3) When you went door to door did you have to count your hours and turn them in?
4) When you went door to door what was the purpose?
5) Was there a requirement of hours you had to put in the door to door ministry?
6)
On this site can you point me in the direction of a thread were it explains TWI doctrin.I've read a lot of the threads but I'm still confused as to the peticulars of the doctrins.I would like to learn as much as possiable so I don't sound stupid to all of you for not knowing. :)
I have more but I don't want to over load anyone.So I'll save them for later.
I don't know how questions about twi don't end up in "about twi", but I'll give this a shot.
1) If you mean "infant water baptisms", no. twi taught/teaches that water is unnecessary,
but a baptism in holy spirit IS necessary, and that requires no ritual.
Occasionally, a parent may do some sort of "dedication" ceremony-declaring they will raise their child
up according to the Lord/twi doctrine, but I haven't heard of that becoming common, standardized,
or a requirement. (Then again, if it HAS, it would not surprise me.)
2)
twi has always been fond of inflating their numbers. They've claimed over 100,000 people have been
members, when perhaps, at most, 100,000 ever took their foundational classes-both verions.
What that means is there were maybe 100,000 people who signed up for pfal and wap.
Please note that many or most who took wap had taken pfal, but wap was mandatory sooner or later.
Not everyone who signed up made it to Session 12, not everyone who made it to Session 1 completed
Session 12. (That's using pfal Sessions, I don't know what the final session# was for wap.)
And not everyone who completed pfal was there past 3 months or past 1 year. Using my own pfal class
as a guesstimate, 250,000 of the people claimed were every actually attendees, and that was across the
entire history of twi, not as attendees the entire time. (Many people who joined in the early 70s were gone
by the mid-70s, and so on.) So, for "membership" at any one time, I'd say between 1/5 and 1/10
of that would be more accurate, meaning between 50,000 and 25,000 at their biggest.
The best guesstimater I've ever heard was that 1/2 the current twi members attended ROA.
(Although occasionally new people attended.) So, take the number of attendees in any year,
double it, and you have the "membership" for that year. Attendance#s at ROA were consistent with
attendance#s overall, proportionally, and I got the statistics to back it up. :)
Someone once said that 24000 attended ROA '84, if only for a day or so, and that they
figured worldwide attendance to be somewhere approaching 40,000 that year-their apex of membership.
If we are being generous, I'll say 40,000 at the most, with 30,000 as the biggest possible
US attendance, with the remainder across all other countries.
That changed in the years between 1985-1990.
vpw died in 1985, and he'd appointed lcm as his successor a few years before. lcm was unable to pull off
the mysterious "I have a connection with God that you don't" thing vpw did. Around 1985, some leaders
protested "difficulties" at the leadership level, and cg wrote up "passing of the patriarch."
The next few years are what lcm himself called "the fog years", and ended in 1989, when lcm
"drew a line in the sand" and demanded all twi people declare an oath of loyalty to him, and anyone who
didn't wasn't welcome in twi anymore. That heavy-handed maneuver used to work when vpw used
it on SMALL numbers of people in his "way corps" program, but when lcm tried it on a large scale
at that place and time, it blew up in his face.
A FEW people had split 1985-1987, but 80% of the group left 1989-1990.
(ROA 1990 had fewer than 20% of the attendees ROA 1988 had.)
Since then, the group has been hemmorhaging members. They have nothing with which to
draw new people, and other Christians have more to offer their CURRENT members than they
themselves do. The organization currently has 4 types of members:
A) those in power who must keep the group together or face unemployment
B) those inside so long they're terrified of the outside world and other Christians
C) those kids who've been educated to be terrified of the outside world
D) members who are looking for a good chance to leave.
A number of years back, twi quoted ALL membership as 5000 worldwide.
That included small children.
The group is still in "negative population growth", but they went back to hiding their
numbers. Based off a more recent meeting, and skipping those not old enough to
take their classes, membership is somewhere closer to 1500 adults,
possibly 2000 total members overall, but more likely less at present,
and never likely to INCREASE. Numbers of losses can slow, but they won't REVERSE.
So,
membership peaked in 1984 at approximately 40,000 worldwide.
Membership as of 2006 is probably about 1,500 worldwide.
With numbers being hidden by twi whenever possible.
3)
Door-to-door....
There apparently was a short, aborted program to "sell" pfal door-to-door in the 1970s.
Most people don't remember that, since even those "in" at the time often heard nothing
about it.
In the 1990s, after more than 80% of the members had left, lcm tried lots of things to
increase the amount of money coming in, and to increase numbers.
(He'd chased off most of the people-and most of their tithing, more importantly.)
One of them was requiring door-to-door in some areas.
Further, at some points, all the corps grads in state were called in for a statewide
("limbwide") meeting. When they arrived, they were paired off and told to go
door-to-door.
At some points, wows (one-year committments to go "sell pfal") would go door-to-door.
