waterbuffalo

(((Outandabout))))) gosh, I am so sorry that happened to you and so glad God brought you through it. You just described why I am so against these offshoot mogs pretending to be counselors or therapists. They are misrepresenting themselves at best and have no business counseling anyone to do anything because they have NO credentials. And the worst part is after they give the person a verse to remember, the person goes away and continues to do the same thing and live the same way as they did before and never get any help! Yes, scripture is powerful, but God gave us medical and mental health professionals for a reason.

Thanks, Cowgirl, for the new desktop background :)-->.

Yes, that is the way people in that condition were dealt with at Emporia when I was there, too. One of the girls in Spring of '81 started saying crazy things and no one could communicate with her so JAL had us pack her things and put her on a bus. I helped her pack so she wouldn't get to NY without her toiletries and clothes. At the time it struck me as an odd way to handle this sort of things--just sorta washed their hands of her.

Angels do live among us. What's your beef? (Maybe you were never fortunate enough to have been taught that, but it is true.) :)--> :)--> :)--> :)--> :)--> WB

hehehe

Rascal, and I would imagine no FEAR associated with trying to keep others in line and trying to control what they think or say to the group--with that missing, it has been my experience that Christians do tend to treat each other with respect.

ACTUALLY, I prefer using the word NAIEVE :-) :D-->

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllllllllllllllllll. I refuse to answer that on the grounds it might incriminate moi.

Well then, you have your permission to state whatever you please.

Why should I do that? I got some half truths out of it and now I've moved on. As I've stated before, 20 yrs. ago I ate a hamburger at a hamburger stand. I was starving and it tasted good and sustained me. Yes, I was better off having the hamburger than having nothing. It gave me sustanance for that time in my life. Now, I eat a healthier diet with more vitamins and live foods and vegetables. Why would I go back to a diet of fast foods and think that that would sustain me now? I'm older, I've grown, and my body has need of more quality foods. When younger, my body would use just about anything it could get for fuel, including spiritually PFAL. But, "fast-food spirituality" doesn't sustain me now. I need a healthier and more nutrituious diet--one that contains humility, goodness, hope, patience, true love (not just to get something from someone such as if they take "the class"), etc. So, no, there is no need to revisit a fast food diet to know that it is harmful to me and very lacking in the sustanance needed for me to be spiritually healthy today.

Exactly, Steve!

OM, why do you care what JAL does? Thought you implied you weren't in his group?????? Just curious :)-->

I'm sorry. Did I say I had non-trinitarian beliefs?

def59, Are you sure Church of Christ doesn't believe in the Trinity? When we visited one several times, they definitely talked about it a lot and believed that way. Also, we liked the church and felt moved everytime we went. What we didn't like was it was led by a mog with lots of vp similar characteristics--very controlling.

The Great Commission via twi and offshoots (some, anyway): And Jesus said, "Go into all the world, teaching and convincing others what you think is my true identity, forsaking all others who believe a different way, puffing yourselves up by sheer intellect and incomplete studies, accepting whatever the mogs say, and convincing others to do likewise." Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot what Jesus said.

Gosh, Exousia, what a beautiful post! My thoughts exactly. Thanks for putting them into words. WB

WTH said: No, WTH, the STANDARD of a Christian leader in the Body of Christ is set forth in Timothy, not invented by the posters on this board. The husband of one wife implies without stating that he would bed only his own wife, not various and sundry members of his flock. It is also stated very plainly in Ezekiel that there are wicked shepherds who devour the flock and God does not look kindly on them or approve of them.

Oakspear said: Agreed, Oakspear. This is what I have done and wholeheartedly recommend it to others. It's amazing how good life gets after starting over and letting the Holy Spirit teach you what He wants to teach you independent of your preconceived ideas or previous teachings from anywhere. I can learn from a TV evangelist, a musician, any Christian teacher or preacher, and yes, even an atheist who describes group consciousness which perfectly parallels wayworld. My God doesn't fit into a wierwillized box. He is everywhere and He is so big He can even work in someone who doesn't think they believed in Him to teach us what twi really was 60 years later. There is no formula for knowing or finding God or His son Jesus Christ and He does not limit Himself to speaking through only one vessel. As a matter of fact, He tells us in Acts that the young men and the handmaidens (young women) will prophesy and will dream dreams and He says it is a good thing--something to be joyful about. He says in one translation that He will pour out His spirit upon all humanity (KJV says "all flesh"). That's a far cry from speaking through only one man who will then tell the masses what to do. Thanks for the topic, Oakspear. You are a very wise man and I appreciate your posts. WB

Mike said: Mike, you just made our point about JAL--he's just serving up warmed up PFAL. Since you consider JAL to have a sharper mind than yourself, are you also part of CES?

Mike said: Mike, have you ever considered that the Holy Spirit is trying to tell you that PFAL is not what He wants you to revere and base your life on? And I don't ask this lightly--if it's with "the greatest persuasion" for you to support it, then maybe you are blocking or drowning out the comforter and counselor who talks to all of us and was sent by Jesus to help us understand spiritual things, the Holy Spirit. Please remember that the things of God are "easy to be entreated" and you wouldn't be the first person to block His voice. Yes, I believe God sent me to twi too, but He also told me when to leave. So maybe He's speaking to you too and letting you know that there are many wonderful Christian teachers out there today to build up the Body of Christ. Heck, if you don't want to listen to any of them, why not try just reading the Bible for yourself and ask the H.S. to TEACH YOU HIMSELF. Believe me, He will and you'll never go back to going by what just one man said ever again.

So it's all right for us to USE them and their knowledge for the parts they got right? Am I hearing you both correctly?

...then why were all of the Christian books that were read and quoted by the teachers at Emporia and used to back up Way doctrine written by TRINITARIANS (other than vps stuff, of course)? Just wondered if anyone else had ever wondered the same thing.

I am totally not here to criticize JAL, but can't for the life of me see what he is doing or saying that is different from what he was doing/saying in twi or how he has changed. Having said that, I believe there was good in him then and there is good in him now. He just isn't serving up anything I want or need to eat--sort of more like been to that cafe when I was starving (in twi), liked it then, but now my tastebuds have changed and I have more discriminating tastes.

Such excellent speakers we have on this board, including yourself, MJ.

I know, Shaz!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like you were just waiting around for him to come fix ya.