johniam

quote: and it brings to mind thoughts of the free-wheeling spirit of men like Tommy Crabb and Donnie Fugit and the Wichita area. What a twisted clone zone the corps program was for such free souls. It's people like THIS that, I believe, should have been left alone to reach the "unreachable." Donnie and Tommy were just as "freewheeling" in twi as they would have been without twi. They CONSENTED to be in the way corps. They didn't have to clear it through you. Those years were probably the best of their lives. Donnie Fugit once referred to pfal as the "second greatest thing God ever did", the first being the giving of holy spirit in Acts 2. Yes, I was there. In Jesus' time on earth there was no printing press, no radio, no TV, no internet, no planes, no autos, etc. So you think anybody who uses technology is somehow not of God? Technology is just a byproduct of humanity. It can be used to do good AND evil. It's incidental. So what if VP videotaped a 34 hour class on the bible? So what if he borrowed material from other Christians? He blessed a lot of lives, including yours! You post endless threads about how f'd up VP was, which paint a dreary, depressing slant on everything that was/is twi, and, yes, if most GSers haven't been to a twig like fellowship in years or decades, then they'll conclude that sure, that's what twi was. Not me, buddy. I go to fellowships regularly. We still do manifestations of holy spirit, still do accurate teachings of the word, and still get blessed by all of the 'above'. Your portrayal of twi is NOT the twi I remember. The word still tastes like honey on my tongue, another Donnie Fugit expression. How could you have spent 24 years in twi and NOT been blessed by God? Not possible.

quote: Key difference: I no longer claim a connection to a supernatural omnipotent omnibenevolent force who can do something about Miami if I pray with faith You don't CLAIM it, but you still do it. You accuse Christians of calling you a fool if you disagree with them, yet you aren't any more kind to those who disagree with you. You think you're morally superior to me, but you're just another dime a dozen arrogant blowhard who thinks your unbelieving position makes you superior to those who disagree with you. Really, you're no different than me.

quote: No he hasn't. Just people, buddy. Prove it! See, you CAN'T. You have just as much faith as me. So does anyone who has had any impact on science, history, geology, geography, meteorology or (most certainly) astronomy. So what has your holy presence done to stop crime in Miami? You got some juicy crime down there St. Louis never thought of. quote: I will not hold that book's words against you, See? You are not only are a person of faith, you are "morally superior". "I'm better than all you Christians because I don't hide behind a book that calls someone a fool". You have all the smelly characteristics of religion, but somehow you're better than they are. Good for you. BTW, I'm not attacking Raf, just criticizing his approach.

quote: Somebody prays and gets a warm feeling and they "know" it's Jesus But you can't prove it's not Jesus. Neither can Raf. You're just as faith based as johnIAM.

quote: I will not hold that book's words against you, but I will defend myself against that book's words. They have NOT stood the test of time. They are rather obviously a product of their time, offering no indication that they were written by anyone with a knowledge of science, history, geology, geography, meteorology or (most certainly) astronomy. So you believe that "science, history, geology, geography, meteorology, and (most certainly) astronomy" are truth, or, at least, more credible than anything else? Rev, 12:9 - ...called the devil and satan which deceiveth the whole world... (not just the "smart" people) Take a number. You're just one person. btw I live in Ferguson. Devil's been really busy here lately.

Me and one of my sons are going to see the Cardinals play the Marlins tonight plus the fireworks show. Should be good. Few years ago we had a Father's fellowship. Once a month on Friday nights there'd be a teaching, then we'd all drink beer. The youngest guy in this fellowship (30 plus) had to get the first beer for everybody else. He had to walk from the living room to the kitchen then open everybody else's first beer, then walk back to the living room. What bondage! Somebody should've called the cops.

I didn't think those collaterals were disjointed. I always thought one of VPs strengths was how he sequenced stuff. In one collateral, the blue book, I think, he ended one chapter with "You are rescued now"! then the very next chapter was called "You are righteous now". He was good at that.

quote: How did you feel when you realized you could only stay in their graces if you agreed with them? I left. quote: Compare these 2 approaches: A) How do I feel about the whole thing being a scam? Well, that's just it-I disagree it was a scam. B) How dare you make this all about it being a scam? You're oppressing me for disagreeing! I'll change the subject and bring up the drug culture, Mr Magoo and anything else I can think of. You'd get a lot more respect if you tried approach A a lot more and approach B a lot less. Some of you come off to me as...How dare you disagree with us? We know it's a scam. So how dare you? BTW, I'm not changing the subject. I'm contrasting and comparing. As your manner is you misrepresent me. Is that worthy of my respect?

quote: Are we discussing the drug culture or The Way International? The original intent of this discussion is not only to illustrate how Way events were often staged but to explore personal reactions to realizing you were an unwitting participant to the staging. In other words, how did you feel when you discovered or suspected you were being used to further a scam and that you were behaving in a manner that wasn't representative of the real you? So if I don't believe pfal was a scam I don't get to post??? You're just as intolerant of being disagreed with as twi ever was.