That was more often than other people doing it.
So, there's different types of people to answer this,
thus, different answers.
I AM aware that the 1990s under lcm was a period of INCREDIBLE legalism and
anal-retentive record-taking and rules-following were richly rewarded and wildly encouraged.
During that time-period, I would be VERY shocked if each person wasn't required to
keep records. I do know someone said they were told to keep track of what blocks
they'd covered before, so they'd skip them next time.
3) When you went door to door did you have to count your hours and turn them in?
4) When you went door to door what was the purpose?
5) Was there a requirement of hours you had to put in the door to door ministry?
6) On this site can you point me in the direction of a thread were it explains TWI doctrin.I've read a lot of the threads but I'm still confused as to the peticulars of the doctrins.I would like to learn as much as possiable so I don't sound stupid to all of you for not knowing. :)
I have more but I don't want to over load anyone.So I'll save them for later.
Ok, I covered 1-3 so far....
4)
The purpose of going door-to-door was to SELL PFAL/WAP CLASSES.
There were pep talks that said things about blessing the people and stuff,
but the intent was to SELL foundational classes,
pfal in the 70s/80s,
wap in the 90s/00s.
Why?
Well, it was faster to sell a class, and the goals were more concrete.
Supposedly, someone might want to stay in the group once they finished it.
(Of course, it failed miserably with wap, since wap only worked with
people who had a background in twi for a year or more, and didn't
question lcm's poor explanations.)
The MAIN reason it was to SELL CLASSES, though,
was because selling classes meant selling seat in the class, which meant
that twi made more money. (ALL TWI CLASSES WERE ORGANIZED AS
PROFIT-MAKING VENTURES. TWI CLASSES WERE NEVER DESIGNED TO
'BREAK-EVEN' OR EVEN CONSIDER THAT AN OPTION.)
So, if the person just paid for the class, then twi made a profit.
If the person stuck around, they'd be leaned on to tithe, and twi makes
10% plus whatever else they could be squeezed for-
lcm said 15% and the goal was 'everything beyond your immediate need',
and there were always MORE classes and MORE books,
and whenever "the bookstore" was run at an event, even items like
concordances were priced retail after twi got a ministry discount,
so twi ALWAYS made every penny they could. Oh, and don't ever think
they PAID the people who ran "the bookstore" at events.
Unless you were at hq at the permanent one, they were unpaid volunteers.
Remember,
your money is always welcome at the way.
Sometimes, you are welcome to accompany it.
(Ask me for more details later.)
5)
Requirement for hours going door-to-door?
The answer to that is pretty much the same as the answer to 3).
Let me know if you need more info after rereading it.
On this site can you point me in the direction of a thread were it explains TWI doctrin.I've read a lot of the threads but I'm still confused as to the peticulars of the doctrins.
6)
You've been reading the threads in "About the Way."
At the top of "About the Way" are 2 "sticky/pinned" threads.
One is called
"Welcome to the Greasespot Cafe (a guide for new arrivals.)"
I was 'in' for 18 years, and I attended one ROA. I did know others who attended 2 or 3 ROAs, though I also knew many others who never did go to one. My impression was that few folks ever attended more than maybe 3 ROAs.
I was 'in' for 18 years, and I attended one ROA. I did know others who attended 2 or 3 ROAs, though I also knew many others who never did go to one. My impression was that few folks ever attended more than maybe 3 ROAs.
:)
On the other hand, in some areas, ROA pretty much cleared out the twi people for a week.
I've had a Branch meeting at an ROA that was about Branch-sized.
And the whole thing of people meeting in "their twigs" meant it was expected that
enough people from home were visiting that they could run a small meeting.
(Although it was also said you could just find one meeting anywhere if yours wasn't
When you went door to door did you have to count your hours and turn them in?
When you went door to door what was the purpose?
Was there a requirement of hours you had to put in the door to door ministry?
On this site can you point me in the direction of a thread were it explains TWI doctrin.I've read a lot of the threads but I'm still confused as to the peticulars of the doctrins.I would like to learn as much as possiable so I don't sound stupid to all of you for not knowing. :)
I have more but I don't want to over load anyone.So I'll save them for later.
(1) No water baptism requirement to participate.
(2) I have no idea... ask Wordwolf.
(3) No requirement.
(4) Going door to door was essentially a WOW activity. WOW was a one-year commitment where the participant volunteers to witness 8 hours a day, 6 days a week, some of which included door to door witnessing. I was WOW twice, and door to door was not very frequent, but there was some. The purpose was to make twi fellowships available, and sign folks up for PFAL classes.
(5) No requirement other than WOW when the family fellowship decided to go.
You will find answers to some of your questions will vary, depending on what time-frame the person was involved and who their direct leadership was. For instance, Oldies refers to witnessing door to door as mainly a WOW duty. However, it was in and out of TWI long before I was ever in. During my tenure (91 - 2000) it was different. During my early years in TWI it was not something we did, but by the late 90s it was an almost weekly outing as part of our "fellowship meetings".
