johniam

What? Too graphic for you?

I had no preconceived ideas about Christianity before taking pfal. My first class was 12 new students, 10 of which finished the class. Over the years, I saw most people who didn't finish the class had help. There was some person in their life who constantly contradicted the information in the class after every session. A minister, a friend, somebody. Hard to learn anything with one foot on the gas and one foot on the brake at the same time. The classic pfal sodomization I saw was in 1987 or 88. These people really made us look stupid. It was a tape class, 8 new students. But 2 (at least 2) of the new students were plants. Not directly by the adversary, but by some megachurch reverend. To the uninformed, a plant was a term used to describe a new student in a class who was 'planted' there by the adversary for the purpose of sabotaging the impact of the class. These people were on a "mission from God". Which god? One of the plants was a pretty girl who acted very unassuming. But at every single break, like clockwork, she would run outside and her boyfriend would zoom up in his pickup truck and whisk her off during which time she would eject the mini cassette tape and replace it with another. We didn't suspect this at the time. The boyfriend always got her back in time for the next session. So these good legitimate Christians' consciences allowed them to violate a copyright. Nice. The other plant was a large bodied guy who was signed up for the class by someone other than whoever signed the pretty girl up. We had no reason to suspect they knew each other. The big guy was there for muscle just in case the girl got caught, cause you know these cult people have no consciences, they'd smack this girl around you know. The class ended and most of the new students just disappeared. At this time I was an assistant manager for a Burger King. A year later, I was working on a Saturday afternoon and guess who should walk in? The pretty girl, her boyfriend, the big guy, and another girl. I was dressed in my polished and shining polyester mgrs. uniform. They couldn't place where they'd seen me before. I said the name of the believer who signed the big guy up for the class. They looked at me, then at each other, then at me again, bewildered. I enjoyed the cheap thrill of watching them for a few seconds, then took their orders and got them their food without further incident. Even though they stole a copy of the class, I tend to look at it as...just maybe somebody who listened to those tapes would benefit from real spiritual light rather than the religious counterfeit.

Dorky is just another 'man's judgement' word with constant 'flavors of the month'. The Beatles represented several things. Creativity, rebellion, free speech, music, fashion, entrepreneurism, the adults just couldn't sweep them under the rug like they could everything else. The hairstyles and some of their lyrics are dinosaurs, but their overall impact is still felt. In April me and 2 believer friends played 8 Beatle songs in a bar that has a Beatle's night annually. We're doing it again in 2 weekends at another bar. The Beatles live, "dorky" or not.

I figured by now that several people would have replied to this, but I guess I'll take a stab. quote: Who do you think of, when you think of Jesus Christ? Jesus came to “put a face” on God – so that rather than the idea of a loving God, we got to see how God would work, in action. Jesus exemplified God in his earthly life. Jesus. The King of kinds. The Lord of lords. The only begotten son of God. The one now seated at the right hand of God. The one who is worthy to open the scroll and the seven seals. The one on the magnificent horse who leads his troops in the War to end all Wars. Jesus. The servant. The healer. The prophet, arguer, unsettler. The one who had time for people, yet avoided them too. The one who loved kids, but didn’t have any. Touchy-feely. Defiant, occasionally angry. Did all the right religious things, most of the time. Would talk to anybody. Jesus. A son, a brother. One of the lads, who hung around with a load of mates; the leader of the pack. Perhaps a bit of an oddity, not being married when so many his age were. Bit of a party-goer, enjoyed a drink or two, liked his food; didn't give parties though. All this stuff is true, and relevant. Jesus' first recorded words were "I must be about my Father's business". His last before dying were, "It (his Father's business) is finished". He had a job to do and he never lost focus of that. IMO this is a big factor as to how he could live in this world as a human and still be without sin. He is the only one who could ever have done this and be King of Kings and Lord of Lords. quote: If Jesus is the face of God, that we can relate to – who exemplifies Jesus, to you, in a way can be seen and followed now? A world leader – a politician? Mother Theresa? Archbishop Romero? The Pope? The archbishop of Canterbury? Your church minister? Your Mum, Dad, spouse, neighbour? Your boss or colleague? Medical staff? What face does Jesus wear, for you? How do you “relate” to him? There might be more than one person – perhaps most of your church congregation? (yeah, right) – that you can visualise as modelling aspects of Jesus’s life. As your role model. As for someone I could hang out with and relate to and learn from? The clergy I see regularly. Well, them more than anyone else. Certainly more than somebody on TV. Are they perfect like Jesus? No. Am I perfect to my wife and kids? God, no. In twi we were always told to see the Christ in each other rather than our flesh. I think the best spiritual leaders we had (twi or elsewhere) were those who could do that on any kind of regular basis. If you see the same people all the time, then You're GOING to look at their flesh and stereotype them just like everybody in the world does. Unless you have an extra gear somewhere.

