badger immediately claimed that Ham (the weather wizard) had it, and dug out his copy of "Red Sovine's Trucking Music." He began playing it backwards, saying it could only improve the song. Sure enough, a few lines into "RAEB YDDET", the demon hunter appeared and saved the day. Amazingly, back in ancient Babylon, they recited this exact same song to summon him! Personally, I think this song deserves better than THAT. It's not one of the greatest, but it's a nice song.

I sometimes find it fascinating that things that DON'T make sense often had a list of verses appended to them, supposedly to document them, but never actually gone over to make the point. The list wasn't there to answer questions, the list was to BLUFF. Supposedly, if you had doubts, and there's a supposed STACK of verses saying the opposite of what you're saying, the problem is you. Nobody ever actually read through the lists to see if they RELATED. (Some "keys to walking by the spirit" had lists like that after them, never discussed.) The standard procedure- begun by vpw- was to expound upon a rambling set of analogies and anecdotes, then go fast over some verses that SUPPOSEDLY made the point, go somewhere else with the verses, then act like everything was answered just then.

[lcm had this thing about walking around and having passing thoughts- then making big announcements about his passing thoughts because he was getting super-revelation just like vpw did! One thing he said after one such walk was "The Word is over the world!" (right after twi lost over 80% of its people- NOW it was MOST successful in spreading "The Word" and had spread it furthest!) Another thing he said after another such walk was "Owe no man nothing, save to love one another" meant all twi'ers were supposed to remove all debt from their lives and keep it that way. Both times, other people were tasked to defend his offhand comments, and claim they actually made sense when they actually did not. (No, I'm referring to lcm, not anyone unrelated to twi.) In the case of debt, people came forth with wise explanations from Scripture and wise explanations from financial experts as to why this didn't work. But no, lcm said it, so now twi was STUCK with it- and kicked people out of programs and off grounds because of it, depending on their specifics. ]

My submitted replies seem to be submitting. Perhaps the problem was fixed. (Then again, I did another incremental upgrade of my browser, so perhaps that did it. Either way, it's working for me.)

"Advanced Class '78 was our first Advanced Class...and that's probably the where and when of the first really big red flag that popped up for my wife and I. My wife got into a big argument with her Twig coordinator over the technical details of how to get born again of the wrong-seed - the Twig Coordinator was emphatic that there was a specific ritual one had to follow...whereas my wife's side of the argument was like my own, that there was nothing much taught on exactly HOW one gets born again of the wrong-seed..." wierwille's scary little bugaboo didn't even make sense on paper. Look- if we accept his premise that the devil can only make inferior copies of anything the true God makes, and can only corrupt or twist what's already there, then there was nothing before Pentecost of which to make an inferior copy! If the flesh and the spirit really are separate and don't overlap (you can't punch a devil-spirit with a flesh fist), then what flesh-and-blood ceremony could PERMANENTLY attach ONE to the OTHER? Further, there's no "percentage" in it for a smart "devil" to make an obvious target like that! In all the other schema, we see a person, and we see a spirit, and sometimes the spirit goes to the person, and they interact- a man speaks words from the spirit by possession, etc. Then the spirit leaves for a time- short or long. There's no benefit to keeping one spirit stuck with one person all the time, especially when it's easy to just kill the flesh-and-blood person. That raises the obvious question of what that would do to a spirit that was locked into a person who, say, was burned at the stake or beheaded. So, there's no point for a devil to come up with the system in the first place, nor to lock one of his agents in place needlessly. He's not known for loyalty- he's known for feigning loyalty and abandoning people as soon as it's expedient (just like vpw- hey, maybe that's how vpw got knowledge of spirits, by direct, long-term contact...) A specific ritual makes NO sense. Flesh-and-blood rituals to affect a spirit shouldn't have an effect. it's also a twi thing that the devil tailors his approach to the times and the cultures- so a ritual used by ancient Etruscans would not resemble a ritual used by anyone in the 20th century. The subject was vague because wierwille made the whole thing up from whole cloth. Supposedly, the Old Testament equivalent were "sons of Belial" - but by usage, the only thing we ever see about them is that they have a reputation for being DRUNKEN FOOLS. (Hey, I recognize wierwille again!) Everything else was what vpw himself referred to as "private interpretation", and is also known among other people as "bull$h1tting everyone." So, one does not "get born again of the wrong seed" because there is NO SUCH THING. It did not appear in the Bible. It was simply an occult (hidden) doctrine of wierwille's, who used its existence as another control mechanism because he, supposedly, had the inside track. After all, there were no other ministries or churches out there you could learn about this! :) So, he invented a new, secret thing, and congratulated you all for being mature enough to understand it. ]