We were not required to turn in a written report, but we were to write down the name and address of anyone we though we might want to follow-up with. We were also required to give a verbal report to our direct leadership, who in turn gave a written report to their direct leadership, and on up the tree it went.
When door to door came out in 1974, it was NOT essentially a WOW activity.
It was initiated I believe to the Way Corps initially, and then mandated to the entire ministry around October 1974. In the state of Indiana, we had to get out a map of our city, section it off, and set a goal of knocking on every door within a year's time. It was somebody's idea of systematically getting der Vord ober der Velt. Every TC in Indiana had to have a plan, and see to it that every person in the fellowship went along.
Was the first time I had deep dread about obeying my leadership, but I was apprentice Corps, and what the hell, we were supposed to get over our fear, right?
I Witnessed door to door quite abit in the mid to late '70s. Why? It was mandated. Sure, you could say "no" and go back home if you were a rank and file believer but the peer pressure was intense to comform. If, on the other hand, you happened to be a twig leader or branch leader, what really were your options? I never really saw much result from door to door. There was an upside, however, and that was that that some of our shy members were able to stretch outside their shells and become more experienced in one on one discourse. GROUP MALL WITNESSING! now that's a whole other horror story begging to be told. I'll do the begging if someone else will do the telling.
"GROUP MALL WITNESSING! now that's a whole other horror story begging to be told"
HA! I never did the mall thing, though we did try grocery store parking lots and bookstores. I HATED both. The idea in the parking lot was to try to help people getting their groceries to their cars and witness to them in the process. To show them that the good little Wafers were all about giving. But were we really? A decent number of people refused our help even before we got to witnessing. Imagine having two (yes we did it 2 by 2) complete strangers approaching you in a parking lot and wanting to "help you with your groceries" by escorting you to your car? (Remember this was in the 90's - I know I wouldn't want to complete strangers escorting me to my car in a parking lot!!!!!!)
Bookstores came later. I actually love browsing bookstores, and was not afraid to approach someone and strike up a converstation. However, by this point in time I was so fed up and discouraged with TWI that I really had no desire to witness at all. I don't think anyone in our fellowship did. We went to the bookstore faithfully, but I don't think any of us, including or coordinators, ever actually witnessed to anyone.
I recall a few times when a WOW family was coming into the area, so the LC would have this great idea for the entire state to meat in that community and to go through the surrounding blocks and any shopping malls. Door to door witnessing and inviting folks to begin attending the WOW's fellowship.
Sometimes it was the only time that we would get to see the WOWs in their home.
We would see them at Branch functions [if the branch meetings was within the WOW's city limits], but otherwise we were usually forbidden from making contact with the WOWs.
I remember going to branch functions and TC meetings, where the meeting was just outside of the WOW city limits. Since they were not allowed to step outside of their assignment town for the year, they could not attend the branch function. But the BC or LC would be telling us all about how great the WOWs were doing. It would be funny since they would have been there for a year, but no body in the branch had met them [except for the BC or LC].
Oh Geeze! Remember the times we'd show up for a fellowship or branch meeting and "Surprise!! We're going witnessing tonight!" :blink:
No way to get outta that one!!
Whenever someone moved into a new place, before the bags were unpacked, they were "invited" to host fellowship at their place so we could go door to door in the new neighborhood.
We had to turn in cards of the number of people we talked to - the number of contacts from THOSE people we talked to - Names and phone numbers of the people who were contacts - then we had to "report back" on those "contacts" and how our "follow up" when with them.
In my area, all contacts had to be contacted within 24 hours.
Regarding #s. Was it 4,000 we determined a few years ago? We keep hearing about people leaving every day and there are new folks contacting me via PMs who never post, but are either newly out or "on the fence". I think WW's assessment of about 2,000 is probably about right. But Boob and Dootie are in the UK racking up the numbers and running classes left and right, I'm so sure! <_<
I'll bite, Waysider. Mall Witnessing! Ick! What a crock of s&*(! We would land at the mall and pair off. Then we would prowl around until we could find someone who wasn't shopping at that moment. We would cozy up to them and strike up some fake conversation about the day, kids, music ...you name it. The point was to "bring it around to the Word", somehow, and get phone numbers. We were asked to leave the malls more than once, but our "leaders" would quote some scripture about obeying God rather than men, as if what we were doing in the mall like that was mandated and required in the scriptures.
During the last few years I was in we had a yearly theme about all of this ... confronting the world with the Word or something to that effect. We were sat down at the time the theme was announced and point-blanked asked, "Do you have any problem with that?" At the time, I did not know what the question meant. Later on I would learn about the monitored witnessing activities.
