Raf

Save it for the politics thread, commie pinkos! :D-->

Okay, I'll say it... Am I the only one who thought this thread was about something else entirely?

Umm, thanks Steve. I may never be able to look at the Web site the same way again.

Dang. It went down AGAIN!

No Jerry, It doesn't make me "wonder" at all.

Oldiesman, With all due respect, HORSEHOCKEY. Look carefully at what's written there: "From his vantage point in heaven, Kenyon is probably delighted." PROBABLY delighted? Actually, in my belief, Kenyon would probably be infuriated. Which one of us is right? We cannot know because such a statement is BASELESS SPECULATION. To take the next step and say "If Kenyon himself wouldn't have been bothered, why should anyone else" is a logical fallacy. IF my BASELESS SPECULATION is true, why should you have a problem with the flagrant theft Kenyon's works? It's barely worthy of a response. From this site. Now get this: tell me if it doesn't sound familiar. The emphasis in that last paragraph was mine because he said "we may use different words to express it" when, in fact, he's not using different words at all. [This message was edited by Rafael 1969 on November 11, 2003 at 18:19.]

Dot, The Word-Faith movement is that family of believers who teach things like "the law of believing," "name it and claim it," etc. Stuff that reminds you of Wierwille when you hear it from the likes of Ken Hagin, Ken Copeland and KC Price... It reminds you of Wierwille because they all rely on the same source: EW Kenyon. Without a doubt, Wierwille plagiarized Kenyon. But Wierwille was a veritable gentleman and scholar compared to the level of plagiarism of Kenyon by Kenneth Hagin. Wierwille wasn't alone.

JSN, The Living Epistles Society site is the one I'm complaining about. I've had problems with the other stie, too, but not nearly as severe. Garth, Thanks. I thought it was just me. :(-->

Check it out: I'm not quoting Wierwille again. Specifically, I'm not quoting Living Victoriously, pages 150-151 If you think VPW plagiarized Leonard, you should see what he did to Kenyon.

E.W. Kenyon, the true father of the Word-Faith movement.

Leonard was there? Interesting. Hey everyone, get this: Remember, I'm not quoting VPW at all, not a single word. I want you to remember that while reading pgs. 35-41 of the Green Book. Mind you, I did not quote the Green Book a single time.

Garth, Any idea why my web site keeps freezing? You use the same host, right? Do you experience the same problems? (if you see an image below, my site is up. If you see an x, it's not). Raf

Dot, That was my last post to Oldiesman before he went on some kind of cafe hiatus. If you'll recall, I made reference to that earlier on this thread when I told him that similarities prove plagiarism regardless of dissimilarities that may also exist. This time he responded that I'd made a good point and he's considering it. I don't think, if he's being honest, that he'll come to a conclusion different from mine. But I have to sit back and let him reach that conclusion on his own.

Deleting my post here to stay on topic.

Oldies, Dot, Thank you both for enduring my nanny-complex. I apologize for the derail, Dot. I'm trying to find the Kenyon chapter from which Wierwille lifted "How to Be a Christian" from the green book. Some obvious ripoffs there.

Oldiesman, Do you see where Dot may have a point? I've seen some evolution in your thought on a lot of matters. I've seen an open mind and heart. You don't have to agree with her conclusions necessarily, but is she really all wrong, particularly about you? I'm not saying yes or no either way, but what do you think? If she's misinterpreting you, now's the chance to set the record straight. But if she's right... I leave the conclusion of that sentence to you. Dot, I didn't jump on Oldiesman because I knew others would. I apologize if it looked like I'm picking on you. Far be it from me to tell people to stop squabbling :)--> ! The fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, PATIENCE, gentleness, goodness, meekness, self control, I left one out because I'm trying to remember off the top of my head. So Oldiesman, next time you feel the need to mention someone's halitosis, just ask yourself which fruit of the spirit you're trying to exhibit. (I wish I took my own advice more often, but hey, I never claimed to be perfect. Or to see an invisible snowstorm.)

Dot, I know you're a good heart. And I know Oldiesman is too. So I did direct my "honey v. acid" comment at both of you. I wasn't trying to point fingers. Thanks for taking my comment as constructive, as it was intended to be. I refuse to believe you two can't resolve this, once you're both out of venom. :)-->

Wow. Say what you want, Dot, but I think Oldies has one heckuva open heart. He's far from blind. Try a little more honey and a little less acid (that goes for you too, Oldiesman). Please?

Pat, I wouldn't say "not to trust." I would say, "not to trust blindly," or "not to put faith in titles." But I think you got the gist.

The gift of the word of knowledge is the God-given ability to take unto yourself, at your own volition, a word of knowledge (that is, a revelation of facts concerning things about which it would be humanly impossible for you to know anything at all). B.G. Leonard.

The oddlist, Pat. Sorry for the derail, but I thought it would be cute. One good thing I got out of my (very limited) time in TWI was a skepticism for authority. Interestingly enough, because of the specific timing of my involvement (fall 1998 - summer 1989), I was able to learn firsthand not to trust anyone just because of their title. Came in handy a few years later when it seemes a bunch of people were ready to follow Chris Geer like the Pied Piper of Godknowsnuttin.

Pat, I think I've become more acutely aware of birthdays, when they are to be celebrated, and when happy ones are to be wished for on behalf of those going through one. Take you, for instance. Happy birthday. Raf

Danny, Positive Prayer, pp 25-26. I'm still trying to figure out some innocuous meaning behind what he said, but I just don't see how anyone can refer to Hitler as God's avenger gone too far. To be clear, Leonard never said Hitler should have stopped at 3 million. That was my snippy interpretation of what he DID say, which was, "the avenger went beyond his allotted task, defying the Almighty in doing so...cut off for doing so."

Seems to be working. Feel free to register and jump in anytime. Keep it clean.

Don't mind me, I'm just experimenting. Chat room