"After seeing how the first three "manifestations" were practiced and critiqued until it was seen that we could do them, the lack of any practical instruction in the other six was a letdown." [As we've discussed since then, it's totally possible to FAKE "the utterance manifestations" and to think you're doing the real thing! It takes a lot of priming, a lot of groupthink, and a willingness to try. So, lots of practical instruction on how to "speak in tongues at will" was easy to fake. Lots of practical instruction on the working of miracles was hard as heck to fake! Yes, hindsight is 20/20, so it's easy to see now.] "And was there every a definition of the "manifestation of believing" that made even a little sense? " [As a whole, the definitions were overly wordy, overly stilted, and deliberately expansive. vpw took definitions Leonard had written, then added lots of polysyllabic words until it didn't resemble the original. He didn't UNDERSTAND them, just piled stuff on. That's why he piled a lot of words onto "word of knowledge" without addressing that it said it was about something it was "impossible to know by the 5 senses." This part of the definition tripped up a LOT of people, and led some people to think that you were UNABLE to ask God for knowledge if it was something it was "POSSIBLE" you might have found out by your 5 senses. That one was so egregious that geer felt the need to fix that one- and eliminated that particular source of confusion. (He then went on to making new sources of confusion by doing things like taking out "may" from the definition- which meant people thought that operating "word of knowledge" guaranteed you'd get an answer from God- as if it COMPELLED Him to to answer! The actuality, if there is one, is that it's the supernatural ability to communicate directly with Him, and request direct responses at His discretion. But being able to directly communicate a request to The Creator of the Universe would definitely be supernatural whether or not He wished to respond. vpw didn't UNDERSTAND "the manifestation of believing", so he piled on syllables until he could obscure the issue.] "Apparently, this was wierwille's modus operandi. In closed-door settings (generally, with the way corps).....wierwille would sulk and opine his "having to deal with undisciplined corps." Yet, it was wierwille who was off-track and undisciplined. With Drambuie in hand, wierwille was a bully. " [In public, vpw was SUCH a nice guy. When the cameras were off, he was a bully.] "At this advanced class, we were led on a number of tangents.....1) The Thirteenth Tribe, 2) The Marxist Minstrels, 3) The Illuminati, 4) None Dare Call It Conspiracy, 5) Babylon Mystery Revealed, 6) Seed of the Serpent, 7) Major Denominations All Have Seed Boys In Charge, 8) 16 Keys to Walking By the Spirit, 9) Definitions to all Nine Manifestations, etc. " [As you now know, almost all of that was NONSENSE and a WASTE OF TIME. vpw's inability to tell that says a lot about him. But it sure did fill a bunch of hours of the class, didn't it? And some people felt privileged to have the secret, inside story on things, didn't they? (No, I'm not going to get political.) ] "Lots of reading Old Testament records. The Advanced Class is to bring people to full, spiritual maturity......so, were we NOW fully, spiritually mature to stand on our own two feet without twi ? NOPE. Each class, each program leads to another.....and then another. The Way International's dirty little secret is that you will always be a STUDENT....and they will always be your LEADERS and TEACHERS. In this setup, you are always subordinate to them. You are dependent on them to "teach you the word." YOU must abundantly share 20% (at least) for the rest of your life to be in their good graces to *receive God's Word on a silver platter.*" [And yet, Leonard's class- which it plagiarized- was meant SPECIFICALLY for ministers so they could complete parts of their education so they could go minister to others in their own congregations, standing on their own without another class nor its teacher. vpw added that "dependency"part all on his own.] "I had a lot of disappointing times while I was in The Way. The Advanced Class, though, was miles beyond disappointing. It was depressing. When the class concluded, I felt like a total failure because the expectation of being able to operate the manifestations just wasn't happening for me. At the same time, everyone else seemed to be moving ahead full speed. I felt like I not only failed the class, but all the time and effort I had devoted to preparing for it was in vain. Well, it's only in retrospect that I understand I didn't fail the class, the class failed me. I kind of chuckle now thinking about how seriously I took all that nonsense. " {So, you think all the people who were moving ahead, you think they were faking it because they thought they were the only ones who weren't moving ahead? Or do you think they really thought they were getting somewhere?]