One I remember vividly - Saturday afternoon. The branch had been instructed to meet at such a home, unless we had a work or other acceptable conflict. We listened to about 60 minutes of "sharing," prayers, instructions, reviewing of instructions, card/map assignments, pairing, etc. Then we went out on foot. We were told to knock on certain doors and NO MORE! We were done with ours in less than 30 minutes. NO ONE was home! Returned to said house for another 90 minutes of sharing, more prayers, card turn-ins, congratulations, etc. It was enough to gag a maggot! I left thinking what a waste of God's time!
But the kicker - the LC's wife had "witnessed" to a co-worker, but had not had the "time" to follow up. Actually, she was moving from the area and asked the BC to follow up, right away. She was too busy to do it .. with all the work of the ministry, you know. So she asked me to follow up "right away." In the assignment of this task, she told me that the LC's wife had mentioned the necessity of doing it right away, although from my calculations, this "interested" person had not been contacted for at least a month. I did not call her that night and was confronted the next day. Why had I not jumped right on it? I did make contact with her the next day and she was as rude a person as I had ever tried to witness to. She had NO INTEREST whatsoever and I was to NEVER contact her again! Of course, I reported back to BC, who reported to LC's wife ... well, it ended up being my weakness in that I had not responded quickly enough. Urrrrr!!!
glad I got out when I did... we went witnessing way back when... but it wasn't really the kind of experiences I usually see here... we just went out and had fun... made friends with people, told them about twig... it was more of a "your life is a witness" kind of thing...
none of this forced krap... but that was all 1980 and before...
I remember well...The branch leader would tell us all that we were to take our twigs out "door to door witnessing" that week. Some kiss foot schmuck would always go "Allll riiiight", as if he really liked it.
...Of course, the strategy was NOT to tell the twig members ahead of time because if you did, they wouldn't show up that night... :(
When the dreaded night would come, you would announce it right after opening prayer...immediately, most of the folks there would get a look on their face like they just smelled a really bad fart...
and usually, at least one or two would say..."Oh, I meant to tell you but I can't stay long tonight...My child has whooping cough and I have to get home early"...
I never had a fear of knocking on doors, as much as an apprehension to looking like a "Jehova Wirness" to whoever answered the door...I might as well have taken a magic marker and wrote "religious fruitcake" on my forehead.
At the end of the night everyone would put on their believer face and pretend that they had some "potentials" who were interested...the fact of the matter was that most of us couldn't wait to go home and have a "tall cold one" or maybe "fill the bowl" ...
...some of those nights were like getting a root canal with no novacaine.
Well, I do have to say I did get prayers answered while doing the door to door crap witnessing. I prayed to God that I would never run into anyone I knew and HE answered that prayer!
Catcup, you know darn well common sense was NOT allowed in TWI!
Blind obedience was requisite - why else would they pound into our head to follow leadership because they were appointed by Gawd and, even if they were wrong, Gawd would honor our obedience. Our own common sense and brains could be screaming that the TWIt was full of SHI+, but we were expected to ignore that and boldly obey with no fear. :blink:
Yeah, right. That's the last time I take someone else's word over my own gut and brain.
We did door to door back in 1975 as WOWs, and again at the insistance of an interim 7th corps girl sent to our town after "the field", so it was happening before the 80's. I still remember the stench of urine and stepping around people sitting on the stairs in a funky DC apartment house we were invited into. This little white girl from the Southwest was scared to death to be in an urban setting. (Hey, even though I had fear...aka negative believing...nothing bad happened to me). At the time we were sent to DC, we were told it had the highest crime rate in the nation. I know someone in another family was robbed, someone else had a knife pulled on him, and I don't remember all the rest. Even when we went to some of the nicer neighborhoods I still hated door to door. It's just not natural.
Of course it wasn't natural. It wasn't carnal. But it was damn challenging.
But when you're on a divine mission, an ambassador for Christ, when you believe Christ may return at a moment's notice, when you believe your actions are godly and significant and profitable and you are doing God's work, and you had that mindset, it was a blessing no matter how difficult it seemed.
God looks on the heart. God honors works done in His and Christ's name.
If you didn't have that mindset, I think you were just wasting your time.
Recommended Posts
dmiller
WordWolf --- care to reply? ;)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
The short version here -- until WordWolf shows up.
Twi taught *baptism in the spirit*, vs. water.
Twi lost (some say) 70 plus thousand back in 1985/ 86/ 87.
We (here at GSCafe) are still trying to determine how many are active.
Speculation (these days) is that it is a handful, perhaps 2.000 or less are active now.
Going door to door was to recruit folks for the PFAL class
Pfal = Power For Abundant Living).
Twi thrived on classes and *seminars*.
If you were a WOW (Word Over the World Ambassador) --
you were supposed to hold a part time job, and witness full-time for the *ministry*.
This changed over the years, and I'm not sure what the current requirements are.
Again -- this is the *short version*. Others can ellucidate/ clarify much more clearly than I. :)
Edited by dmillerLink to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
How did I become in charge of answering all the questions?
