johniam

Actually, no, you can't. They won't let me use that.

quote: There are two distinct problems with this. First: He didn't "replace what we were dependent on", he usurped our freedom of choice, what we could eat, when we could sleep, who we could date, who we could marry, when and if we could have children, etc.. Second: You are assuming what we were presented was indeed "The Word". It wasn't "The Word", it was his private interpretation of what he thought the word ought to say. It was the version that best suited his own agenda. That's all just your opinion. "Usurped your freedom of choice"??? Nobody stuck a gun to your head. Or anybody else's. All those years you believed God was blessing your life. People are always going to let you down. God never did. Yeah, I still believe it's the word. If not what IS the word right now? GSC?

quote: When Jesus dealt with the adulterous woman.....what were his parting words? Go, and sin no more. Time and time again, Jesus imparted *independence* [from sin and oppression] and NOT dependence. He didn't school the woman to a probationary program or study program. He set her free! One can clearly see the genuine and the counterfeit by observing the defining lines of INDEPENDENCE OR DEPENDENCE. If the underlying principle is to create a subset of dependents, then the counterfeit is in play. Today, many of us are dependent on things like automobiles, radio, TV, the internet, texting, cell phones, and many other appliances or machines. No such thing in Jesus' culture. The only thing they were dependent on was studying the OT, going to synagogue, and whatever it took to survive since all they had were daylight hours. All VP/pfal did was replace whatever we were dependent on with studying the word. Better than getting high. Better than a lot of things.

Sponsoring way corps to me was like ABS. Jesus said to give not expecting anything in return. I believe that. VP said 9/10 with God's blessing on it will go farther than 10/10ths without God's blessing on it. I believe that, too. The most important thing to me was that I was helping further something I believed in and that God honors that kind of giving. Like a love offering, perhaps. If someone dropped out, then, like Krys said, they gave it a shot. Good for them. I do not regret any ABS I ever gave and I do not regret anything I gave to sponsor anyone in the way corps.

Most success is based on numbers; some is based on impact. I can see that. Numbers are concrete. Impact is how each person perceives it based on their own prejudices. Hall of Fame voting is always based on numbers. Well, numbers minus steroids and gambling. Last night I went to a special fellowship. Normally, fellowships are on Sunday. Why Saturday night? Why did they ask us to dress our best (suit and tie) if possible? Turned out that one of our bretheren got ordained to the Christian ministry. Normally, I am asked to have 3 songs ready to play. Five this time. I played Wake up America, Easy to love you (Stevie Kay), Gotta be God, Cowboy's father (Dave Lutz off 'Fellow workers with God'), and Putting wings to your prayer (Pressed down). I've played weddings before, but never an ordination ceremony. Powerful stuff. Those songs aren't "old wineskins" to us. No numbers to brag about, but impact?

They're making you stay in a hotel now??? Aw, MAN! That's what they get for getting rid of the root locations. Ironically, in the twi circles I hung out in, sometimes people who were believed to be possessed were called....."hotel people". Creepy, eh?

quote: edit: It was never my intention to refute divine revelation. I was thinking more about how some people (myself included) allowed themselves to believe they were somehow super-humans in contrast to the "empties floating by". I've seen this in other fundamentalist groups besides The Way, as well. Tom Burke had a song called 'Would you like to be born again'. The first verse says,,,or would you rather be a jug. A jug is a human being with nothing inside; he's cracked but he's covered up with pride. He dresses flashy in the latest style, but he's just an empty on the rubbish pile. So if you let satan use you for a rug, you might grow up to be a jug. Personally, I wouldn't recommend trying to interact with people with that mindset. If some atheist was trying to cram their view down your throat, then said mindset might be a good comeback, but how could you love someone with the love of God if you just thought of them as an 'empty'? Jesus was the super human. He wasn't a body builder or a martial arts guy, or a rock star, politician, or anything this world likes to elevate; he had willingness to obey God 100% no matter what it cost him. All we had to do was say yes.

