What About It

G'morning, John. Just one question: How do you sleep at night? Hating the way yet staying there? I suppose just like all the other way corpse do. I just wish that someday people will stop saying "If there was anything better out there, I'd go there." That's a lie. There's a lot better, yet people stay. Stop lying to yourself. Go somewhere else and get a life! Seriously, I wish you the best.

Since the 401K is now part of this thread too...I know someone, a certain former Trunk Coordinator who was in his 50s or so at the time, he declared his great retirement plan: to live with believers. hahahaha So you're gonna be a sponge, ya big mooch? From Trunk Coordinator to Sponge. What an abundant life! Well, I guess this isn't so

Yep, I'll vouch for that. It's all true. Unbelievably low lifetime max--in fact, so low that when I would call the ins. company (and remember I had about 13 years of seniority, so I had a "good" plan), the reps would tell me "Now you know your lifetime max is only $xx, right?" OK, I'll give you a clue--it had 5, yep, only 5, digits. I know of some new staff people whose lifetime max was only 4 digits. Is that crazy? You can't even check into the hospital with that! When I went into the hospital, I refused to sign the financial responsibility paperwork. They can't throw you out--they have to provide you with service. So I refused to sign because I knew how low the coverage was. And about the 401K. I had it good, because of my seniority. When they began the 401K, I had I think 8 years of seniority, so all my contributions were fully vested and I was eligible for the employer contribution. You didn't know what the employer contribution was going to be, but at the end of the year you'd get a letter that had the list of years of seniority and how much the employer would contribute. At my seniority, the employer contribution was usually double what I contributed, so it was a good deal for me. However, most people with less than 8 years seniority didn't even use the plan. In fact, enrollment was so low when it began that the holy directors sent out a letter to the staff to "encourage" enrollment. They couldn't believe that so many people wouldn't "steward their finances" wisely and take advantage of this great plan that the directors so lovingly set up for the benefit of the staff. (barf barf--as if it was all for the staff and not an enticement to get new staff)

Great post. It's amazing that my own identity was so wrapped up in TWI that I have to ask myself these same questions now, even after 2 years out. I like how you organized the questions: past, present, and future. Gives me a way to think about these ideas instead of just randomly.

Rats! There goes any idea of a get-rich-quick scheme. Nonetheless, it's appalling to know that others have been treated this way also, and that we sat and took it in the name of God. That's what gets me more than anything else--it's that all these wicked things were done to good people who love (or loved) God and just wanted to do what was right.

I'd like to use this forum to begin airing some of my grievances against, unquestionably, the most abusive man I've ever known. And yes, unfortunately, I had to work with him, in the same office, for two long, miserable years. He was among the top leadership in TWI, and he wanted to be The Forehead of his region. The little dictator. The control freak. The loud-mouthed, angry communist (because you know it's their way or the highway). But one with just enough personality that people liked him. Liked him until he decided that you were f...ed up, and then he was on your case day in and day out, with a mission to make your life absolutely miserable until, well I really don't know until what. Most people he treated this way just left, and then he was satisfied because he had proved his point: that they were indeed screwed up--they left the ministry. That's what I should have done--just left. But no, I had to stick around because I thought it was totally the will of God for me to be in the ministry and that God would absolutely forsake me if I left. Those were the Fear Days, too, where if you made one wrong move apparently the adversary was so powerful that he could just knock you off. So instead I was subject to almost two years of verbal and mental abuse by this man. The first few months weren't too bad, but then he had me in his sights. And he started to make my life hell. Oh, keep in mind that as a MOG in the ministry he felt it was his duty to protect every single woman in his "flock" because she didn't have a man-head so he had to become this for her. So we'd have these conversations where I was supposed to expose these deep dark secrets about myself, and eventually everything I told him was used against me. And coincidentally Freudian, everything led back to my father: I idolized my father, I worshiped my father, I loved him more than God... Blah blah blah. What a crock: I just loved my father like any daughter would love a good father! If only the harassment policy had been in writing at that time. Which gets me thinking...does it have to be in writing for it to still be effective? I mean, even if it's an EOE law or some federal law, then an employer doesn't have to have it in writing among their company documents for it to be applicable to the company, right? Hmmm....

Hey OldSkool, what article did Time mag do?