:blink:
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
I don't know how questions about twi don't end up in "about twi", but I'll give this a shot.
1) If you mean "infant water baptisms", no. twi taught/teaches that water is unnecessary,
but a baptism in holy spirit IS necessary, and that requires no ritual.
Occasionally, a parent may do some sort of "dedication" ceremony-declaring they will raise their child
up according to the Lord/twi doctrine, but I haven't heard of that becoming common, standardized,
or a requirement. (Then again, if it HAS, it would not surprise me.)
2)
twi has always been fond of inflating their numbers. They've claimed over 100,000 people have been
members, when perhaps, at most, 100,000 ever took their foundational classes-both verions.
What that means is there were maybe 100,000 people who signed up for pfal and wap.
Please note that many or most who took wap had taken pfal, but wap was mandatory sooner or later.
Not everyone who signed up made it to Session 12, not everyone who made it to Session 1 completed
Session 12. (That's using pfal Sessions, I don't know what the final session# was for wap.)
And not everyone who completed pfal was there past 3 months or past 1 year. Using my own pfal class
as a guesstimate, 250,000 of the people claimed were every actually attendees, and that was across the
entire history of twi, not as attendees the entire time. (Many people who joined in the early 70s were gone
by the mid-70s, and so on.) So, for "membership" at any one time, I'd say between 1/5 and 1/10
of that would be more accurate, meaning between 50,000 and 25,000 at their biggest.
The best guesstimater I've ever heard was that 1/2 the current twi members attended ROA.
(Although occasionally new people attended.) So, take the number of attendees in any year,
double it, and you have the "membership" for that year. Attendance#s at ROA were consistent with
attendance#s overall, proportionally, and I got the statistics to back it up. :)
Someone once said that 24000 attended ROA '84, if only for a day or so, and that they
figured worldwide attendance to be somewhere approaching 40,000 that year-their apex of membership.
If we are being generous, I'll say 40,000 at the most, with 30,000 as the biggest possible
US attendance, with the remainder across all other countries.
That changed in the years between 1985-1990.
vpw died in 1985, and he'd appointed lcm as his successor a few years before. lcm was unable to pull off
the mysterious "I have a connection with God that you don't" thing vpw did. Around 1985, some leaders
protested "difficulties" at the leadership level, and cg wrote up "passing of the patriarch."
The next few years are what lcm himself called "the fog years", and ended in 1989, when lcm
"drew a line in the sand" and demanded all twi people declare an oath of loyalty to him, and anyone who
didn't wasn't welcome in twi anymore. That heavy-handed maneuver used to work when vpw used
it on SMALL numbers of people in his "way corps" program, but when lcm tried it on a large scale
at that place and time, it blew up in his face.
A FEW people had split 1985-1987, but 80% of the group left 1989-1990.
(ROA 1990 had fewer than 20% of the attendees ROA 1988 had.)
Since then, the group has been hemmorhaging members. They have nothing with which to
draw new people, and other Christians have more to offer their CURRENT members than they
themselves do. The organization currently has 4 types of members:
A) those in power who must keep the group together or face unemployment
B) those inside so long they're terrified of the outside world and other Christians
C) those kids who've been educated to be terrified of the outside world
D) members who are looking for a good chance to leave.
A number of years back, twi quoted ALL membership as 5000 worldwide.
That included small children.
The group is still in "negative population growth", but they went back to hiding their
numbers. Based off a more recent meeting, and skipping those not old enough to
take their classes, membership is somewhere closer to 1500 adults,
possibly 2000 total members overall, but more likely less at present,
and never likely to INCREASE. Numbers of losses can slow, but they won't REVERSE.
So,
membership peaked in 1984 at approximately 40,000 worldwide.
Membership as of 2006 is probably about 1,500 worldwide.
With numbers being hidden by twi whenever possible.
3)
Door-to-door....
There apparently was a short, aborted program to "sell" pfal door-to-door in the 1970s.
Most people don't remember that, since even those "in" at the time often heard nothing
about it.
In the 1990s, after more than 80% of the members had left, lcm tried lots of things to
increase the amount of money coming in, and to increase numbers.
(He'd chased off most of the people-and most of their tithing, more importantly.)
One of them was requiring door-to-door in some areas.
Further, at some points, all the corps grads in state were called in for a statewide
("limbwide") meeting. When they arrived, they were paired off and told to go
door-to-door.
At some points, wows (one-year committments to go "sell pfal") would go door-to-door.
That was more often than other people doing it.
So, there's different types of people to answer this,
thus, different answers.
I AM aware that the 1990s under lcm was a period of INCREDIBLE legalism and
anal-retentive record-taking and rules-following were richly rewarded and wildly encouraged.
During that time-period, I would be VERY shocked if each person wasn't required to
keep records. I do know someone said they were told to keep track of what blocks
they'd covered before, so they'd skip them next time.