¨Papa Was a Rolling Stone???"

¨Papa Was a Rolling Stone???""*

Emma Stone????

In my experience, it was. It was used by one person, who used it in the sense of "we don't think, we believe and use that to solve problems instead!" Then again, he was an idiot, but I'm sure you'd guessed that by now.

Definitely some glitches in the upgrade. At least 1/2 my submitted replies aren't going through. They're stalled on the "replying" stage indefinitely.

Any chance this is the Village People's "In The Navy?" I'd recognize the chorus, I think, but not the rest of the song.

Anything POLITICAL is against GSC rules. Since that almost ended the GSC, that's NOT up for debate nor reconsideration. Some subjects are too rife with politics, controversy, or both. A different thread with the opposite intent was shut down quickly the other year. They didn't forbid your POV, they're ending all discussions on that subject in EITHER direction (at least, at this point in time- but then, there used to be political threads once, as well.) They're not being "woke", they're setting boundaries for this board.

The OBVIOUS conclusion is that the website software received an incremental upgrade, and this came along for the ride. I´m confident the staff didn´t know about it until people started complaining about it. This actually happens a lot on line. Little changes here and there, and suddenly, a ¨small¨ change that arrived with the others is causing trouble. BTW, how about thinking of "Naruto" with this "leaf" stuff?

That's it! Courtesy of the Steve Miller Band. "Abra, Abra Kadabra, I want to reach out and grab ya."