I feel like I have super human powers in 2 basic ways: 1)spiritual knowledge vs natural knowledge. Natural knowledge says Jared Loughner (shot AZ congresswoman) has a syndrome; spiritual knowledge says he has...something else. I believe that on many levels. 2) I can pray in the name of Jesus Christ. For the wellbeing of those I love, and for specific needs. Never cast a spirit out of anybody. Never raised anyone from the dead. But those 2 things....many so called educated people just don't DO this. Even VP said that the lack of signs miracles hurt the church. Ghandi thought Jesus was the only person who could actually DO Christianity. quote: I mean things like how your eyes could supposedly see things that mere mortals could not see, your ears could hear things normal beings could not, your sense of smell being heightened beyond the normal human range, etc. (Christ's eyes behind your eyes) At times I felt like I was acutely aware of motives and intentions from other people. Felt VERY real. At times I smelled rotting flesh around people nobody else could. Never actually saw anything. VP said he saw a fox's head from the nose up once; thought it was a spirit of slyness. Never saw anything like that. I guess I believe anything is possible, but other than the 2 general things I mentioned, I don't see miracles much.

Yeah, perhaps I shouldn't assume that everybody here remembers stuff the same way, but you guys are pretty acute with the tabloid type stuff of twi. LCM once repeated at a sns fellowship "merry Christ is dead, merry Christ is dead". He once got mad because all the days of the week and the months were named after pagan gods like he thought God had commissioned him to save Christianity from the world and God would back him up with signs and wonders or something. Kinda reminds me of what happened to Nebuchadnezzar. But I am thankful for the Christmas holiday. In my family we did something different this year. Usually on Christmas day we'd have ham, mashed potatoes, and other goodies (made by me) but this year we ate at a restaurant. I was surprised how many places were open Christmas day. The Lumierre Place casino on the river had an all day buffet 25 dollars per person. We considered going there and I'm sure whatsoever our souls lusted for we could have eaten there, but instead we went to a Holiday Inn's restaurant. Good food, not crowded, and not too expensive. Everybody was happy. Maybe I'm old enough and lazy enough not to want to mess with cleanup.

So...just disagreeing with you equals "degrading a conversation"? I see post after post of people saying they couldn't disagree with twi leadership and how wrong that was. I sure know how they must have felt.

I was merely responding to.... quote: Many wouldn't be shocked to see you reverse the situation- go to Nero's house, and berate him if he spoke criticisms of vpw, twi, etc., putting you in much the same shoes as his mom for putting him down for NOT choosing twi- whether as a "branding" or "style" or literally as she does with the official organization. I don't think Nero or anybody should just let someone walk all over him in his own house. I don't care if it's a family member.

My wife went wow in 1986 after being in the word for 10 years. She got seriously reproved for the sin of saying the word 'Christmas' by her been in the word less than a year family coordinator. Probably a common occurrence. I recall LCM actually saying bet you didn't know Christmas and Easter were cuss words at some point. I'm thankful I don't have to put up with that anymore. Waysider you don't usually lash out like that. What's going on?

I don't want to go to Nero's house. Unless his mom is a size 13 I doubt if I'd fit in her shoes.

Perhaps it is YOU who should "give it a rest" and drink one less coffee.

I guess Waysider is thankful that he doesn't have to worry about not thinking evil.

quote: I'm so worried things are going to get worse and worse between us. I don't want my son hearing her talk about how TWI is the only true religion - or how crazy I am for my beliefs. Years ago there was a semi household name in twi. Tom Burke. He did comedy satire music. I heard one time his mom and dad came over to see him. After a bit his dad starts in on him putting him down for choosing twi. Finally Tom got mad and said, "Look! You're in MY house, you're eating MY food, and you're drinking MY beer. If you don't like it here, get the f out!!!" Yes, this is not the way you want to talk to your parents, but it worked. They showed a lot more respect after that. At least, for his right to choose twi. Nero, your situation is the opposite. Sounds like your mom is in the habit of being in your house and putting you down for NOT choosing twi. Personally, I wouldn't let anyone come inside MY house and freely say derogatory things about what I hold dear.

Merry *##* and Happy *%. Didn't know Christmas and Easter were cuss words, did you? Oops.

It seems to me that, in 1994 when LCM led twi did the debt purge, the homo purge, and later the unproductive evil purge, that they all foolishly thought that..."now that we've "cleaned up the ministry" and gotten rid of the "bad people" God can once again bless the ministry and we'll see huge outreach and show the world what the "power of God" can accomplish". I guess they haven't come up with a plan b just yet.

They were forced out by the same 'A hulls' that forced many of us out. Didn't Rosalie mark and avoid one of her kids?