Edited by WordWolfLink to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Ok, I covered 1-3 so far....
4)
The purpose of going door-to-door was to SELL PFAL/WAP CLASSES.
There were pep talks that said things about blessing the people and stuff,
but the intent was to SELL foundational classes,
pfal in the 70s/80s,
wap in the 90s/00s.
Why?
Well, it was faster to sell a class, and the goals were more concrete.
Supposedly, someone might want to stay in the group once they finished it.
(Of course, it failed miserably with wap, since wap only worked with
people who had a background in twi for a year or more, and didn't
question lcm's poor explanations.)
The MAIN reason it was to SELL CLASSES, though,
was because selling classes meant selling seat in the class, which meant
that twi made more money. (ALL TWI CLASSES WERE ORGANIZED AS
PROFIT-MAKING VENTURES. TWI CLASSES WERE NEVER DESIGNED TO
'BREAK-EVEN' OR EVEN CONSIDER THAT AN OPTION.)
So, if the person just paid for the class, then twi made a profit.
If the person stuck around, they'd be leaned on to tithe, and twi makes
10% plus whatever else they could be squeezed for-
lcm said 15% and the goal was 'everything beyond your immediate need',
and there were always MORE classes and MORE books,
and whenever "the bookstore" was run at an event, even items like
concordances were priced retail after twi got a ministry discount,
so twi ALWAYS made every penny they could. Oh, and don't ever think
they PAID the people who ran "the bookstore" at events.
Unless you were at hq at the permanent one, they were unpaid volunteers.
Remember,
your money is always welcome at the way.
Sometimes, you are welcome to accompany it.
(Ask me for more details later.)
5)
Requirement for hours going door-to-door?
The answer to that is pretty much the same as the answer to 3).
Let me know if you need more info after rereading it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
6)
You've been reading the threads in "About the Way."
At the top of "About the Way" are 2 "sticky/pinned" threads.
One is called
"Welcome to the Greasespot Cafe (a guide for new arrivals.)"
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=7913
It's designed so that new arrivals can get basic information without asking a stack of questions FIRST.
(AFTER, it's perfectly fine to need lots of answers.)
It gives a tour of all the places you'll want to look over and read.
There's permanent documents, audio files, editorials and so on accessible
from the Main Menu and Documents sections.
It will take MONTHS to really do a complete read-through of all of them.
I recommend even old-timers review them once a year as a refresher.
(I review them 1-2 times a year myself, although I don't reread ALL the
files and newspaper clippings each time.) It makes it easier to remember
what's written where.
As that sticky points out, the GREASESPOT 101 forum
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showforum=12
has some threads that are especially useful for new arrivals.
Of particular utility for them would be the glossary of terms
such as it is:
"Way-speak and Greasespot-speak."
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=4734
It's unorganized, and there's discussions running thru, and someone
decided to throw in a stack of terms that were never used by either
twi or the GSC (this place),
but at the moment, it's the best one-stop-shop for an introduction
to various concepts, practices, doctrines, names and so on
connected with twi's past and present that exists.
(Eventually, me or someone else will improve on it.)
Feel free to ask more questions-but please at least review that
glossary first. And don't be surprised when people point you to
some of the documents and editorials when you ask more questions.
Your honest questions are always welcome at the Greasespot Cafe.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
That sounds about right.
I was 'in' for 18 years, and I attended one ROA. I did know others who attended 2 or 3 ROAs, though I also knew many others who never did go to one. My impression was that few folks ever attended more than maybe 3 ROAs.
:)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
On the other hand, in some areas, ROA pretty much cleared out the twi people for a week.
I've had a Branch meeting at an ROA that was about Branch-sized.
And the whole thing of people meeting in "their twigs" meant it was expected that
enough people from home were visiting that they could run a small meeting.
(Although it was also said you could just find one meeting anywhere if yours wasn't
in attendance.)
So, it averages out to roughly 50/50.
Which means we agree it's "about right."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
(1) No water baptism requirement to participate.
(2) I have no idea... ask Wordwolf.
(3) No requirement.
(4) Going door to door was essentially a WOW activity. WOW was a one-year commitment where the participant volunteers to witness 8 hours a day, 6 days a week, some of which included door to door witnessing. I was WOW twice, and door to door was not very frequent, but there was some. The purpose was to make twi fellowships available, and sign folks up for PFAL classes.
(5) No requirement other than WOW when the family fellowship decided to go.
Edited by oldiesmanLink to comment
Share on other sites
Abigail
You will find answers to some of your questions will vary, depending on what time-frame the person was involved and who their direct leadership was. For instance, Oldies refers to witnessing door to door as mainly a WOW duty. However, it was in and out of TWI long before I was ever in. During my tenure (91 - 2000) it was different. During my early years in TWI it was not something we did, but by the late 90s it was an almost weekly outing as part of our "fellowship meetings".