The Devil is back...getting a thunderstorm here. And in my calloused mockery of way-speak, I thought, "We must be doing something right." People used to say that baloney. It was either "we must be doing something right" or "we're way off so the adversary can attack." Buncha double-talk, I say. They can pinpoint fellowship, the great (ahem) principle, and even all of the manifestations with these nonsensical definitions, but they don't even know what's causing the rain. They're the center of the universe, making the weather patterns happen and everything. :wacko:

Hi Java, I think you mean a bronze statue. Nevertheless, it's there, overwhelming people as they enter the auditorium. I used to give tours of the auditorium, and I always felt awkward at this part, which was the very end of the tour. In fact, it started and stopped at his statue. But at the end we talked about him, and had to point out the already very obvious five "titles" of him that were inscribed at the statue base: Father in the Word President Teacher and a couple others I forget (was it Rapist and Plagairizer?). That was the part I couldn't stand. Part of me thought it was because I never knew him. But part of me knew...it's too much HIM and not enough of God's Word. Now I know even more: not enough Jesus Christ. Why? Because VPW takes the place of the (non-)"absent" Christ. Yep, that outfit def. not getting any better.

Oh yeah, I remember that too. Some people in my area had me looking for a symbol that was on several household products, Procter and Gamble, and others, if I remember correctly. It was supposed to support communism. I found the symbol on Tide laundry detergent and reported it to some girls in my fellowship. They "confirmed" it for me...yep, don't buy this product because it's made by a company that supports communism. Years later when I'm on staff at HQ, what laundry detergent are they using? Yep, Tide. Buncha double-talk.

Here's what I know about the Prince thing. When I lived in Idaho, one of the believers--she was WC--played the guitar. She was really good and used to play with Prince, before the Prince and the Revolution days. Anyway, she was in his band, but is one of those talented musicians who hung it up for "the Word." I think that's about as close as Prince came to taking PFAL. I wonder where she is now. I know she's not WC and is divorced. Hopefully she's playing guitar and touring again. I guess if I'd have continued reading the thread, I'd have seen that you already knew this.

"Tiny" is right. With the rent that was due, some people, especially families, were actually making less money after the so-called raise than before. With friends like that, who needs enemies? Just turn the other cheek--and don't forget to say Thank You after they smite you like that.

Charles Murray is a social scientist, scholar, and published author whose 2009 Irving Kristol Lecture (whatever that is) was called "The Happiness of the People." In it he notes that "deep satisfaction" (a term he prefers because "happiness" is used to casually) comes through just four institutions (see page 8 of pdf link below): family community (can be scattered geographically) vocation (or avocation or causes) faith Isn't it interesting that the way ministry tries to be all four of these things for people? family: they say the spiritual family is greater than the "earthly" family and even advocate severing ties with "earthly" family community: "household of God" anyone? vocation: they say that your real, true job is being a disciple faith: no explanation needed No wonder it's so hard to get out. Here's a link to some info on Charles Murray and his speech. Charles Murray "Happiness of the People" speech, in PDF file format

Nope, never. But then I'm kinda illiterate...I only understand one language: English. English that humans speak, not the Angelic dialect.

Way Corps "volunteers"?? Riiight. Okay, so if they want to require the HQ and Gunnison staff to see or hear the STS as a condition of their employment, then I guess that's one thing. But then they required the Way Corps "volunteers"--those on the field--to listen to the phone hookup when it was offered in their city. That's another thing. But then, to make it even more personal, more controlling, and more nunyadambiz, a *reason,* that's right, a reason, was required to be sent to HQ if the Corps missed a phone hookup (you know, they couldn't get the tape, like the staff can). So I'm working in a department that's helping to prepare this letter to the limb coordinators along with this form they would have to send in to HQ for Queen Dictator / Attendance Checker, and my blood begins to boil. "That's nunyadambiz," I think to myself. So I bring it up to my department coordinator, and I'm not satisfied with the answer, which was "It's okay, let it go." (Well, maybe by this time I was beginning to step on some toes, but that's just the way it goes if people aren't treated fairly, am I right??) Nope, not gonna let this one go. So I escalate to the cabinet person. Of course at the time I didn't know that she was Rozilla's lesbo luvvah. I aired my grievance and told her I thought the ministry was crossing the line. She was adamant that the Great Attendance Checker was speaking by the spirit of God and had a good, deep spiritual reason for requiring that. And "nope, the legal department does not need to be questioned about it." Cultism at its finest: do NOT disagree with leadership.

omg...truly lmao... 14. Learn how to smile really big when someone reams you a new @$$h*le. Then say Thank You!

One of my writing assignments at HQ was to write benefits for a new witnessing card to be used sort of like the old green card was--you know, the one that listed the class benefits (makes life meaningful, promotes harmony in the home, etc.). So I drew up a list of 20 or 30 positive things that the ministry claims to provide for people through its teachings. After revising and whittling it down, I ended up with a list of 8 or so short simple benefits. The funny thing was that all of us who reviewed this list said that we wanted this kind of life--and we were all Way Corps on staff who were supposed to have these things (such as "redirects to a positive lifestyle"). After this was submitted to the Queen, she shot it down and said that we can't make such claims. Afraid of another lawsuit maybe...?

