WordWolf

Personally, I think EVERYONE's dander should be raised a bit over this, and I have difficulty with the idea that some people, apparently, are just fine over this. I think it's WORTH some outrage.

That was the famous "line in the sand" time, circa 1989, when lcm demanded an oath of allegiance, and fired any leader who said they were loyal to the ministry, but absolute allegiance to lcm as the leader. (They claimed the right to think for themself, and to identify error if they saw it.)

Usually, when tempers flare on messageboards, I recommend people log off and take a brisk walk around the block. I've found it helps me quite a bit, and doctors recommend the mild exercise for a number of reasons.

If one insists on spiritualizing the organization, one should be consistent and admit that, yes, the program was CLAIMED to replicate life in the first-century Christian church, and therefore the Christians in the Book of Acts. If one was to do that, one should be consistent and actually examine the Book of Acts, and compare it to the program. Even a cursory review would show there was a huge DISCONNECT between the CLAIM- 1st century Christian church- and the PROGRAM- which CLAIMED to be based on the 1st century Christian church at some points, and at other points were claimed to be based on the US military and so on. In the "Heart of the Way Corps" series, vpw HIMSELF mentioned the military claim WITHOUT making the 1st century claim. He said OUTRIGHT that he looked at how the US military got commitment from its soldiers, and said he'd considered that the military was bigger than God since it got more commitment from its people than God did. (He was, of course, using a figure of speech about the military being bigger than God-sarcasm.) Of course, if one accepts vpw's own claim that the corps was based on the US military (and rejects vpw's own claim that the corps was based on the 1st century Christian church), there's an additional problem. vpw wanted the COMMITMENT of the military-but didn't study its structure to see how they did it successfully. He has no background in the US military, and there was no ex-military advisor in twi designing the program, or evaluating all aspects at the planning level, or vetting the steps. In fact, the first exposure to the REAL military with the corps was early corps like John T entering the corps. How much did vpw value his input on what the early corps should be like? In TW:LiL, vpw himself derides the training John T received in the military. In conclusion, vpw claimed, at different times, to have based the early corps on the 1st century Christian church, and on the US military. However, its lack of resemblance to EITHER indicates it was based on NEITHER. vpw seems to have wanted a group of people to be committed and loyal, and used trappings of the 1st century Christian church, or the US military, when either suited him, and discarded either when they didn't suit him. ======== Oh, and before anyone "reads into" what I wrote, that doesn't mean there weren't many fine, committed Christians who were IN that program. I don't think their excellence as humans or as Christians can be attributed primarily to the program. They were fine individuals before entering, and would have been so without it. Even the most horrible programs, if quality people are allowed to join it, are bound to have a few excellent grads. That's a matter of statistics, just as the most excellent program will eventually have failures or "washouts." That's going to happen eventually no matter what, at SOME point. That's why EXCEPTIONS are not to be considered the RULE. (And, at least compared to later corps, the early corps was hardly "the most horrible" program.)

"... So the guy staggers to his feet and goes back to the girl. She smiles, looks him right in the eye and says "Just try that in hyperspace!"" "Ah, I see. So the difficulty in attaining such complex positioning in a zero gravity environment, coupled with the adverse effect it would have on the psychological well being of the average human male, is what makes this anecdote so amusing. Yes. Very humorous indeed. Hysterical, in fact." Geordi's trying to teach Data humor again. "Swimming is too much like bathing." Worf, like other Klingons, seems not to like water in general, other than for bathing. "The Klingon Way" speculated that's why Worf considers prune juice "a warrior's drink"- it is nothing at all like water, as beverages go. "I am receiving a Code Forty-Seven." Walker Keel sent a Code 47 Emergency Communique- no records are to be made of the communication. "You're using a Code Forty-Seven! I have to know what this is all about." "Not over subspace. No." Keel wasn't taking ANY chances. "In a manner of speaking, it is nothing but a lifeless hunk of rock, a useless ball of mud, a worthless chunk of --" "Thank you, Data. I get the idea." Keel says to rendezvous at Dytallix B's mining colony. (Abandoned mining colony.) "Two are frigates: the Renegade commanded by Tryla Scott, and the Thomas Paine, Captain Rixx commanding." "The third is just coming into range now, sir... It is an Ambassador Class heavy cruiser... The USS Horatio." "Horatio?" "Isn't that Walker Keel's ship?" There's three captains to meet with Admiral Keel, including Picard. Rixx was the first Bolian we ever saw. Either he was not a purebreed Bolian, or there's variety in skintone among Bolians, since he had human-color skin. "Do you recall the night you introduced Jack Crusher to Beverly?" "You know full well I hadn't even met Beverly then. You introduced them." "My brother introduced them." "You don't have a brother -- two sisters, Anne and Melissa. Now what the hell's this all about?!" Keel noted the conspiracy had people forgetting things they should have remembered, so he played "remember when" with Picard until he was sure he wasn't one of them. The writers meant to follow up on this, and never got the chance. Some non-canon stories here and there have been written with the parasites appearing again. The early drafts didn't HAVE parasites-there was a literal conspiracy in Starfleet. Roddenberry squashed that flat- he insisted Starfleet and the Federation would be nearly perfect. Supposedly, the first draft was going to be another one of ST:TNG's failed "here's the moral of this story" episodes- commenting on Iran/Contra. In hindsight, I'm glad that part was eliminated-NextGen NEVER made those stories work- with the possible exception of "the Arsenal of Freedom."