We were not required to turn in a written report, but we were to write down the name and address of anyone we though we might want to follow-up with. We were also required to give a verbal report to our direct leadership, who in turn gave a written report to their direct leadership, and on up the tree it went.
Edited by AbigailLink to comment
Share on other sites
Catcup
When door to door came out in 1974, it was NOT essentially a WOW activity.
It was initiated I believe to the Way Corps initially, and then mandated to the entire ministry around October 1974. In the state of Indiana, we had to get out a map of our city, section it off, and set a goal of knocking on every door within a year's time. It was somebody's idea of systematically getting der Vord ober der Velt. Every TC in Indiana had to have a plan, and see to it that every person in the fellowship went along.
Was the first time I had deep dread about obeying my leadership, but I was apprentice Corps, and what the hell, we were supposed to get over our fear, right?
bunchacrap
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Yes it was a good way to overcome that fear.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
I Witnessed door to door quite abit in the mid to late '70s. Why? It was mandated. Sure, you could say "no" and go back home if you were a rank and file believer but the peer pressure was intense to comform. If, on the other hand, you happened to be a twig leader or branch leader, what really were your options? I never really saw much result from door to door. There was an upside, however, and that was that that some of our shy members were able to stretch outside their shells and become more experienced in one on one discourse. GROUP MALL WITNESSING! now that's a whole other horror story begging to be told. I'll do the begging if someone else will do the telling.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Abigail
"GROUP MALL WITNESSING! now that's a whole other horror story begging to be told"
HA! I never did the mall thing, though we did try grocery store parking lots and bookstores. I HATED both. The idea in the parking lot was to try to help people getting their groceries to their cars and witness to them in the process. To show them that the good little Wafers were all about giving. But were we really? A decent number of people refused our help even before we got to witnessing. Imagine having two (yes we did it 2 by 2) complete strangers approaching you in a parking lot and wanting to "help you with your groceries" by escorting you to your car? (Remember this was in the 90's - I know I wouldn't want to complete strangers escorting me to my car in a parking lot!!!!!!)
Bookstores came later. I actually love browsing bookstores, and was not afraid to approach someone and strike up a converstation. However, by this point in time I was so fed up and discouraged with TWI that I really had no desire to witness at all. I don't think anyone in our fellowship did. We went to the bookstore faithfully, but I don't think any of us, including or coordinators, ever actually witnessed to anyone.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
I recall a few times when a WOW family was coming into the area, so the LC would have this great idea for the entire state to meat in that community and to go through the surrounding blocks and any shopping malls. Door to door witnessing and inviting folks to begin attending the WOW's fellowship.
Sometimes it was the only time that we would get to see the WOWs in their home.
We would see them at Branch functions [if the branch meetings was within the WOW's city limits], but otherwise we were usually forbidden from making contact with the WOWs.
I remember going to branch functions and TC meetings, where the meeting was just outside of the WOW city limits. Since they were not allowed to step outside of their assignment town for the year, they could not attend the branch function. But the BC or LC would be telling us all about how great the WOWs were doing. It would be funny since they would have been there for a year, but no body in the branch had met them [except for the BC or LC].
Weird.
:)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Belle
Oh Geeze!
Remember the times we'd show up for a fellowship or branch meeting and "Surprise!! We're going witnessing tonight!" :blink:
No way to get outta that one!!
Whenever someone moved into a new place, before the bags were unpacked, they were "invited" to host fellowship at their place so we could go door to door in the new neighborhood.
We had to turn in cards of the number of people we talked to - the number of contacts from THOSE people we talked to - Names and phone numbers of the people who were contacts - then we had to "report back" on those "contacts" and how our "follow up" when with them.
In my area, all contacts had to be contacted within 24 hours.
Regarding #s. Was it 4,000 we determined a few years ago? We keep hearing about people leaving every day and there are new folks contacting me via PMs who never post, but are either newly out or "on the fence". I think WW's assessment of about 2,000 is probably about right. But Boob and Dootie are in the UK racking up the numbers and running classes left and right, I'm so sure! <_<
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Happyasaclam
I'll bite, Waysider. Mall Witnessing! Ick! What a crock of s&*(! We would land at the mall and pair off. Then we would prowl around until we could find someone who wasn't shopping at that moment. We would cozy up to them and strike up some fake conversation about the day, kids, music ...you name it. The point was to "bring it around to the Word", somehow, and get phone numbers. We were asked to leave the malls more than once, but our "leaders" would quote some scripture about obeying God rather than men, as if what we were doing in the mall like that was mandated and required in the scriptures.
During the last few years I was in we had a yearly theme about all of this ... confronting the world with the Word or something to that effect. We were sat down at the time the theme was announced and point-blanked asked, "Do you have any problem with that?" At the time, I did not know what the question meant. Later on I would learn about the monitored witnessing activities.