"What I was referring to is the growing number of Facebook groups that are PFAL friendly. A number of current members of TWI have joined it. From them I saw posted pictures of the PFAL Camp this thread started with. Then they had an AC Camp. Why does everyone WANT to think I'm BSing? I saw these many groups spring up in the past 5 or so years. Some have a lot of members? How many? Go look yourselves." {The thing is, Mike, it's not that you're BSíng- because that's intentional. You're honestly mistaken. It's the same as anyone who tries to do statistics with an insufficient background. You're going to end up with the wrong numbers no matter how sincere you are. Facebook groups OVERLAP. If you have 5 groups with the same, OBSCURE interest, they're going to be composed of almost identical member lists. In the case of Facebook extwi groups, there's going to be a LOT of overlap. Further, you'll probably find a bunch of US in some of those lists- because just being signed up for one group doesn't make you a "fan" necessarily. Yes, there's extwi "fans" of their twi experience and pfal and the way corps, but their numbers aren't a fraction of what you'd like to think they are- and yes, they're aging out.] "I think that all of you have finished exposing the worst of TWI. Many out there only want to think of the great benefits they received. Whenever I mention GreasSpot to them they are SO disinterested in getting all negative, so I learned to not mention this place. " [A) No, as others already said, there's important light that STILL needs to be shined on things, especially while there's people who insist on whitewashing the worst of so much of it. I'm sure a FEW want ONLY to focus on happy memories from there. We've all discussed them, I've posted about them before- in addition to the bad times. It's PERCEPTION that it's ALL we've talked about here because here is the ONLY place anyone seems to be ALLOWED to talk about the bad times. People trying to hide from the worst of it will avoid us like the plague because they're trying to make nostalgia about a place that had no down side- which only exists in their imaginations and in their scrubbed memories of HALF the story. And that's fewer people than you'd like to admit.(You've supposedly extrapolated THOUSANDS from the handfuls you've communicated with.) ] "I think you all need some closure, after this many decades. You did the job you felt urged to do. Now you just seem to be helping each other maintain a great state of negativity. Why not turn to those things that are right in your lives and that generate GREAT JOY in your lives? I refuse to believe your lives are over or incapable of finally putting to rest the negatives of the past. Take what you have right in you heads about the gentle, true, loving God and MAGNIFY it for some other people. How many young people are you teaching the goodness of God to? Are THEY interested in all the negativity that you have saturated your lives with? I doubt that more than the numbers you doubt from me." [There's this persistent FICTION that exists in your mind and in the minds of a handful of people. To try to make yourselves feel better, you've all imagined that we spend all our lives focused on negative things, that all you know is what you've read on SOME of the posts we've made. Some of us have posted on some of the positive things, but you've skipped over them rather completely. Some of us have started ENTIRE THREADS about them- but since they don't match your fantasy of how dark our lives are, you can't even seem to FIND those threads. ]

*grabs George* Wrong title, try again.

"I heat up, I can't cool down- you got me spinnin' 'round and 'round."

Um, "Armageddon"?

YEEEAAAAAHHHH!!!!!!!!! That's the last line of "Won't Get Fooled Again," by The Who."

