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templelady

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Everything posted by templelady

  1. I would be the last person to ever defend the kind of lifestyle imposed on these women,. I and ever other LDS not to mention free thinking people at large recognize that when it comes to control of their woman folks the FLDS could give the Taliban lessons. The more women who escape from this life the happier I am. That said... This is country that was founded on the principles that the end DOES NOT justify the means. No taxation without representation, no court of the Star Chamber. The Salem witchcraft trials stand out in the history of this country far more than the witchcraft trials of Europe do in European history because of the very core of their justification. Namely, that a person of another religious persuasion or one accused of a different lifestyle ( believe me when I tell you "witchcraft" covered a whole host of offense that we of the modern understanding of the occult would scratch our heads at) was somehow exempt from the normal rights according to the "law abiding" citizen. Ever wondered about that phrase "law Abiding" citizen? After all if you are Law Abiding what difference does the rights under law mean to you --being law abiding means you will never have to put them to the test. It is the non Law abiding they are meant to protect, translate--non law abiding as difference or eccentric in many cases. If you are a women with minor children living in one of these enclaves , are you mislead? From my point of view, yes. Are you in danger? From my point of view, probably to some degree. Are your female children in danger? Possibly. But the fact remains that as long as your children are well fed , cared for, loved and not subject to sexual or other abuse -- you have a right to teach them that God is a blob of green cheese who wants you to wearpurple hair ribbons and make Linzer Torte every Sunday for dessert. It's called freedom of religion. Once we declare that all children are abuse victims simply because of the religion they are raised in, we are on a slippery slope we may not be able to return from. ======================================================= Margaret More: Father, that man's bad. Sir Thomas More: There's no law against that. William Roper: There is: God's law. Sir Thomas More: Then God can arrest him. William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law! Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil? William Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that! Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake! From " A Man for all Seasons"
  2. ***carefully the LDS female on this forum raises her head above the parapet to weigh in**** First polygamy is illegal in this country adult participants in this should be punished according to the law. second child sexual abuse is illegal in this country adults who perpetrate or assist in the perpetration of same should be punished according to the law. Where I have a problem with this whole situation.................. There are 416 children involved--with I don't know how many mothers. According to the laws of this great country we are accountable for our own actions. Belonging to a polygamous sect DOES NOT automatically mean the you are a) a child sexual predator pr b) are facilitating child predation, no more than belonging to TWI automatically meant you were a sexual predator. Each woman and her children should be judged on their own merits. If there is abuse the children should be removed, if the is sexual predation the child should be removed, if their is neglect the child should be removed. HOWEVER, that is not what is happening. What is happening is that they are being judged as a group and that violates every principal of law that I know. No matter how reprehensible we may find the teaching of the FLDS; church and as a member of the LDS church I can assure you that the repression, unrighteous dominion, abuse along with much of the rest of the doggerel that is preached by FLDS leaders is not only horrifying to the LDS church but in direct opposition to what we as LDS believe; these are still United States citizens and entitled to the protection of law. They may not be held to a higher or different standard that any other family in America if we are to be true to ourselves and the principles on which this country is founded. And then there is the problem of the "informant" who very possibly never existed. Tonight's news indicates that officialdom is now trying to say a Colorado woman known for making such "phony" calls is being investigated. Texas Rangers are keeping mum. Last night I watched a snippet where officials in desperation were claiming they had the "informant" in isolation. Her attorney couldn't gain access . Turned out the girl was 18 and the officials were trying to get her birth certificate declared invalid so they could claim she was the 16 year old. Have we as a society become so willing to bow ourselves to government authority, that we are willing to declare that those different than us are not to be accorded the same rights and freedoms as we claim for our own? Because if this is what we believe, if we believe that a compound is Texas is somehow "fair game" to government assault, because of their beliefs, we might as well fold our doors and descend into the tyranny that plagues other nations. I would have had far more respect for the officials of Texas if they had obtained the necessary warrants, gone in with social workers and carefully , family by family ascertained if abuse was present, removing those children that were, arresting those who were guilty, rather that at gunpoint herding women and children like cattle from their homes. This is the United States, the wealthiest nation on earth--and Texas is one of the wealthiest states. That they approached this heartrending situation in such an ill thought out and callus way grieves me.
  3. Happiest of Birthdays my firend
  4. Look folks, let the old lady speak here. Way back in time, shortly after the dinosaurs exited the planet, my teachers told me we were still coming out of the last Ice age. The result of coming out of the last ice age means we have to get warmer. At one time there were buttercups in Barrow Alaska, and fern forests and tropical bogs in what is now most of the United States etc (that's where we get coal and oil ,folks, that decayed vegetable matter.) So we are a long way from being out of the Ice Age. And guess what? there's not a bloody thing we can do about it because planet earth is going to come out of that Ice Age and then start heading back to another ice age whether we like it or not-- So get used to it. IN the meanwhile I have this snippet of a cave drum broadcast from the time before the last Ice Age. drummer 1 " the Shamans all say that it is getting colder" Drummer 2 " this is serious we need to build more fires to induce global warming" Drummer 1 " if global warming doesn't take place we are looking at ice in the northern regions." Drummer 2 " ice means that ocean levels will sink and fresh water will turn into glaciers." Drummer 1 " dropping ocean levels will mean that more coast will be exposed--caves near fishing resources will be left miles from food stores leading to possible starvation" Drummer 2 " lower ocean levels will mean higher salinity in the water and all fish will die off" Drummer 1" larger exposed land masses will mean an increase in herd animals -- which mean more danger for hunters and families since predators will be more numerous due to larger heard. Drummer 2 " the only solution is for the Federation of Caves to mandate that more wood be burned--even in daylight hours -- we need to set up wood stations so that people will burn more fuel even if they can't collect it themselves............................. Unfortunately the wise words of the cave drummers were not heeded and the Ice Age came--thus leaving us in our present predicament
  5. I would be happy to come as my wolfish self--clad in suitable sheeps clothing of course
  6. templelady