I don't think you have to believe in God to want to help people. You don't have to be Superman, either. I think that wanting to help people is one of those appetites God put in people from creation. I suppose that appetite can be squelched if you try to help and it backfires and you get yelled at. That could even happen to a little kid. But, yeah, by the time we're as old as we are, if we have a habit of thinking about God and asking him to help us be our best, then He can put us in situations like that.

This is about 10 years ago. I was having lunch at a Boston Market. Usually they get my food to me before my coffee is ready, so I'd already chosen a booth and they called my name to tell me to come get my coffee. As I was heading back to my booth (coffee cup in hand), an elderly woman was attempting to sit in a chair. Their floors are tiled, and the chair she was trying to sit in started moving away from her and she was losing her balance and would have fallen except for ...me. I saw what was happening and in one quick motion, set the coffee cup down on a table, grabbed hold of her under each arm, slowly pulled her upright and repositioned the chair and told her to try again. She was rattled, but did so successfully. Her family, a married couple and 2 or 3 kids came over and curtly thanked me. I got the impression they thought she was a pain but, if for no other reason, the old lady must have been blessed that I cared enough to try to help her. I wasn't thinking about God, though. I was just thankful I didn't screw it up. Do I have the wrong attitude?

This has been happening for quite awhile. It's human nature taken to an extreme. The professional media people have been invasive for a long time. The worst of them have a perverse sense of power by rationalizing minding other peoples' business into "making a difference". Now that we have social networking, the average person becomes his/her own kind of journalist and is capable of the same.

I haven't seen any posts by him for quite awhile; don't know what's up with him. My family is leaving today for an Alaskan cruise on Holland America. We'll be in his city on June 4th from 7AM till 6PM. If possible I'd love to meet him. I know 2 people in STL who know him (Mark G and Karen T). If anybody can get this info to him, I'd appreciate it.

I have 2 sons who are autistic. The elder didn't talk until he was 4 or 5. He wasn't diagnosed until he was 6, and after that he improved dramatically. He's 23 now and has a job. His verbal communication is still weird sometimes, but he's doing OK. The younger just graduated HS with a GPA of 3.33 plus. Both kids know how to use a computer and receive services to help them socially. We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the special school district in St. Louis. Both kids threw tantrums at school every so often, but didn't hit themselves in the head like some of their classmates. The biggest thing is that both of them were able to respond to love like any other kid. The professional people we saw never discouraged us from interacting with the kids in our own way. Some parents of disabled kids feel so sorry for them that they don't discipline them. IMO not a good idea. Our kids responded to not only love but correction. I think most challenged kids can handle that, but some autism is more severe than others. Tzaia, I wish you and your family the best in dealing with this.

Falling off a bookcase? OK. Got it! TWI, promoting that the law of believing works for saint and sinner alike, would occasionally advertise books and ideas that were not Christian. One such was a book called, The magic of thinking big. Remember it...anybody. I read it. In one chapter a large bodied man wanted to be a salesman. But his size was so intimidating to prospective customers that he had little success. Then he tried a trick. He even practiced this at home. He would walk into the office of a customer and deliberately spill the entire contents of his briefcase, then pretend to have given up on the sale "Oh. I'm so sorry, let me pick this up and leave, sir, I'm so sorry, etc." This strategy got the person to lighten up about his size and almost always resulted in a sale. So, at least here, it did work. Excathedra, I was talking about how God is no respecter of persons, but people are, and sexual attraction is one way that people are respecters of persons.

Richard Thomas says that when he was apprentice corps, Dr. Rawlins was his biggest sponsor. He lived in the same house she did and that she was a heavy hitter, ABS wise, and she could call VP any time about anything. She always wanted to have twig after a delivery, even if it was 3AM. Overall, Richard described the experience as sometimes inconvenient, but not abusive. Come to think of it, scripture says that God is not a respecter of persons, but people sure are. Celebrity itself is respect of persons. So is sexual attraction. But, yeah, some people acted like twi people are pure and clean and don't DO that. Uh huh.

Twenty nine years. Twenty nine years before that he hadn't even gone to India yet.

quote: IMHO, once the first rape was reported, vpw was complicit in any succeeding ones, since he had a fiduciary responsibility to remove obvious risks from the program, and chose not to do so-rather vocally. So when did the catholic church become complicit the first time an adolescent boy got raped by a priest after confession?

Yeah, there was Tony Collins, Jim Schoenfeld the hockey player. No scripture on how to deal with celebrities other than "no respect of persons". There were no celebs when the bible was written. Jesus was really the first celebrity who wasn't royalty or military. The people who murdered him certainly weren't respecters of persons lol. As for JWs, I personally have never been in a discussion with one which didn't turn into an argument. Romans says as much as possible live peaceable with all, but it's not always possible.