Richie DeBartolo, bassist for Joyful Noise, played in a band in Vegas after JN broke up. I never heard any negative stuff about that. Did he get trashed at corps night ever? Robert Schuller (sp) the guy with the crystal palace in CA took pfal. Was that before he was famous?

quote: Has anyone found daily devotional readings helpful? Met their needs? Or failed to meet their needs? Does anyone follow such readings as a regular or semi-regular thing? Having spent the past 37 plus years as one who is "in the word" I answer a resounding yes, but I'd like to qualify that. In 1978 VP said at a weekend in the word that ( he felt) the best way to build a scope of understanding spiritually was to just read the bible; no word studies, no collaterals, just read the KJV bible a LOT! He wasn't forbidding those other things, just a general 'light dispels darkness' kind of admonition. When I first started going to fellowship and taking pfal I felt so fragile and vulnerable inside that I felt compelled to spend as much time reading the word and going to fellowship as possible. Then, beginning with my wow year, I spent 8 years prioritizing the things of God and the ministry. Jobs and relationships were secondary. Nobody told me to do this; that's just how it played out. During this time I averaged 1 1/2 hours per day studying the word (including collaterals, word studies, etc.). Then I moved back to MI and became more committed to my jobs. Got married in 3 years, kids came soon after. During this time I still studied the word, but not near as much. Today I don't even read the word every day. I go to fellowship once per week and I think about God a lot and pray, but not on any schedule. I COULD find the time for that if I really wanted to, but lots of times I'd rather be on the computer or watching TV or playing guitar than reading the word. My life, my body. But during those early years studying the word was a vital part of keeping me "on course". That was how it felt. Anything I was studying was a daily devotional. Studying someone else's work was OK. I read VPs collaterals several times each. On my advanced class exam I got 98 out of 100 correct on the pfal book and 116 out of 120 on rhst. It amazes me how much reading one can do over time even in 15 minutes per day. As for meeting needs, no, daily reading of scripture didn't make me sexier or guarantee that I wouldn't get a ticket, or anything like that, but I'd do it all again.

quote: Watchman Nee was imprisoned in China 1952-1972 when he died in prison. But he still has people who love to read what he wrote. I have been receiving for a few years a daily devotional of Watchman Nee's stuff from Christian Fellowship Publishers. And Watchman Nee's "ministry" is not noted by many, but I believe he helped the Lord keep His Word alive and that he has a most precious mansion in heaven. The big question, in my opinion, is what is the legacy into the world I am leaving. I hope and pray I have helped strengthen the foundation and covering of prayer in the world, so people are more protected from the punches of the wicked one. We live in a large, global, media infested world. Sometimes, you get the idea that if someone's ministry doesn't have numbers, then it doesn't have impact. Naw! We are the lights of the world. The natural man doesn't see that light, but God does. God sees every time we bless someone. Worldly, ungodly people get much of the limelight today, but part of our hope is when WE get it. In front of the angels and all of God's people. Blessing one person with the love of God punches the wicked one.

The Red Sox really were the better team. On paper the 2 teams were evenly matched. Even had the same number of wins in the regular season, but the Cardinals just made too many mistakes at the wrong time and the Red Sox got too many clutch hits at the right time. Congratulations Red Sox. Part of this reminds me of 1968. I grew up in MI and that year Detroit had riots all year. I went to 1 Tiger game in June. Actually saw Denny McClain lose. But at that time the freeway system wasn't finished and coming from the west you had to take I96 which ended outside the city limits and we drove 12 miles on Grand River avenue through the guts of the city. The rioters had recently done their own version of Passover. Black owned businesses had the words 'soul brothers' painted on their glass. The paint mix was red, black, and brown. All other businesses were not 'passed over'. They got their glass broken. Creepy to see for a 14 year old. But after the Tigers won that year's world series, all the rioting seemed to stop. The city experienced some healing at least temporarily. Same thing with Boston regarding the marathon bombing. I know if someone bombed the arch here the whole town would just feel violated even if nobody died.

Yes, it looks very good for Boston. I recall in 1979 Pittsburgh won games 6 and 7 in Baltimore, so it can be done. If the Cardinals can win game 6 then they will have the momentum going into game 7. Anything is possible, but yeah, it does look good for the Red Sox.