That reminded me...when Selina and I partook in our first pfal class, they had a girl up the front sitting down flipping over cards when a little bell sounded ! It sure was a 'giggle' watching her nod off to sleep whilst holding the cards !!
I can't believe you guys have all overlooked the prime, irrevocable, undeniable, ironclad "rule",
i.e. - GET THE MONEY OUT OF THE NEW STUDENTS!
Yes, $75, $85, $100, or $200., thou shalt not run a class without the proper amount of dinero paid in advance.
And why was that such an unwavering rule? Why, the students couldn't recieve the GREATNESS OF THE WORD if they didn't give first!
groan...
...Of course it was always about the money. Twi became a multi million dollar corporation by charging filthy lucre for "Gawd's werd"...(not to mention the dough that rolled in from seminars and "advances" and how could we ever forget the abs)...
What was the very first assignment given to the new students in session 1?...Read "Christians should be prosperous"...Plant the idea that they were about to be shook down every week for what they owed Gawd (twi) from their paycheck.
If you reduce the pfal class down to it's basic message...it was that Wierwille was the mog and we want your money...the rest of it was filler.
...By the way Galen, how much do YOU charge for teaching this diatribe?
Anybody remember, sometime around 81-82, when VP announced that the price of the class was being dropped to $45? At the time I was pleased, believing that is was an indicator that money was not the ultimate prize. Anybody know how long that lasted?
...By the way Galen, how much do YOU charge for teaching this diatribe?
The last time that we charged anythign was when we were still 'in'.
Grads brought food, students paid whatever the price was.
Since then, everyone is welcome to bring food. Sometimes we have a snack before, then serve a meal during a break, and dessert afterwards. other times we vary it around.
Even though you and I disagree ..., I do like your methods.
Thank you, sir.
When we were stationed in Scotland, it took us months to get HQ and Gartmore to agree together that we could run a PFAL class. I contacted Gartmore, then was referedto international, then to Paul Norcross, then back to Gartmore, etc. It was the only dealigns that I ever had with Mister Norcross, he seemed like he wanted to help, but did not know how to get a PFAL class to anyone overseas. They did not want us to just go to Gartmore to get it, [we might contaminate the WC at Gartmore] and they did not want us dealign with Gartmore WC. But since I was not WC myself, they could not tell me why, nor could they jsut send me the stuff. So finally Chris Kent came by to deliver the tapes. When he did, A small group of believers were at our house waiting to meet him. They explained to Mister Kent that our fellowship was largely servicemembers who were working rotating shift-work and accordingly we had no set days or times for fellowships. Since most of the twig boarded with us anyway, we took every opportunity we could to study the Bible together, whether there were three or ten of us home. So it really worked out that 'fellowships' were happening just about everyday of the week.
Mister Kent did not like this, and the way that we were not mimicking the ministry's cookie-cutter 'look'. No yelling if someone could not get to fellowship on time, no insistence that folks were not believing high enough, etc. No big room, with chairs strung in straight lines, etc.
So he said that he did not want to give us the tapes after all. So he went back out to his vehicle and a group of men accompanied him to his vehicle. It seems that they may have implied that if he welched on giving us the PFAL class, after all we had gone through to get it, that physical injury might happen to him. After-all he was preparing to back out on his obligation to other believers within the ministry. Interestingly enough, the other men came back in with the PFAL class in hand. and we later got a letter asking us to return the class via postal service when we were done with it.
Otherwise the folks at Gartmore were always very freindly when we went there Sundays. But it was too far away from us for any of them to come visit, they would have had to travel all of 40 miles.
I paid $100.00 and it was 1-1/2 years later the class was finally offered. I had to wait for 2 believers to turn 13.
Before I found out just how strong TWI was into believing = recieving, I kept asking when the class was going to be held? Finally, I gave up but my money wasn't returned. After several months a believer told me it wouldn't be long till the class started. My response, "I will believe it when I see it." The same remark was repeated and I again repeated what I had said. I look back and laugh about that at times.