    Cat whispering

    Cats, unlike dogs, are not pack animals. Except for lions felines of any species are fairly solitary creatures. They are also animals with strong individual personalities. Much stronger than say a dog--because dogs, as pack animals possess, the ability to adapt to their particular hierarchy in the group dynamic. Cats see no need for this. Most cats are "fraidly" cats. Wild cats are stealth predators. Stealth predators need to be on their toes constantly. They need to be quick enough to catch their prey and escape injury. Escaping injury is paramount. Therefore most cats of any species will jump at their own shadow, call it instinctive survival. My friend had a cat that was a rescue that wouldn't let them touch him for almost five years. He lived under the bedroom chair and would never come out if other people were over. I had a female cat that would let me pet her about once a month but no one else. Cate, my current girl is 16 she lets me pet her and maybe four other people. I am the only one who she won't scratch if I pick her up. The best advice I can give is that you have to let your cat bond with you. that means you are the ONLY person to feed her, the ONLY person to change the litter box, The ONLY Person to give her water. You get the idea Dogs regard us as part of a pack Cats regard us as their Mommies. Therefore you must perform the duties of Mommy for your cat to clearly understand that you are her defender and protector ie Mommy. Also she needs to understand that as mommy if it is necessary to pick her up you will. If she nips flick her nose with your fingernail. wear long sleeves so you won't get scratched. Picking up is a necessity for checking her out if you suspect she has been hurt or is ill. Otherwise let her come to you. But she needs to be clear that there is One Mommy and it isn't her. Some cats are terrible curiouss, some are nervous Nellie's and some cats are basically sleeping floor mats. You just have to go with the flow. get one of those interactive toys that are on a pole or get one of those laser light pointers. Most cats just can't resist either
  7. Happiest of Birthdays my friend
  8. How appropriate that so many of us here have, or are in the process of, driving the "snake" that was TWI out of our lives Happy St Paddy's day to all my friends at GSC
  9. templelady

    Hi

    My first born is getting married in Utah on Labor day weekend. His request is that I do a counted cross stitch/embroidery, piece that is a family tree of both he and his blushing brides families, complete with siblings etc. He wants it to be a surprise for his bride. This piece is so complex I finally broke down and bought an embroidery, cross stitch software program to design it. Plus church relief society projects, work, and life itself So glad to hear from all of you it is good to know I am not forgotten . Hopefully will see many of you in Texas in the fall.
  10. templelady