Well, the trip's over. I'm not on facebook. I would have loved to see him, but I wouldn't be surprised if he stayed as far away from tourist stuff as he could. We got off the boat and there's this guy in a bear costume and a photographer asking if you want your picture taken with the bear. Huh? Overall, the cruise was fantastic. My wife put it together as a 60th birthday present to me we could all share. She got online, made phone calls and got all 5 of us on it very cheaply. We checked and it would have cost more for me and my wife alone to go to New Orleans one way on a riverboat than it cost for us and our 3 kids to do the cruise, including airfare and what we spent on the boat. We'd never been on any cruises before so we have nothing to compare it with. Security was just as tough getting aboard the cruise ship as it was at the airport. Also, they wouldn't accept cash on the ship. Our state room cards doubled as debit cards for whatever we bought. Most food was free, but alcohol and casino required those cards. Same for gifts and souveniers (sp). It lasted a week, Seattle to Juneau and back, over 2000 miles total. We also stopped at Sitka, Ketchikan, and Victoria, BC. We heard that the average age on Holland America cruises is 76. We hoped we'd be first in line a lot. It was OK. Travel relieves stress on some levels, but creates it on others, if for no other reason than you're away from your comfort zones, but that was not as bad here. There was so much to do. The only reason we were at our staterooms was to sleep, other than watch DVDs. This boat has 10 decks. It's a big chunk of change to go, but add it to your bucket list. Lots of fun.

quote: "What's wrong with me that I don't have that?" You DO have that. You've had it since getting born again, which happened before twi. Remember the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Anything you had before twi you still have. In twi we were taught that true Christianity is not religion. Humor me. Even if that's true, religion does not delete true Christianity. We all have some of BOTH. Sounds to me like you have guilt issues over having believed twi. Sounds like you are afraid you've somehow been penalized in your relationship with God. Like you're afraid Jesus is going to say he never knew you. Nonsense. You have the same access to God. Jesus is still your advocate with the Father. I've been married 25 years. Back during our courtship and early married days I sometimes felt like I was walking on air. But over time I still love my wife, but the sappy tingly emotions aren't there anymore. Maybe I'm just getting old, but I think that's true of our walk with God as well. If you've been a Christian 30, 40 years, then you've seen God work in your life: answered prayers, peace under pressure, fitly spoken words from brothers and sisters in Christ. It might not feel as new and exciting as it once did. But God's still there, and you're still His. Oh, BTW happy anniversary. 11 years tomorrow since you joined GSC.

My first post on this was a response to Kit's saying that a shepherd doesn't gather the sheep by yelling. IMO her saying was right on the money. You were the one who made a federal case out of that. As for stage productions? Yes, it was there, but it was there in the drug culture too.

Oh, Magoo, you've done it again.

I didn't say I agreed with LCM's yelling. But he was right about one thing. We DO wrestle against spirits, not flesh and blood. How many evil spirits have YOU killed? Then what is this "warfare" you refer to?

I once had a professor who taught pre civil war US history. He was German. It gets weirder. He taught us that the word 'gringo' had its origin from the Mexican war. The last thing those Mexican soldiers heard before they were attacked was American soldiers singing a song called 'green grow the lilacs'. So "green grow" got transliterated into "greengo/gringo". Those soldiers sang that song before they killed in war. Nice. Bet some of those soldiers thought that was dorky.

By then they weren't sheep anymore they were 'athletes'. LCM once said that when he was a pass receiver in college he got knocked down and his coach yelled at him "GET UP, MARTINDALE, YOU CAN SLEEP LATER!" So if yelling helps an athlete...you see where I'm going.

Now THAT post was really boring.

I think it's great. One of the last ROAs I went to the children's fellowship tent was near the big tent and I'm walking to the big tent and I see this 5 year old kid with a nametag that says Victor Paul Wierwille. I took note of it but didn't hear the name again (grandson's) until sowers.

quote: I'm a little curious. Would you please explain to me what you mean when you say, "Sincere religious people who were full of devil spirits"?, "Baptized it and called it Christianity"? Baptized what, PFAL? "The integrity of the Word to tell on all of them"? To tell what on all of who? I'm not trying to be a smart foot, I really don't understand what you're saying. I was responding to your opinion that pfal was boring. IMO, one thing that made pfal not boring was the separation VP made between religion and true Christianity. That connected a lot of dots for a lot of people. The integrity of the word made the bible the written standard for faith and practice. We could show people from scripture that Jesus isn't God, the dead are dead, and SIT did NOT go out with the first century apostles. That's what rattled the adversary's cage and what made us a cult. The adversary's religion division's only defense to that was to shout us down. CULT! CULT! CULT! It pretty well worked, too.

Anybody see the 1996 movie Harriet the Spy? Nickelodean film. Harriet is an 11 year old girl who keeps a diary and makes observations in it about everything, including her school friends. One of her school friends she thinks is a dork. She writes, "Dedorkification takes time; you have to want to be cured". Not a bad movie Rosie O'Donnell is in it.

quote: So there's no God and there's no devil. It's all just perception? If you're God, then, yes, your perception is literally everything, but if you're not God, then your perception is just another brick in the wall and if the wall is built on the rock Christ it will end well, but if it's built on anything else it won't. You're going to be a brick in somebody's wall; might as well be the right one!

Magoo was one of the characters in the 1968 movie the Glory Stompers. quote: You know, the dirty little secret is that PFAL was, well, boring! Was it, now? Sure it was. It led to all these posts, didn't it. But, yes, it was boring. Especially all the parts where...let's see... Sincere religious people who were full of devil spirits. Baptized it and called it Christianity. The fear in the heart and the life of that mother. Plus the integrity of the word to tell on all of them. Yeah, bored the hell out of me.

So there's no God and there's no devil. It's all just perception? quote: I would phrase this as it's hard to fall hook line and sinker without cutting off opposing information from friends, family, and ministers. Skyrider has forgotten more about this than you and I will ever know.

Oh, McGoo, you've done it again.