I quit going to TWI for about 3 months and was determined to find out just what these classes were so I started back to fellowship. The class started and I was told that I had to pay another $100.00 in order to attend. There was a dis-agreement about paying again for the class that I never got to take and was assured that I would get the money back if HQ agreed. Two or three months later I ask the FC Sandy B--ler if a decision had been made about the extra payment. "Well yes, but Stephen and I decided that HQ could keep it as a plurality gift. We knew you wouldn't mind."
Yes, I was ticked off and confronted Stephen with it after I told Ms. Sandy how I felt. Stephen's reply to me was, If I needed the money that bad he would try and get it for me. Did I really need it that bad? No Stephen I didn't, but as I told you, "I will make the decision as to what I do with my money, Not TWI." I let them keep the money so I figured my abs was paid up for quite some time. I learned a real lesson from them where money was concerned.
I don't mean to make this such a long post, but I never could figure out why if something really bad happened that you had to drop out of the class, you had to pay again to take it. If you stopped going it was an "adversary attack" that you gave into that caused you to stop the class. Death, family emergency was no exception.
Galen...I have to admit that I admire your spunk and determined attitude in your Christian endeavors.
Wanting to fellowship with other believers and to be bible centered is a noble thing, IMHO...
...I just don't understand how you can hold on to the phoney twi doctrines that, IMHO, are so obviously wrong....C'mon now, you're obviously not a dumb guy...haven't you re-examined twi doctrine and discovered the NUMEROUS errors in pfal like the rest of us?
No hard feelings towards you...I just disagree with what grifter Vic taught.
What's the rules for running a PFAL Class? You can mention the obvious ones we were supposed to enforce - or the unspoken..
Back to T-bone's question here.
This happened in 2005 when hubby was coordinating an Intermediate Class. Of course it was not PFAL but was the WAP class.
All students were seated and it was 5 minutes before class time was to start. Hubby talks with the teacher and says he is going to go ahead and open the class...ya' know, start early so we can get on with it. Everybody's there and seated and ready.
The teacher says (not an exact quote), "No, we can't do that. The new standard from the BOD is that we have to wait until class start time."
Hubby was sort of stunned....can't start early? :blink: Of course they waited the 5 minutes.
I guess all class instructors needs to have satellite watches.
There was an Instructor's Guide...It instructed you how to instruct the class,whatever that meant....Some of the things I remember from it:
After sessions,4,8 and 12 take,---oops,I mean 'receive' an abundant sharing....
After session 4 pass around the photo in the Companion Bible of the painting of the five crosses(others crucified with Jesus)....If you didn't have a companion Bible,I guess you had to buy one...
You mean this picture?
Surely it wasn't this picture:
or this picture:
or this picture:
'cause the principle 'objective' support for the "four crucified" theory would have been blown out of the water.
We had a fun discussion on this down in Doctrinal last January. You can get to the Misquoting Jesus thread by clicking here. Makes for a fun review even though it's down in the doctrine dungeon.
We were once part of a class that was run on a houseboat in Sausalito, CA.
Not only did we have the tides and seasickness to contend with, but it was a fly over zone
for helicopters from SFO to Marin. well, P*tte Ad*ms, now Ho88s, was the class instructor.
We had to call the heliport and find out their schedule. Then John M*Cl33lan had to raise
the volume any time the helios flew by. It was ahoot. Don't remember too much elseas far
as grads, price, etc, or even the year, but it sure was an unusual one![/size]
Well, Priscilla, I came up from San Jose for about 7-8 sessions of that class. It was run in the fall/early winter sometime of 1973. Richard Earhart(sp?) lived on the houseboat as well as some others I cannot remember right now. And it wasn't really Sausalito but Marin City, I believe, though close enough to Sausalito. Seems to me Mark Sanguinetti, who posts here, was a student in the class.... so we must have known each other, at least by sight...