WG that reminds me of Psycho 3. This nun gets kicked out and stumbles into the Bates motel. Norman puts her in the same room Janet Leigh was in for the shower scene in the first Psycho movie. The nun is so whacked out with guilt she tries to kill herself in the bathtub and when Norman comes in to repeat the shower scene, she'd already cut her wrists and she doesn't see Norman with a knife, she sees mother Mary with a silver cross. Norman calls 911 and they save her and Norman's a hero...for a time. But you saw Mrs. W, the nun saw Mary. That's just what it reminded me of.

Yeah, what was the context? Fifty? Tomorrow I turn 60!

There is a believer in STL who was in the 11th corps. Early in his first year in rez he said he went to John Lynn and told him he was lonely. JL said he'd get back with him and a few days later gave him the names of 4 women, one of whom he is still married to. I was a little surprised. That sounded like something you could get kicked out of the WC for. Seen as a sign of weakness or lack of commitment. I remember one year 1979 I think) when they married 46 couples not long after corps graduation. That would have been 7th corps wouldn't it? Well, it worked out for some people. I bet a leading cause of divorce among those couples is people wanting to distance themselves from twi as much as possible. Their spouse is "guilty by association". As for window cleaning, hey, I still do it, but the background leading to it may be different. I had bad experiences working for other believers. After one in 1985 I vowed never to work for a believer again. In 2001 I found myself needing to work first shift. I had a so so job and I called a believer who owns a window cleaning business and told him I would like an opportunity as soon as he had a full time route. A week later he called me. Still there. I like that I'm not under the same roof 8 plus hours per day and I like that I can schedule work around my kids' school meetings if I need to. I also like that I make considerably more $$$ than I did at the previous job.

I know this is technically off topic; we're talking about Steve Sann, not twi. I bet if there was a way to sue them by going thru the back door, Kris would've thought of it.

quote: Got something personal against Brazil? I'm just curious how that idea just dropped out of nowhere... It made me think of Dr. Mengele (sp). He hid there from not long after the war until 1979 when he died. Your points about digital trail are well taken, but if VB could get out of the USA he'd have a better shot at avoiding judgment, plus if any small group of people in Brazil still thinks he's a man of God, then they'd try to protect him there. Isn't that (people thinking he's a mog) what enabled him to do everything he did in MN and WA?

quote: If there is no Offer and Acceptance, there is no Contract. The people never AGREED to purchase the services, so there was no Offer and Acceptance. This is sound to me. I'm wondering if it would apply to the way corps. Sure, they signed up for a lifetime of Christian service, but they didn't AGREE to have sex with every guy in the inner circle, did they? Just wondering.

I bet he's in Brazil, a country with a history of harboring fugitives.

That's terrible. Never knew him, but I remember he wrote an article in the way mag in 1979, comparing being in twi with the line in the song 'Woodstock' about we've got to get ourselves back to the garden, or something. I read here that he left twi in 1985 because LCM reneged on letting BG Leonard speak at that year's ROA plus he destroyed every copy of a tape BG Leonard made at that time. Everybody I ever heard speak of him liked him. He was the limb cordo of Indiana once.

We are, whichever is closest, 1) Co participants in a support group, or 2) Co workers in sociological janitoring Proverbs 3:5,6 - Trust in the lord with all thine heart and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Aren't our emotions part of "all thy ways"? What do you do if you're having an argument with your spouse and it gets emotional and, uh, LOUD? What do you do if you've tried to be the bigger person and not respond emotionally and it isn't working, they're still yelling at you? Are you a robot if you don't respond emotionally? Are you a robot if you do? I'm just saying.

I suppose that is possible, but one thing to consider is, that until the mid 1800s it took pretty much all the daylight hours for people to survive. Nobody cared about details like that. The first president to install a bathtub in the white house was Millard Fillmore (1850-1853) and most regular folks took baths once a week. You think EW Bullinger cared about stringing chairs when HE taught the word???

quote: I WOULD LOVE TO READ THAT BOOK VP AND ME! I wonder if it's ever sold on ebay? I wouldn't pay through the nose for it, but I'm going to keep my eye out for it. Not long ago on some thread, somebody found an ad trying to sell 'the living word speaks' for the bargain price of $132.00. Ironically, that book was also a gift to VP from 21 different writers who were expressing appreciation for him. If that book is worth 132, then VP and me must be 4 figures. Yikes! I wouldn't mind reading it either, but not for that price. As for the stringing of chairs et al, VP once said that we won't believe how many rewards we will get for just the physical stewardship of stuff. I know he at least once taught the corps how to properly take care of farm equipment as a model for this. Using a tooth brush on a brick surface??? Did VP himself assign that, or did someone afraid of VP do it? I don't know if I'd ever want to brush my teeth again if I'd had to do that. I guess it's no different than cleaning the grout in a bathroom. The first karate kid movie comes to mind. Mr. Miyaggi (sp) had Daniel LaRussa scrub and paint stuff as part of his karate training.