    Hi

    Just a note to say HI to everyone and assure you that I have not forgotten any of you. It's just that my life is currently going faster that a runaway locomotive with a full head of steam. I hope you are all doing well, I love you all and really I do plan on stopping in long enough for a good visit just as soon as I can
  11. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Cartwheels of Joy for you Have a wonderful B-Day
  12. I read the book "Grizzly Maze" about the Treadwell disaster. In that book they go into a discussion about the difference between brown ( grizzly ) and Black bears. First a sow with cubs no matter the species is a dangerous Mama not to be provoked or encroached on-- the farther away the better- camera clicks, flash bulbs, sudden movement anything that She perceives as a potential threat-- you have a good potential of being toast. outside of mama and baby the studies show that... Grizzlies attack because they feel crowded. They are big and fast -- if charged roll up into a ball cover your neck and head with your arms and no matter what no sound or movement when attacked. To ME that sounds like a really tall order and goes against the grain of every natural response. Grizzlies also have a tendency to back off and sit and watch to see if the object of their attentions is going to move-- they are incredibly patient and have been known to hang around as much as an hour after the initial attack-- any movement on the part of the person will often cause a renewed attack..again to remain motionless after such an attack would take superhuman will power -- more than I have-- that's for sure. It is known that bears of any species can count -- two people are less likely to be attacked as one-- three is even safer and there are no documented attacks on groups of 4 or more people together. Most attacks are the result of the Grizzly being surprised. Always make noise-- bells, or singing, loud talking etc--- especially around fishing areas, in the brush, berry patches etc. A forewarned bear is likely to exit quietly given the opportunity. Black bears, who attack humans, attack for a different reason- an unprovoked attack by a black bear ( who also can come in white, silvery gray {blue}, brown and tan and I have seen a black and white bear) means that he is hungry and you are on the menu-- Black bears retreat if the object of their intended meal fights back vigorously. There are documented cases of children as young as 10 successfully fighting off a bear by yelling, kicking, punching and hitting the bear with an object around the head. Again the size of the group acts as a deterrent. Polar bears-- those great white denizens of the north-- are a different kettle of fish all together. They, on occasion, stalk and hunt humans regarding them as just another entree. Barrow, Alaska and the rest of the northern coastline has many documented accounts of bears waiting under trucks for people getting off work at night-, stalking trick or treaters and, in one case, going through the window of a mess hall and seizing a GI at chow.
  13. THANK YOU ((((((((((((((((((((((EVERYONE))))))))))))))))
  14. When my daughter was about three we awoke one morning to find her 10 cent goldfish floating, as dead as only a goldfish can be, in its bowl. I suggested a funeral for the fish to which my daughter said, peering at the lifeless body in my hand, "No!" and took the fish and put it in her pocket. I pointed out that dead fish do not belong in peoples pockets -- to which she replied, " he's not dead he is just sleeping!". I explained to her about death and that her goldfish had gone to be with Jesus. She looked at me with a very determined frown and said "He is sleeping, Watch-- I'll ask God to wake him up". She reached in her pocket and pulled out her fish which started flopping in her hand. We put the fish back in the bowl where it lived for quite a while afterwards. The faith of a Child-- Faith the size of a mustard seed that can move mountains. I've seen that faith --saw it that day But is that the same as "the Law of Believing" as taught by TWI --Nope-- NO Way, No HOw. Just my opinion.
  15. Lutheran Social Services Catholic Social Services Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints Salvation Army Any church in Any Town, The World--whose membership has ever come together--whether cleaning houses, starting a food bank, handing out clothes to the needy etc. It's all part of the big picture. Many of those who serve will never be known outside of their community others won't even have that much recognition. But, there is One who marks every smile given to lighten a day, every hand across a muddy street, every sandwich and cup of soup on a cold winter''s day. That is our Heavenly Father. When we all get to stand before him on that judgement day there are, IMO, going to be a a lot of very surprised people both those who think they are dong so much, and those who feel they aren't doing enough. They all may very well find themselves proved wrong on that day.
  16. 1) When your Husband and your twig Coordinator are sexually abusing your kids, ( and Others 2) When you are told by leadership that as a submissive wife it is your duty to plead guilty to abuse charges so your husband will go free and you refuse 3) When you are diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and leaderships response is "this is God's punishment for not being a submissive wife" ( see #2) It's time to gather the tattered shreds of your life, abandon ship, and tread water until you find good planks to grab hold of to swim to safety I made it to safety thanks to a Loving Heavenly Father who never gave up on me AFTER I left TWI, wasn't ABSing, and didn't believe in Way doctrine anymore