OK, I confess. A friend of mine ran the class for mainly my family members. This was like, let me think, early 80's? maybe? My 80 yr. old grandma, as well, as my aunt, uncle, cousins, neighbors, the family pets participated. Mom and my then littles brothers were there as well. (they were heavy revvy grads.)
The class was run at my parent's house, and my dad sat in the back and smoked cigars through the whole thing. And when he got bored, he went in the kitchen and made himself a peanut butter and jelly sandwhich. And was not very quiet while he did it.
Grandma got up and said she couldn't stay awake, can we please get on with it? The family dog chewed a huge hole in the family room carpet. Uncle Dick said he's been raised Baptist and knew all this stuff already.
Somehow, by the grace of God, (they) managed to make it through the class. Lordy, it took like 2 months. At the end, when it was time for everyone to speak in tongues, Dad said that it was a personal thing, only to be shared with his wife, (my MOM) Grandma cried, said she had waited for this day her entire life, Aunt Vivi and Uncle Dick watched. And then did it later.
VP gave me sanction from the Way Corps to be home for session 12. Lordy.
Next door neighbor said she spoke other languages, and didn't think it was such a big deal. And she didn't want to join a cult that would take all her money.
It was interesting to say the least. And then I had to give a report to VP when I got back to Emporia. Criminy. Gosh, well, here's how it went, says I. We laffed. It was cool, though.
And I should add, as soon as I got back to Emporia, I was sent LEAD immediately. I asked JAL, so ......am I punished for my leaving Emporia sins? that you have to send me Lead like the day I get back?
His response: You better go now, cause I can't accomadate your social schedule.
That's funny myotherseestorEx... my Mom took one of our classes but wasn't too impressed (being a person who put more credence into how one acted than how one spoke), I don't recall if she ever SIT... she wasn't too concerned though, she knew (and knows) she's all right with the mothership...
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allan w.
That reminded me...when Selina and I partook in our first pfal class, they had a girl up the front sitting down flipping over cards when a little bell sounded ! It sure was a 'giggle' watching her nod off to sleep whilst holding the cards !!
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dmiller
That says a lot, when the *staff* falls asleep!
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George Aar
I can't believe you guys have all overlooked the prime, irrevocable, undeniable, ironclad "rule",
i.e. - GET THE MONEY OUT OF THE NEW STUDENTS!
Yes, $75, $85, $100, or $200., thou shalt not run a class without the proper amount of dinero paid in advance.
And why was that such an unwavering rule? Why, the students couldn't recieve the GREATNESS OF THE WORD if they didn't give first!
groan...
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MTgal
Grads had to attend all the sessions not just the first and last one.
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GrouchoMarxJr
...Of course it was always about the money. Twi became a multi million dollar corporation by charging filthy lucre for "Gawd's werd"...(not to mention the dough that rolled in from seminars and "advances" and how could we ever forget the abs)...
What was the very first assignment given to the new students in session 1?...Read "Christians should be prosperous"...Plant the idea that they were about to be shook down every week for what they owed Gawd (twi) from their paycheck.
If you reduce the pfal class down to it's basic message...it was that Wierwille was the mog and we want your money...the rest of it was filler.
...By the way Galen, how much do YOU charge for teaching this diatribe?
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topoftheworld
Anybody remember, sometime around 81-82, when VP announced that the price of the class was being dropped to $45? At the time I was pleased, believing that is was an indicator that money was not the ultimate prize. Anybody know how long that lasted?
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Galen
The last time that we charged anythign was when we were still 'in'.
Grads brought food, students paid whatever the price was.
Since then, everyone is welcome to bring food. Sometimes we have a snack before, then serve a meal during a break, and dessert afterwards. other times we vary it around.
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Oakspear
Galen:
Even though you and I disagree on the value of what is taught in PFAL and Wierwille's doctrine in general, I do like your methods.
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Galen
Thank you, sir.