CORRECT! And, as you know, the Code 47 wasn't used frivolously- just cryptically.

"... So the guy staggers to his feet and goes back to the girl. She smiles, looks him right in the eye and says "Just try that in hyperspace!"" "Ah, I see. So the difficulty in attaining such complex positioning in a zero gravity environment, coupled with the adverse effect it would have on the psychological well being of the average human male, is what makes this anecdote so amusing. Yes. Very humorous indeed. Hysterical, in fact." "Swimming is too much like bathing." "I am receiving a Code Forty-Seven." "You're using a Code Forty-Seven! I have to know what this is all about." "Not over subspace. No." "In a manner of speaking, it is nothing but a lifeless hunk of rock, a useless ball of mud, a worthless chunk of --" "Thank you, Data. I get the idea." "Two are frigates: the Renegade commanded by Tryla Scott, and the Thomas Paine, Captain Rixx commanding." "The third is just coming into range now, sir... It is an Ambassador Class heavy cruiser... The USS Horatio." "Horatio?" "Isn't that Walker Keel's ship?" "Do you recall the night you introduced Jack Crusher to Beverly?" "You know full well I hadn't even met Beverly then. You introduced them." "My brother introduced them." "You don't have a brother -- two sisters, Anne and Melissa. Now what the hell's this all about?!"

Four dead in Ohio. How many more?

It's not e.e. cummings, and it's not Ogden Nash. And I've READ this poem, and I'm sure I can't name the poet.

It is indeed Meatloaf. It is indeed "Bat Out of Hell", from the album of the same title. (Lyrics by Jim Steinman.) I was getting ready to post a big block of lyrics. Meatloaf's best songs seem to just go on and on, don't they? (Me, I like them that way.)

Is this that current show, "Heroes"?

"I'm gonna hit the highway like a battering ram on a silver black phantom bike" "I can see myself tearing up the road faster than any other boy has ever gone"

*wild swing* "the Munsters Today."

VERY interesting point! Of course, lcm and the others claimed they "HELPED KILL" vpw, who, supposedly, chose to die. (WE HAVE THAT IN WRITING.) But vpw is supposedly not even PARTIALLY to blame when he drives someone else to suicide. And, naturally, all our points keep getting CHANGED to "the victim had zero responsibility" when we're saying "of course that's not true!" This is NOT about "truth"-this is about ABSOLVING VPW OF RESPONSIBILITY no matter HOW ludicrous the posts have to get to do that.

You speak as someone who doesn't understand that level of hopelessness and pain. She was giving you the benefit of the doubt. One possibility-the one she took- was that you lack experience anywhere near it, and thus can't empathize with what is-to you-foreign emotion. That is understandable. The other possibility-the one she didn't take-was that you HAVE felt that level of hopelessness and pain, and are so emotionally selfish, or emotionally numb, that you cannot, or will not, extend enough pathos to someone else who's felt that, and instead of offering empathy or at least SILENCE (many of us chose to say nothing on the subject), you instead started in with how it was shameful for the person to commit suicide. Well, duh. We knew that, but what needed saying was how they GOT to that shameful position. Suicides generally don't kill themselves because they're feeling PRIDE or feeling GOOD about themselves. I think you are CAPABLE of extending empathy IF YOU WANT. Instead of only exercising it for the criminals of twi, how about trying something novel and extending it to the VICTIMS at some point? You wouldn't have to do it ALL the time if you found it too taxing, but if nothing else, it could be an educational experience. It certainly would be more novel than your habitual painting of rascal as "lying".