We sometimes get email from innies, usually something like this: So, how are you doing? As if to say, I'm sure your life is a total wreck by now. Have you humbled yourself to the point that you're ready to come back now? When I was in, I used to think "if only people knew how much better it is now." Now that I'm out, I KNOW why people don't come back. A bad day out of the way is better than the best day in. Best day in = believing lies and trusting in false friendships. Worst day out = living unpretentiously, facing reality, and having few friends but true friends.

Oh yeah, lcm was so much into "the household" that everything he did was about people getting into TWI and staying in TWI. You had to stand, and you had to stand with him. Everything was so slanted toward "the household," and "the household" was always the Way, the whole Way, and nothing but the Way. Aside from that, aren't prayers in TWI just another form of "our father who art in heaven"? At the time Jesus taught it, it was a personal, humble prayer between a single individual and his heavenly father. Then of course every church prays it so it becomes meaningless ritual. Kinda like "thank you father for the household of God. Thank you father for the board of directors. Thank you father for TWI. Thank you father for bringing me laryngitis just so I don't have to pray this stupid meaningless heartless prayer in front of everyone to look good in the eyes of 'the household' anymore." Rosie made a prayer room in the OSC a few years ago, and we printed some new "lift lists" for this room. Of course, we had to go back to the lift lists of the 70s because she's all about resurrecting VeePee's teachings and creating everything anew in his image, possibly in the hopes that we can just forget about the great torturer of the 1990s, or possibly in the hopes that the reincarnated VP will actually be idolized even more so than the on that lived in the 70s (because he's not around to drink and screw anymore?). So those lift lists started with God, then second was You, then a few lines like Your Job, Your Family, etc., then we got on to the more important matters that filled the entire page: Board of Directors, then each name of the directors and the whole "trustee household", then ministry stuff like HQ, Gunnison, Way Corps, Way classes, AC specials, yada yada yada. Way everything. Maybe if our minds and hearts were more on "the things of others" like the Bible says, then God could have added more "others" to the household. Or, maybe He does and the household isn't TWI???

Oh yeah, that's one of the best ever! I guess it's different for the MOG who spoke this phrase because he was forced out of the ministry so he's not a greasespot now? How about cancer being caused by devil spirits? Or if you get out of fellowship for just a moment the devil can whack ya in a split second?

lol...gotta go. The devil's here. Bad thunderstorm outside. Must be b/c I'm posting on GSC. Time to shut down the computer.

Funny comments! But seriously, it's good to know the adversary is going to be in Ohio next week during the discerning of spirits teachings and that we can expect some thunderstorms. I'll make sure I teach my son, it's not just lightning and thunder--it's the DEVIL! When I was in residence in Colorado there was a serious drought going on, and Ed H*rney talked to all of us about believing for rain. Several days go by, and still no rain. The next time he talked to us he didn't just talk--he yelled, picking up his chair and banging it on the floor and everything. IT'S NOT RAINING BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT BELIEVING. Even then, when I was wrapped up in most of the lies, I still knew I didn't control the friggin weather. So, let me get this straight: when it rains in Colorado, it's God. But when it rains in Ohio, it's the devil? OMG I'm so confused.

I worked at HQ for 9 years, 7 of them in a department that had a project of revising the old SNS notes from the 1960s and early 1970s. (Of course, there were huge gaps in the tape numbers because they only kept the ones that were taught by people who were still "standing" with the ministry. And by the 2000s, about the only ones left from the 1960s and 1970s were Wierwille (father and son), M@l Ge*rge, and B*b M*ynih@n.) One of the duties in revising these notes was to remove any material that could be considered offensive to a group or person by making claims (usually by attaching some form of "spiritual") that were in reality unsubstantiated. I remember one teaching when Vic was naming off all these corporations that were getting really big and strong in the US, and he was saying that these were all run by seed of the serpent men and women. One corporation that he named was IBM. Um, yeah, they provide technology products and services. Seed of the serpent, huh? Is that because to be truly great one has to be either seed or in the Way ministry? And the IBM big cheese apparently wasn't listening to VPW's great new light to his generation. Of course, I'm sure if the big cheese ever heard that teaching, those kind words would have won him over in a heartbeat. Of course, had to edit that out of the teaching notes. Wouldn't want anyone to read that in print, ya know. Any other big fat but unsubstantiated "spiritual" claims?

lmao...ru effin' kidding me? Please tell me they never did that!