When we were stationed in Scotland, it took us months to get HQ and Gartmore to agree together that we could run a PFAL class. I contacted Gartmore, then was referedto international, then to Paul Norcross, then back to Gartmore, etc. It was the only dealigns that I ever had with Mister Norcross, he seemed like he wanted to help, but did not know how to get a PFAL class to anyone overseas. They did not want us to just go to Gartmore to get it, [we might contaminate the WC at Gartmore] and they did not want us dealign with Gartmore WC. But since I was not WC myself, they could not tell me why, nor could they jsut send me the stuff. So finally Chris Kent came by to deliver the tapes. When he did, A small group of believers were at our house waiting to meet him. They explained to Mister Kent that our fellowship was largely servicemembers who were working rotating shift-work and accordingly we had no set days or times for fellowships. Since most of the twig boarded with us anyway, we took every opportunity we could to study the Bible together, whether there were three or ten of us home. So it really worked out that 'fellowships' were happening just about everyday of the week.
Mister Kent did not like this, and the way that we were not mimicking the ministry's cookie-cutter 'look'. No yelling if someone could not get to fellowship on time, no insistence that folks were not believing high enough, etc. No big room, with chairs strung in straight lines, etc.
So he said that he did not want to give us the tapes after all. So he went back out to his vehicle and a group of men accompanied him to his vehicle. It seems that they may have implied that if he welched on giving us the PFAL class, after all we had gone through to get it, that physical injury might happen to him. After-all he was preparing to back out on his obligation to other believers within the ministry. Interestingly enough, the other men came back in with the PFAL class in hand. and we later got a letter asking us to return the class via postal service when we were done with it.
Otherwise the folks at Gartmore were always very freindly when we went there Sundays. But it was too far away from us for any of them to come visit, they would have had to travel all of 40 miles.
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skipC
I paid $100.00 and it was 1-1/2 years later the class was finally offered. I had to wait for 2 believers to turn 13.
Before I found out just how strong TWI was into believing = recieving, I kept asking when the class was going to be held? Finally, I gave up but my money wasn't returned. After several months a believer told me it wouldn't be long till the class started. My response, "I will believe it when I see it." The same remark was repeated and I again repeated what I had said. I look back and laugh about that at times.
I quit going to TWI for about 3 months and was determined to find out just what these classes were so I started back to fellowship. The class started and I was told that I had to pay another $100.00 in order to attend. There was a dis-agreement about paying again for the class that I never got to take and was assured that I would get the money back if HQ agreed. Two or three months later I ask the FC Sandy B--ler if a decision had been made about the extra payment. "Well yes, but Stephen and I decided that HQ could keep it as a plurality gift. We knew you wouldn't mind."
Yes, I was ticked off and confronted Stephen with it after I told Ms. Sandy how I felt. Stephen's reply to me was, If I needed the money that bad he would try and get it for me. Did I really need it that bad? No Stephen I didn't, but as I told you, "I will make the decision as to what I do with my money, Not TWI." I let them keep the money so I figured my abs was paid up for quite some time. I learned a real lesson from them where money was concerned.
I don't mean to make this such a long post, but I never could figure out why if something really bad happened that you had to drop out of the class, you had to pay again to take it. If you stopped going it was an "adversary attack" that you gave into that caused you to stop the class. Death, family emergency was no exception.
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Priscilla
We were once part of a class that was run on a houseboat in Sausalito, CA.
Not only did we have the tides and seasickness to contend with, but it was a fly over zone
for helicopters from SFO to Marin. well, P*tte Ad*ms, now Ho88s, was the class instructor.
We had to call the heliport and find out their schedule. Then John M*Cl33lan had to raise
the volume any time the helios flew by. It was ahoot. Don't remember too much elseas far
as grads, price, etc, or even the year, but it sure was an unusual one![/size]
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GrouchoMarxJr
Galen...I have to admit that I admire your spunk and determined attitude in your Christian endeavors.
Wanting to fellowship with other believers and to be bible centered is a noble thing, IMHO...