Johniam: ""I'm sure that it is possible to get possessed by going to a trinitarian church. Where do you think twi got half its people? " WordWolf: "Half of twi's people were possessed people who came possessed from trinitarian churches? " WordWolf: "Interesting how it's only "trinitarian churches" that are a risk for getting possessed, here. Other cults, no. Groups demanding blind loyalty, no. Actual occult practices, no. Actual devil/demon worship, no. No worries about practicing Satanists, but that Franciscan Order RCC that's feeding the hungry and helping people get jobs and housing are hazardous to your spiritual health!" /////////////////////////////////////////////////// Eventually, John responded to that wirh: "Where did I say "only"? Also...quote: Half of twi's people were possessed people who came possessed from trinitarian churches? - That's not what I posted. All you ever do is misrepresent anything you don't like." WW responds: [Actually, that's right out of vpw's playbook. Instead of saying things outright, make implications to misdirect people. IMPLY something, then deny you ever actually said it because you left it by implication. However, the rest of us know that what an average person is supposed to get from what you posted is the idea you wanted to express- that Roman Catholics get possessed all the time because they're Trinitarians- and that patting yourself on the back for not posting that phrase in exactly those words doesn't mean you've fooled the rest of us. When asked for a clarification, you flat-out refused.] John: "I don't have to give you a straight answer. " WW answers: [No, you don't have to communicate clearly at all with anyone. That doesn't mean you've FOOLED anyone, but you don't have to let your yeah be yeah nor your nay be nay. People who actually care about the Bible might find that a problem, however.] Johniam: "You could get possessed anywhere. Jack the Ripper was from the royal family. You don't think he was possessed? You could be raised in Barbie's dream house and still get possessed. " WW: "Ah, but you didn't mention ANYTHING else until called on it. But places teaching Christ as best they can are certainly hard ground to try to get people possessed, rather than, say, some kid listening to death metal and torturing animals. " Johniam: "We learned in the 'dealing with the adversary' class that the devil has 4 fronts. 4 ways of disseminating info to us. 1) society 2) religion (source of the trinity, wink, wink) 3 other people and 4) ourselves." WW: "Those categories are highly arbitrary- Categories 1 and 2 overlap, since religion is in society. Categories 1 and 2 overlap in Category 3, because people don't exist apart from society. Finally, we disseminate information to OURSELVES? Rather than just parroting back what someone taught you, really think about it sometime." Johniam: "The trinity is another god." WW: "The Trinity is how your fellow Christians- for whom Christ died- try to understand God and Christ and serve both. Ganesha is "another god." Odin is "another god." Zeus is "another god." Johniam: " VP did, in advanced class 79, make the distinction between being adamant about the trinity and not being adamant, saying that those who were adamant were possessed. I met people like that. Creeeeepeeeee! " WW: "News flash- anyone really adamant about ANYTHING, whose life revolves around ANYTHING- religious, poltical, etc, is CREEPY (providing you're not in full 100% agreement with them.) You don't have to be possessed to be creepy, any more than you have to be possessed to be a creep. " Johniam; ""Just like the adamant trinitarian, you must think you are smarter than God if you disagree." WW; "[Where did I disagree with that? Oh, that's right- in your imagination I disagreed with that. I didn't say the doctrine of the Trinity was CORRECT, nor did I imply it. On a different subject, is there a verse that says that if you're a Trinitarian, "you must think you are smarter than God"? There's plenty of Trinitarians who are sure that God is amazingly smarter than them, and believe in the Trinity. Pope Francis seems to be a humble man of compassion and piety, very much the kind of Christian to minister to the sick and poor and so on- and he's a Trinitarian and quite certain of his position. According to your previous post, adamant Trinitarians are supposedly possessed. (vpw said it, that settles it...) ] Johniam: "You claim you are "trying to understand God"???? Not trying very hard. God says thou shalt have NO OTHER GODS before Him. What part of no other Gods don't you understand??? " Johniam; "John 8:12 - the pharisees therefore said unto him, thou bearest record of thyself, thy record is not true. In other words, hey, Jesus, that's just your opinion. Same self righteous tone as in WWs and Waysider's last posts." WW: [It's fascinating when vpw apologists resort both to strawmen and insults when replying to me. They can't refute my points, so they change the subject and pretend they did refute them. In this case, pointing out blatant errors in vpw's classes- which I did= was equated with Pharisees dismissing Jesus. Wow, equating Jesus' in-person teaching with vpw's classes! That's amazing.] Johniam: "I recall one encounter with a person who was adamant about the trinity. I tried to point out 1 Tim 1:5, one God...one mediator between God and men...the man Christ Jesus. Not the God/man, the man. The idiot came back with...a mediator has to be fully partaker of both. Not correct. A mediator, by definition, is a third party, agreed on by the other 2 parties to resolve a dispute. For example, in major league baseball at times, a player will demand X amount of money, but the team says no, we'll give you less than X. So a mediator is hired to resolve the dispute. The mediator in this case is called an arbitrator. This arbitrator is not a player or an owner. He/she cannot be full or any percent partaker of either. If he/she was, it would be a conflict of interests. " WW: [I'd certainly agree that a mediator is supposed to be impartial, and thus neither of the parties between whom he is mediating, and not a member of EITHER party or of BOTH parties. The concept of the conflict of interest isn't terribly modern even if the term is modern. (The same is true of power of attorney- an ancient concept with a modern name.] Johniam: "Jesus is not any percent partaker of God. He is a man, but all other humans are sinners. Jesus was tempted in all points, yet without sin (Heb 4:15). (Pssst...God cannot be tempted Jas 1:13) This is the ONLY thing which qualifies Jesus to be a mediator between God and man. " WW: [I'd agree, obviously, that Hebrews 4:15 and James 1:!3 contrast Jesus with God quite neatly- God CANNOT be tempted, and Jesus WAS tempted, therefore, at the very least, they can't be the same being and are not the same being.] Johniam: "Just like the adamant trinitarian, you must think you are smarter than God if you disagree." WW: [Where did I disagree with that? Oh, that's right- in your imagination I disagreed with that. I didn't say the doctrine of the Trinity was CORRECT, nor did I imply it. On a different subject, is there a verse that says that if you're a Trinitarian, "you must think you are smarter than God"? There's plenty of Trinitarians who are sure that God is amazingly smarter than them, and believe in the Trinity. Pope Francis seems to be a humble man of compassion and piety, very much the kind of Christian to minister to the sick and poor and so on- and he's a Trinitarian and quite certain of his position. According to your previous post, adamant Trinitarians are supposedly possessed. (vpw said it, that settles it...)"] Johniam: "You claim you are "trying to understand God"???? Not trying very hard. God says thou shalt have NO OTHER GODS before Him. What part of no other Gods don't you understand??? " WW; {b][Poor reading comprehension is showing here. I posted that the Trinitarians are trying to understand God. I never even suggested I agreed with their conclusions. I disagree with your unsupported assertion that people who believe in the Trinity are believing in "other gods." I already posted about that- Zeus, Ganesha and Odin are "other gods." Trinitarians are worshiping the God of the Old Testament and the New Testament, they pray in Jesus' name, they try to follow Jesus' example, and they show "Christian morality" in their behavior often. If they're incorrect in how they view Jesus' relation to his Father, they understand behaving like they were told to behave. They're the ones who put forth a hand of compassion to help others. I've seen plenty of non-Trinitarians who think the only important behavior is to condemn Trinitarians for errant doctrine, and care nothing about helping others. I'm sure you're certain it's far more important to eschew the Trinity than to help others, and I'm certain the opposite is true. God's tendency to answer the prayers of Trinitarians and Unitarians with identical alacrity seem the strongest statement on how God feels about it. If it was that important, one side would get their prayers answered, and the other would get lots of visions about how they'd have to mend their doctrine before He'd answer. The Trinitarians, for whom Christ died, are just as sincere and devout as you- I'd argue a number are moreso. I'm not prepared to see them do the right thing and get prayers answered, and still condemn them for errant doctrine. If you are, then perhaps it's really YOU that think you're smarter than God, since you sound like you'd take Him to task for answering their prayers as fast as He answers yours. Or, more to the point, you may think vpw was smarter than God, if adhering to his doctrine means God's off the ball for answering the prayers of the Trinitarians. If you actually believed I thought I was smarter than God, or even in His ballpark, it would demonstrate an inability to understand my posts. I'm not convinced that's a genuine conclusion based on what I've posted rather than what you've imagined I've posted (like imaging I was talking about myself when I said "the Trinitarians."][/b]

