WordWolf

Either the four owner's of the property didn't understand the law about corporations, or did, and felt it was the best way to proceed. No matter which, none of the Wierwille children are entitled to anything. To think other wise is incorrect. I think it was meant that there's a moral principle involved that's separate from the legal considerations. No one challenged the letter of the law. What one is REQUIRED to do by LAW is not equal to what one's conscience bids one do because it is right. The Way has insisted it was the Wierwille family who had Mrs Wierwille placed in the nursing home and at no cost to them. No one from the Wierwille family has disupted this claim. J.P. has leveled this and other charges against TWI, so he could counter them if he wanted to. Even though TWI has hurt many people, accusing them of not taking care of Mrs Wierwille is unfounded. And to say the Wierwille children have some right "in principle" to the ancestral homestead is simply not accurate. If it were, if you purchased a piece of property, the seller's children could come forward and claim the property as theirs "in principle". Forget what it was like in twi? Even if a family member had full "power-of-attorney" and signed documents kicking Mrs W from her house, I find it beyond credible belief that twi didn't lean on the signator. twi had a moral imperative to take care of Mrs W. If they can find ways to have slave labour take care of Rosa-lie's house, and justify annual board meetings in exotic locals while everyone else is on vacations to exotic Dayton, then they could find a way to care for her. Can they be sued for breach of promise for breaking their promise? I doubt it. Did they break their promises? I think that's almost self-evident. They were charged with taking care of her by vpw, Mr "greatest Christian since Paul". They agreed.

I don't think VP ever said that he came up with the idea independently. I know-even when looking right at the exact quotes, you'll read them differently. The rest of us can READ, however. As I've done before, I'll REpost the relevant quotes... ============ This is the ENTIRE preface to the White Book, RTHST, Receiving the Holy Spirit Today... The truth of the matter is that the contents of JE Stiles "Gifts of the Holy Spirit", and content by Bullinger and Stiles form the ENTIRE contents of RTHST. You SHOULD know that-you own a copy of Stiles' book! That's COMPLETELY the opposite of what he said here. None of their names appeared here. He said he used "the Bible as my handbook as well as my textbook". The truth of the matter is that the early editions of the book used Stiles' book as his handbook, guidebook, and contents. As we've mentioned lots of times, offhand comments here and there that "I learned a bunch of stuff from some guys" does not constitute proper attribution. If the holders of the copyrights had taken it to court, the suggestion that it WOULD would produce gales of laughter in the courtroom. The credit needs to be in the SAME book that's ripping off the material. Take down your copy of "Babylon:Mystery Religion". Thumb thru it. See, THAT's properly attributed. Furthermore, ALL of that book was taken from ONE book-Alexander Hislop's "The Two Babylons". How many people do you know decided not to trust Woodrow's book based on that? Correct: none. (Neither do I-and I HAVE Hislop's book.) Furthermore, what does "scattered across the continent" mean? These men were in one building, and a Kansas tornado landed on it, dropping Leonard in Canada, and Stiles, Kenyon, Bullinger across the US? It's no longer a shock that you're actually supporting that claim, but I still feel the need to point out it's been thoroughly (and throughly) discredited. Naturally, you're unaware of this, even after reading the posts. Yes it does. If he could learn something from someone-that person KNOWS what they're teaching. Imagine taking a Physics class where the professor doesn't know Physics. Ridiculous-the professor must know before he can teach. So, if he learned from someone else, that person knew before teaching vpw, which means at least one person knew, which means that it wasn't unknown since the first century. A dollar says I have to make this same point to Oldies before the end of 2005 again. Then it would have been known since the first century. No problem-if he wasn't busy putting forth that himself was some great one, unique in 2000 years.

Raf said Oldiesman saw that, fixated on the sentence Ignored and tried to use it to claim vpw didn't plagiarize most of his stuff. Oldiesman: No, he took some writings word for word without credit, like The Counsel of the Lord. THAT's plagiarism. Failure to cite may well get you thrown out of a college. It WILL make you ineligible for a Masters or Doctorate. Depending on the specifics, it can be plagiarism. We've discussed this for weeks and weeks. Adaptation and written acknowledgement are two VERY different things. Someone intellectually honest should try to keep them separate. "Adaptation" may in effect be a word for word stealing, with a few words moved around. vpw's plagiarism in RTHST 1st edition was word for word stealing. He moved a few words around in later editions. This did not magically make it "no longer plagiarism". Further, the places he wrote where he failed to acknowledge-in introduction, footnoting, etc. like the White and Orange Books-where he claimed they were all him in print- those are plagiarism because he claimed it was him. We've discussed this before. This is not difficult to understand. If you didn't have a fixation with NOT seeing this, you'd have understood it long ago.

