Oakspear

Two dollars for a flogging and not a penny less!

I've been studying Celtic culture and spirituality for the last several years...the Oak is sacred to followers of certain pagan traditions, the spear is an emblem of Lugh, god of light and learning.

Okay, let me see if I have this straight: LLPOF, you say that a lot (all?) of the accusations against Wierwille are false, and that you are inviting people to come down to St. Louis (I presume that's where you live) where you will refute the accusations. Or maybe just ask the accusers to pony up some proof. I'll probably be passing through St. Louis on the way to the Weenie Roast in October, but I don't have any specific personal accusations against Wierwille, having only met him twice. My beef is with some of what he taught and how his policies were carried out "on the field". What makes you think that you are equipped to decide what's truth and what's a lie with regard to Wierwille anyway?

Wordwolf: Wow...I said something that was more detailed than you did - I am humbled before thee, oh king of detailed explanations and rebuttals ;)-->

I don't consider anyone on any of the sites an "enemy". I am registered at LES, and have posted a few times, since I plan to abide by the rules, I don't anticipate any problems. As far as I know, I'm the token agnostic over there ;)--> I am also registered and have posted at the ex-JW site. I just don't see any reason to be involved over there. It would not have occurred to me to even look at it if Refiner & Oz hadn't been here at GS. There is talk about posters being "howled down" if they express unpopular views; I guess that beats being edited or banned, huh? The level of "discussions" is on par with a bunch of foul-mouthed junior high school kids. I'm not saying that places for that kind of "debate" shouldn't exist, just that I prefer to be involved in arguments where the merits of the opposing points are discussed, not the various opinions of a poster's parentage, sexuality or level of beauty/ugliness. Several who are involved take the approach that it's a haven of free speech; I guess...but can't you make your point without calling me a #@%&'n ^%$#@*&^? Finally, several posters from GS have started posting at the ex-JW site. Some (not all) of these posters have been posting what I consider foul things about other GSers. Others have been cheering on verbal attacks against GSers. Some have been flat-out lying about GS policies and the behavior of moderators. Free speech, no interference...yeah, yeah, yeah. Have at it; they're not my enemies, but I'm not about to associate with them either.

Anybody can make a mistake. We've all done it. But it's one thing to accidently click on the wrong button...oops; it's quite another to see conspiracy in others, when it's merely one's own ineptitude that's the cause of the problem.

Orthodox doctrine said that man was basically evil, fallen, sinful in nature. Pelagius taught that man was basically good, that evil was a choice that people made. This was characteristic of the Christian churches in the Celtic regions who saw body and spirit as one and not separate.

They've been looking since at least 1974. You don't have to have visited or checked with every doctor in the country to know when it's time to move on to something outside the conventional. But you knew that, didn't you?

My exposure to Way Corps leaders was somewhat minimal in the 90's, mainly because there were so few of them, and we were in a sparsely populated state and didn't get too many anyway. For several years we had a Limb coordinator who was close to funcionally illiterate. He could barely read chapters from the blue book, which is not exactly college-level material. His wife covered for him in many situations, and unless you were around him a lot, you didn't know. During the same time period we had a twig coordinator in another city who spoke and wrote as if she never attended high school. (This is not a commentary on their "heart" or the kind of people that they were)

What are the "new guidelines" that are so repressive? (my word, not Mary Cate's)

I was set to go into the 13th Corps...didn't get my money together...must not have been believing :D-->

I don't know how much Ana's post was altered by her edit...but what's the point? --> Usually she's here just looking for PFAL books and to tell us she doesn't care what we think -->

Non-belief, disbelief, unbelief, whatever-belief, should be discussed here in Open Forum according to the same standards as theistic belief. Sometimes the party should be moved to the Doctrinal Forum, sometimes not. We all have gone in different directions post-TWI. Why segregate those who haven't remained Christians?

How will we ever survive without y'all? -->

Happy birthday Steve!

Happy Birthday. Don't ever change ExC: You came all the way over here just to say you don't have time to be over here? --> Say happy birthday to the man! Now...get back to fighting, we're depending on you ;)-->

house: My opinion is that all the fighting just indicates that we can think, and not just in lockstep with what "leadership" says.

Depends on your definition of "religion". I believe that a religion can be theistic or atheistic. Examples of an atheistic religion would be Taoism, which, as I understand it, has no divinities. Secular Humanism is considered a religion by many. IMHO a religion is characterized by a belief system that is not objectively evident, and may just be the result of wishful thinking, or the originators view of the world or cosmos. Just as a Christian cannot "prove" the rightness of Christianity, a Communist cannot objectively "prove" the tenets of his dogma. To be a Communist, one must suspend the use of one's objectivity and ignore the real world. In this sense, Communism is as much a religion as Islam, Christianity, or Buddhism. What throws a lot of people off is the devout Communist's rejection of "tradional" religion as well as his rabid atheism. Atheism means "without God", not without religion.

I doubt that lack of religion would have reduced the amount of war and bloodshed, nor would everybody sharing a relgion. Look at how the medievel European states warred, and they were all Christian. Religion seems to be just another excuse that people use to dominate their neighbors.

thanks def

I have been told by pagans of my acquaintance that they do not "give the bride away" at their handfastings. I suppose in other areas or with other religions it depends on the views of the couple getting married as much as anything

Wordwolf: Well reasoned & well stated...I still disagree with you, but see why you came to a different conclusion.

If making the statement causes Zix to ask that the bigotry be kept to himself, the obvious inference is that he is calling the statement bigotted, although he has not technically done so.That being said, I find the statement offensive and inflammatory as well.

I'll take the risk of looking your dog in the eye behind your back :D-->

How so?