"... So the guy staggers to his feet and goes back to the girl. She smiles, looks him right in the eye and says "Just try that in hyperspace!"" "Ah, I see. So the difficulty in attaining such complex positioning in a zero gravity environment, coupled with the adverse effect it would have on the psychological well being of the average human male, is what makes this anecdote so amusing. Yes. Very humorous indeed. Hysterical, in fact." "Swimming is too much like bathing." "I am receiving a Code Forty-Seven." "You're using a Code Forty-Seven! I have to know what this is all about." "Not over subspace. No." "In a manner of speaking, it is nothing but a lifeless hunk of rock, a useless ball of mud, a worthless chunk of --" "Thank you, Data. I get the idea."

So's the spy-boy, as was mentioned in the 2nd link I linked. There's a number of versions of this song, and there's different people mentioned, both at the beginning of the song and later on.

Right. "It is far easier to whisper advice from behind the scenes rather than risk its merit at the point of attack." It's easier to ADVISE the king than to BE the king... "D*, I KNEW I was getting hosed." Ralph, discovering the King of Zambisi could marry whoever he wanted. "We'll put the velour industry on full standby." His assistant, Cedric, on hearing he'd redecorate his private apartments. "On the contrary. You are a good and decent man, and you've acted honorably. I shall try to follow your example." "We've got nothing in common and she's got a voice like a tuba. If she had her way, we'd have sex on a bed of nails on national television. But at least the party stinks." Just before the meltdown at the reception. "Hey, homes! Whas happenin'! Gimme quintet, brother!" "I do not comprehend, Your Majesty!" Meeting the King of Zambisi, and thinking "jive" was his native language. "That's right! String him up! Wanker!" A British guy, watching on television as Ralph settled some overdue business. I think this movie was a LOT more entertaining than most people might think. So long as one remembers it's meant to just entertain, of course.

"I'm gonna hit the highway like a battering ram on a silver black phantom bike"

It wouldn't surprise me if that's the phrasing of one opening. It's been covered MANY times, among the artists were the Grateful Dead. The curious can look here for some information about the song. I think it's worth reading, but I'll spare the dissenters by just leaving the links. :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iko_Iko http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mardi_Gras_Indians That part on "hierarchy" makes the lyrics make sense, at least the "spy-boy" versions.

Well, we'd need a criminal lawyer to tell the difference. I know what I know as a layman. Trying to answer based on that makes my answer sounds contradictory. I know that the difference between murder and manslaughter is in PREMEDITATION. In both cases, one person kills another, but a murderer intends malice. Murder in the First Degree means the death was intentional, Murder in the Second Degree means the death was inflicted when HARM was meant, but the death resulted anyway. Manslaughter usually results when something else was intended. Then again, what I know, since I'm a layman, is hardly the whole story. Criminally-negligent HOMICIDE results without someone MEANING the death or harm of the other. ========= Then again, there are posters here who would say that-unless vpw pulled the trigger on a gun, drove in a knife, shoved them off a cliff, then vpw would be COMPLETELY INNOCENT of ANY wrong-doing. Of course, they're laymen ALSO, and skip all the levels like criminally-negligent homicide. Driving someone TO suicide, I expect, IS a crime, but I lack the legal background to identify the SPECIFIC crime. I know it's not Murder in the First.

Something that didn't hit me until now..... Notice how vpw puts the blame on the woman who was brought in. rather than the King or anyone in power who BROUGHT her in. SHE was the sex fiend- but someone else BROUGHT her in Some people will think that means nothing. I think the rest of us will say that says a LOT about the speaker. I've read this before, but I don't know how I missed it until now.

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/audio-sound-clips.html Clip 5 from the top. As someone said once, "these things were not done in a corner", this was common knowledge.