If you played all the time in college (not just one season), then you "played regularly as an amateur, non-national player, for fun." (If you played each year in DIFFERENT sports, you still PLAYED each year.) If you DIDN'T play all the time, then it would be similar to Junior Varsity and fit there. (Yes, that means busting your hump in JV for 4 years and never making it to the Varsity team counts as the "played regularly" option. You worked as hard as the Varsity team.)

If you "lettered" in college, then you were on the college Varsity team. If not, based on how much damage you soaked up, I leave it to you to determine if it was more like Little League or more like high school football.

In one of the low-number tapes, he said he'd sat in on spiritualist stuff, and that he'd shaken hands with an apparition. He said it was like "shaking hands with someone who doesn't shake hands". ======= In other news, he did borrow from people who WEREN'T Christians to assemble his "Law" of believing (which failed to work a lot of the time, proving it wasn't a "Law".) The names "Albert Cliff" and "Glenn Clark" spring to mind. Or was it "Albert Cliffe"? Someone also mentioned that vpw said his stuff wasn't "psycho-cybernetics", but they read some "psycho-cybernetics" and it looked like it was right from vpw's stuff.

Hm. Too few responses to generalize, but the early results are that 29% of respondents exceeded vpw's sports history unquestionably, and another 29% matched it or better. (We still have no proof he earned a Varsity letter.) So much for the myth of the "athlete"...

Yes, it's "Duck Soup." You really got it just off that without looking?

If you mean her first post on that page (it's 3rd from the bottom), I did not miss it. (If you mean another post, it's not on page 12.) In that post, she asked if anyone played a guitar. She said he couldn't sing. Actually, your exact post was "Did anyone actually hear him play a guitar? -->" I read HER post just fine. I read the WORDS on your post just fine. I missed that " --> " meant "I did". Forgive me-I'm not used to that particular piece of netslang. I thought you were WAVING, and it wasn't part of the body of the post. She seemed to read your post the same way I did-you asked the question, and waved, being a friendly neighbor. Apparently, her netslang isn't up to snuff to keep up with you either. Ok, that answers the MAIN question. You were there and saw it. Personally, if you say you were there, your word is good enough for me-I need no other confirmation. Ok, that answers my OTHER question. That is, he actually DID play the guitar, if not up to a professional standard, but he did PLAY. (Probably knew 3 chords, could play backup in a pinch.) His singing ability, I got from shazdancer, was something Simon Cowell would have some unflattering terms for. I can speculate why they didn't (HE didn't) try to release it as a record, but I think I've used up my speculation quota for the rest of the day. :)-->

All attend and give heed! Sunesis has posted something especially noteworthy! *blink* *blink* Holy moley! How did I miss THIS one????? Let's check the timeframes here.... vpw grows up neglecting his chores. Harry thinks he's "preaching to the trees" but never SAW him preaching until over a decade later. As a child, he saw a preacher, and supposedly said "I want to be like you." As a teenager, he was a showoff and a bully. He's remembered for tearing up the neighborhood on a motorcycle, and may or may not have played music and sang. (He claims he did.) When he was in high school, he told his dad he wanted to study for the ministry and Harry said "he'd always liked to study." NOTHING about "I have a deep desire to serve God" or "I want to see others serve God". Just about study. vpw himself said that "First, I thought I wanted to be a doctor, then a lawyer; but by my junior year in college, I had my heart set on the ministry." So, it was a profession, like a doctor or a lawyer, as he saw it. No deep commitment then. Apparently, no deep commitment SOONER, as Harry either told the truth or he didn't. Either vpw told his Dad that in high school while he was thinking of other professions, or he NEVER said that in high school and Harry's memory added it (possible, but I'm reluctant to START there.) When he entered the seminary, the neighbors thought he was morally bankrupt. He learned to compose a sermon and get people involved. His first church was in Payne, Ohio. His first sermons were there, in 1941. There he demonstrated an ability to "preach" "good" and "active" and "get young people interested". There were no inner depths resembling what he taught later. In summer of 1942, Rosalind Rinker dogged him "on the Bible being the Word of God." He's "never heard that in all his years of school-not believing it anyway." That means that the summer of 1942 was the EARLIEST vpw believed the Bible was the Word of God. So, his entire time in college studying to be a minister, and the entire FIRST YEAR of his pastorate, he had not yet STARTED to believe the Bible is the Word of God. His entire upbringing BEFORE that, he hadn't believed it either. Rufus Moseley said, of the Spirit, years later, "I'm full, but I can't give it to you, and I don't know why." I think we know why, Rufus-vpw wasn't a real Christian at the time, so he could not manifest the new birth outwards. That's the external evidence of an internal reality he did not HAVE. ======= Bra-vo, Sunesis. Take a bow.