"There are so many thousands of these kinds of grads out there that I meet them all the time on the net. " So, you know there's THOUSANDS of these kinds of extwi/pfal types because you've interacted with single digits of them, and extrapolated that there's 1000 you don't meet for every 1 you do meet. That might work in a population of 10s of millions of radio fans or TV show enthusiasts, but there just don't EXIST the MILLIONS of extwi/ expfal for such an extrapolation to be warranted. By that same logic, 1000 LARPers moved from the USA to South America because I know of ONE who has done so- and for every ONE I know of, there's 1000 out there I do NOT know but are somehow there, anyway. Considering that more people die of old age that were extwi and expfal than are currently being introduced to it, I'd say that there's thousands of extwi and expfal, and possibly a few tens of thousands- but that also includes all the people who've posted here and condemned vpw, pfal and twi. If there were even hundreds of thousands, you MIGHT have a big enough population to encounter anew with some regularity. However, the overall population to draw from is just too small to warrant extrapolating 1000-1.

That last part is how there are fat people with malnutrition- they are eating plenty of CALORIES per day, but are not eating enough NUTRITIOUS FOOD per day. Not enough veggies, not enough fruit, and you can have all sorts of health problems. Granted, tiny amounts of fruit or vegetable in a day can prevent something like rickets, but that amount is far short of what we need in a day to avoid malnutrition.