One I remember vividly - Saturday afternoon. The branch had been instructed to meet at such a home, unless we had a work or other acceptable conflict. We listened to about 60 minutes of "sharing," prayers, instructions, reviewing of instructions, card/map assignments, pairing, etc. Then we went out on foot. We were told to knock on certain doors and NO MORE! We were done with ours in less than 30 minutes. NO ONE was home! Returned to said house for another 90 minutes of sharing, more prayers, card turn-ins, congratulations, etc. It was enough to gag a maggot! I left thinking what a waste of God's time!
But the kicker - the LC's wife had "witnessed" to a co-worker, but had not had the "time" to follow up. Actually, she was moving from the area and asked the BC to follow up, right away. She was too busy to do it .. with all the work of the ministry, you know. So she asked me to follow up "right away." In the assignment of this task, she told me that the LC's wife had mentioned the necessity of doing it right away, although from my calculations, this "interested" person had not been contacted for at least a month. I did not call her that night and was confronted the next day. Why had I not jumped right on it? I did make contact with her the next day and she was as rude a person as I had ever tried to witness to. She had NO INTEREST whatsoever and I was to NEVER contact her again! Of course, I reported back to BC, who reported to LC's wife ... well, it ended up being my weakness in that I had not responded quickly enough. Urrrrr!!!
SOOOOO glad to be done with this insanity!
Clam
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
glad I got out when I did... we went witnessing way back when... but it wasn't really the kind of experiences I usually see here... we just went out and had fun... made friends with people, told them about twig... it was more of a "your life is a witness" kind of thing...
none of this forced krap... but that was all 1980 and before...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrouchoMarxJr
I remember well...The branch leader would tell us all that we were to take our twigs out "door to door witnessing" that week. Some kiss foot schmuck would always go "Allll riiiight", as if he really liked it.
...Of course, the strategy was NOT to tell the twig members ahead of time because if you did, they wouldn't show up that night... :(
When the dreaded night would come, you would announce it right after opening prayer...immediately, most of the folks there would get a look on their face like they just smelled a really bad fart...
and usually, at least one or two would say..."Oh, I meant to tell you but I can't stay long tonight...My child has whooping cough and I have to get home early"...
I never had a fear of knocking on doors, as much as an apprehension to looking like a "Jehova Wirness" to whoever answered the door...I might as well have taken a magic marker and wrote "religious fruitcake" on my forehead.
At the end of the night everyone would put on their believer face and pretend that they had some "potentials" who were interested...the fact of the matter was that most of us couldn't wait to go home and have a "tall cold one" or maybe "fill the bowl" ...
...some of those nights were like getting a root canal with no novacaine.
Edited by GrouchoMarxJrLink to comment
Share on other sites
Catcup
So you are saying that apprehension about blindly following leadership was a fear we all should have overcome?
I think it was a good way to override your own common sense.
Edited by CatcupLink to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Only if it's twi leadership that's being blindly followed.
It's wrong to blindly follow anyone else.
twi leadership gets a free pass because they taught Teh Werd.
<_<
In Wayworld, that's an admired goal.
In ex-wayworld, some 'countries' consider that a proud tradition.
And a source of nostalgia.
"Wasn't it wonderful back when we lemmings followed leadership off that
cliff that one time and demonstrated our great believing?..."
:blink:
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Belle
Well, I do have to say I did get prayers answered while doing the door to door crap witnessing. I prayed to God that I would never run into anyone I knew and HE answered that prayer!
Catcup, you know darn well common sense was NOT allowed in TWI!
Blind obedience was requisite - why else would they pound into our head to follow leadership because they were appointed by Gawd and, even if they were wrong, Gawd would honor our obedience. Our own common sense and brains could be screaming that the TWIt was full of SHI+, but we were expected to ignore that and boldly obey with no fear.
:blink: 
Yeah, right. That's the last time I take someone else's word over my own gut and brain.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
tonto
We did door to door back in 1975 as WOWs, and again at the insistance of an interim 7th corps girl sent to our town after "the field", so it was happening before the 80's. I still remember the stench of urine and stepping around people sitting on the stairs in a funky DC apartment house we were invited into. This little white girl from the Southwest was scared to death to be in an urban setting. (Hey, even though I had fear...aka negative believing...nothing bad happened to me). At the time we were sent to DC, we were told it had the highest crime rate in the nation. I know someone in another family was robbed, someone else had a knife pulled on him, and I don't remember all the rest. Even when we went to some of the nicer neighborhoods I still hated door to door. It's just not natural.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Of course it wasn't natural. It wasn't carnal. But it was damn challenging.
But when you're on a divine mission, an ambassador for Christ, when you believe Christ may return at a moment's notice, when you believe your actions are godly and significant and profitable and you are doing God's work, and you had that mindset, it was a blessing no matter how difficult it seemed.
God looks on the heart. God honors works done in His and Christ's name.
If you didn't have that mindset, I think you were just wasting your time.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.