WhiteDove: ALP: dmiller: Whitedove: Here's how I understand this exchange. First, WhiteDove asks if anyone heard vpw play a guitar. (This means WhiteDove has not heard him play,nor seem him play, correct?) Then A La Prochaine and dmiller mention pictures they saw of vpw with a guitar. Then WhiteDove says it was the ROA family table 1974. "But none the less he did play." Um, I missed something, WhiteDove. Did their posts refresh your memory of a time you sat at the Family Tables at ROA 1974? Did you sit there at the Family Table, see vpw walk over with a guitar, and play and sing? Or, did you see the same PICTURE and have you concluded that the PICTURE means he played and sang? I've seen plenty of pictures of politicians driving a tank or piloting a jet fighter, and that doesn't mean they did either. I've seen pics of people with an eyepatch and hand-hook, and that doesn't mean they're missing a hand or eye- that's posed and that's a costume. If you were personally THERE and HEARD him strum the strings and sing something (whether or not he can hold a note even in a bucket) is a big difference from a picture. Please clarify. If you HAVE, at least let us know if he was roughly on-key, or if it was like watching William Hung perform "She Bangs". That's a separate question. (No, I don't want a professional critique-I just want to know if he was awful or at least passable. One or the other.)

Here we get to some of the classic vpw... Plus WordWolf's translation and commentary track... The famous "you can'tfind The Word anywhere if I'm not teaching you" stuff, which, considering he learned ALL his stuff from others, was a deliberate lie. Translation: So God taught me and not any human. Considering he was taught face-to-face by Stiles and Leonard, that's another deliberate lie. He's going somewhere with this... Which is why God taught me.Considering his story has at least THREE different times when vpw was ready to quit, that was quite a gamble on God's part. Do the faithful keep getting ready to quit? Let us not mention Leonard's ministry, who did itsooner and better. Got enough arrogance there? That depends on where Leonard isteaching this week. :)--> This rhetorical question was vpw saying you couldn't learn this anywhere else on the planet. As you all know, it was a lie- but a CONSISTENT lie. As opposed to when, really?

This quote has nothing to do with the news of the past few months, but I'm including it on those grounds anyway... "I need you back here right now. What'll you take to come back and work for me again?" "I'll take a vacation." "Good, you're hired."

(page-178, since "Nothing cataclysmic...") Watch this next quote from pg-179. pg-180. pg-181. Folks?

You sure it's the same person running both sites?

For those of you following along at home, that's the SECOND time vpw was getting ready to chuck the whole thing. So he issues an ultimatum to the Supreme Creator of the Universe. Please adjust your scorecards.

Summer 1942. pg-177, he meets Rosalind Rinker in Indiana. Ok, this was the FIRST time he was ready to quit on God. End of August, 1942. Those of you following along at home should begin your tally here.

I wasn't close. It reminded me of some stuff off "9 Lives". ==== Pirate, you posted this new one and complained about that Bloodhound Gang song? At least that was written completely as a joke! (No, I don't know this one. It's not even my wild guess.)

I shall check and get back to you on this. It doesn't sound familiar to me and I was just in that thing. The only conspicuous description I left out was the abortive attempt at a hand-signal for the group. Having packed before, I'm aware that you don't pack bulky items you have no intention to use. If he had packed a guitar, he was going to play it. If he was embarassed and packed it, he was going to play it IN PRIVATE. Even HE admitted he didn't play it at all. Nobody EVER, I mean, EVER, saw him play in the entire run of the ministry? Does ANYONE think this story even MIGHT be true?

I'm thinking that's one of Smee's lines in "Hook". "You mean an epiphany." "It's like light just struck my brain. "That must hurt." If it isn't, it's only because I was just recounting the "Don't try to stop me, Smee!" scene earlier...

For some reason, I'm thinking "Aerosmith" is the band...

Dustin Hoffman Dick Tracy Warren Beatty

Probably. Is it considered a sport? I know ESPN covers it, and some of the stuff is covered in the Olympics' equestrian events. I've phrased it as generally as possible to allow for all sorts of sports I'm unfamiliar with.

Convenient coincidence that what served God just happened to be the easy path for him. pg-177, he meets Rosalind Rinker in Indiana.