  17. 1. What web site is this? Greasespot Cafe 2. What Area of the Web site is this test in? About the Way 3. Do you still believe The Way Ministry was not a cult? No 4.Do you still love to see Victor Paul Wierwille at the Rock? No 5. Do you still plan to go to the Rock of Ages? No 6. Are you planing to go WOW this year? No 7. Do you still give money to the Way ministry? No 8. Are running a class in your home right now? No 9. Do you feel sorry that the Way ministry lost a lot of people? No 10. Do you still believe the Way doctrines were of God? No not those that "rewrote" scripture or otherwise convoluted it to suit specific leadership agendas 11. Is it possible Victor Paul Wierwille lie to you? Yes 12. Do you still pray for Victor Paul Wierwille? Yes 13. Do you still send money to move the Word of the Way forward? No 14. Do you still go to Limb cookouts? No 15. Do you still with pride have a Way sticker on your car? No 16. Do you still sing at your home fellowship? No 17. Do you still hide from people who have been mark and avoided by the Way ministry? No -- haven't figured out how to hide from myself LOL 18. Do you still witness about the class? No 19. Were you smart to get out of the Way ministry? Yes 20. Did you stay to long in the Way ministry? Yes
  18. I believe it was Digitalis, who used to post here and at one time was an HFC coordinator, who told me a bout the pay stub check. I also remember the concept being discussed back in my day. It was all about the dollar folks. My church and others will ask if you tithe on occasion--but they usually take your word for it either way. IF a person still wonders if TWI was a cult the constant one way flow of money from bottom to top, with little trickling down the other way, certainly is one of the key pieces of evidence, to support that idea that it was.
  19. I think what we need to remember is VPW's tremendous ego. Everything was a result of him, in his world. While our 20/20 hindsight may want to believe that these were parables or for demonstration purposes at the time-- I will wager that most of us , including myself, believed what he said was first person knowledge. Just like snow covered gas pumps, hook shots etc. Face it, we were convinced this man was the greatest thing since the first century church -- we bought this story hook, line, and sinker as a real event that VPW knew about personally. That was the power base that he had, he knew so much and he was willing to impart it to us know-nothings.
  20. Welcome Happy As for help --only help I ever saw was "under the table" believer to believer. Never the twig, branch or Limb giving a hand up. Their idea of a hand up was "renew your mind" "you left your spiritual trapdoor open" kind of help. I'm LDS (Mormon) and this isn't a discussion about my particular belief system-- but I know for a fact that my church at the ward level ( think twig or HF) provides, food, clothing, rent money, school supplies, medication anything you can think of to those who have a need. It's between the person and the bishopric and no one is the wiser unless the recipient chooses to tell they received help. Never heard of anyone being turned away either.
  21. I remember that story both the first time I heard it and the many times it was referred to. There was never, ever, any indication that it was anything other than a first person account by VPW. It was told in such a way that everyone received the distinct impression that this was a real woman and child, known to VPW and that he was telling us about actual events--events that supported the doctrine of "believing equals receiving"
  22. True responsibility lies in the individuals right to choose what and how they will be responsible. True development lets the individual decide which talents if any he or she will develop. Telling people what they are responsible for, when they are responsible for it, and what talents they need to develop--takes away the God given freedom of choice from that individual And they were the final arbitrators of that Word-- if what you saw in perfectly good English printed on the page in front of you disagreed with what was being said by leadership on the podium you were expected to disregard the knowledge of your GOD GIVEN five senses, senses HE gave you to use, and go with what leadership said. THey taught us how to renew our minds and then spent the rest of the time telling us we needed to do so every time we dared to use those minds to think or do something that didn't meet with leadership approval. Hardly the freedom of choice, and responsibility of consequences that God envisioned when he passed those minds out Yeah they were-- but they determined how much abundance was enough-- "living above a needs basis" In other words if God gave you Abundance then you were supposed to hand it over to leadership so they could live More Abundantly-- Funny, I figure If God wanted that Abundance he gave me to belong to leadership He would have given it to them instead of me in the first place. I' m not talking about charity and giving to others , supporting the ministry endeavors-- I'm talking about the enforcement of rules and doctrines which were designed to strip the individual of his goods to the benefit of leadership-- Christ Had words for these people "oh ye generation of Vipers. WD I have never questioned that What TWI taught from the word was often right on spot--It's when they jumped into the arena of telling the individual exactly how, they, the individual , had to apply what TWI taught that they crossed the line stripping the rank and file from the right to use their GOD Given freedom of choice--for good or for bad.
  23. Today in Church the subject of being loved by Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, And our fellow man came up along with our loving in return. I got to thinking about the differences between now and the TWI years. Leadership said that we were sons and daughters of God But their actions spoke even louder, for most of us, that we were really the bottom of the barrel spritually...... They said that we had all power, But there actions said we only had as much power as leadership decided we could have..... They said that God loved us, But they kept hammering that we weren't worthy for God to spit in our direction and were "Babes in the word" so that they wouldn't have to explain why they were so far off the word..... They said we had freedom of choice But they only meant we had the freedom to follow the choices they made for us.... They knew what the words were-- but most of them never really grasped the spirit behind the words
  24. You might what to add-- I was abused sexually as a child by Way leadership and My children were abused sexually by Way leadership From here the tally For my children to guestion one would be 3 and for question two, from me 1
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