...I just don't understand how you can hold on to the phoney twi doctrines that, IMHO, are so obviously wrong....C'mon now, you're obviously not a dumb guy...haven't you re-examined twi doctrine and discovered the NUMEROUS errors in pfal like the rest of us?
No hard feelings towards you...I just disagree with what grifter Vic taught.
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allan w.
Well, theres plenty of us 'dumb jocks' around Groucho ! I guess we're just waiting to 'see the real light' like you did !!
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I Love Bagpipes
Back to T-bone's question here.
This happened in 2005 when hubby was coordinating an Intermediate Class. Of course it was not PFAL but was the WAP class.
All students were seated and it was 5 minutes before class time was to start. Hubby talks with the teacher and says he is going to go ahead and open the class...ya' know, start early so we can get on with it. Everybody's there and seated and ready.
The teacher says (not an exact quote), "No, we can't do that.
The new standard from the BOD is that we have to wait until class start time."
Hubby was sort of stunned....can't start early? :blink: Of course they waited the 5 minutes.
I guess all class instructors needs to have satellite watches.
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WordWolf
They could "strain a gnat and swallow a camel" better than just about ANYBODY...
Maybe THAT's the one thing that was hidden for 20 centuries before vpw revived it.
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markomalley
You mean this picture?
Surely it wasn't this picture:
or this picture:
or this picture:
'cause the principle 'objective' support for the "four crucified" theory would have been blown out of the water.
We had a fun discussion on this down in Doctrinal last January. You can get to the Misquoting Jesus thread by clicking here. Makes for a fun review even though it's down in the doctrine dungeon.
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alfakat
Well, Priscilla, I came up from San Jose for about 7-8 sessions of that class. It was run in the fall/early winter sometime of 1973. Richard Earhart(sp?) lived on the houseboat as well as some others I cannot remember right now. And it wasn't really Sausalito but Marin City, I believe, though close enough to Sausalito. Seems to me Mark Sanguinetti, who posts here, was a student in the class.... so we must have known each other, at least by sight...
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ex10
OK, I confess. A friend of mine ran the class for mainly my family members. This was like, let me think, early 80's? maybe? My 80 yr. old grandma, as well, as my aunt, uncle, cousins, neighbors, the family pets participated. Mom and my then littles brothers were there as well. (they were heavy revvy grads.)
The class was run at my parent's house, and my dad sat in the back and smoked cigars through the whole thing. And when he got bored, he went in the kitchen and made himself a peanut butter and jelly sandwhich. And was not very quiet while he did it.
Grandma got up and said she couldn't stay awake, can we please get on with it? The family dog chewed a huge hole in the family room carpet. Uncle Dick said he's been raised Baptist and knew all this stuff already.
Somehow, by the grace of God, (they) managed to make it through the class. Lordy, it took like 2 months. At the end, when it was time for everyone to speak in tongues, Dad said that it was a personal thing, only to be shared with his wife, (my MOM) Grandma cried, said she had waited for this day her entire life, Aunt Vivi and Uncle Dick watched. And then did it later.
VP gave me sanction from the Way Corps to be home for session 12. Lordy.
Next door neighbor said she spoke other languages, and didn't think it was such a big deal. And she didn't want to join a cult that would take all her money.
It was interesting to say the least. And then I had to give a report to VP when I got back to Emporia. Criminy. Gosh, well, here's how it went, says I. We laffed. It was cool, though.
Oi vey.
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ex10
And I should add, as soon as I got back to Emporia, I was sent LEAD immediately. I asked JAL, so ......am I punished for my leaving Emporia sins? that you have to send me Lead like the day I get back?
His response: You better go now, cause I can't accomadate your social schedule.
Snort.
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Tom Strange
That's funny myotherseestorEx... my Mom took one of our classes but wasn't too impressed (being a person who put more credence into how one acted than how one spoke), I don't recall if she ever SIT... she wasn't too concerned though, she knew (and knows) she's all right with the mothership...
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