He annointed "the class"........NOT

[allan w.]

Dave...I've just fired up the bbq for dinner...and you should be in bed...look at the time !!

[dmiller]

Allan -- Hey bro -- I'm not here to argue. But I do have a question for you. OK??

Someone does a piece of work.

They think it worthy enough to teach to others.

They are a trusting individiual, and feel no need to copyright it,

thinking that othes will respect their work, and maybe pass it on.

Someone comes along, and violates that trust, by taking what

was originally taught, and passes it off as his own.

Now -- You make a good point about *stealing* the bible.

Let's relegate that to another field -- (If you don't mind).

Let's take Science, or Physics -- Hey -- I know little about either --

Matter of fact -- I'd need a dictionary to define both (competently).

But you know what?? I understand that someone who has made

a discovery in either of these fields, made the discovery.

And Science, and Physics are absolutes -- just like the Word.

Were someone to come in and *steal* a scientific discovery,

that one person figured out, and claimed it *for their own*,

They would be laughed out of the community,

and given NO credence, whatsoever.

T'is a sad thing -- that you think docvic didn't *steal the bible*.

Well -- in reality he didn't -- but he did take what other honest,

hard working bible scholars accomplished -- and put his name to it.

When others work the Word -- produce results,

and someone like docvic enters the picture,

you can bet your bottomdollarandassaswell, that

STOLEN is the operational word (just my imo).

(OH -- PS --- I don't care about Joe Smith, or his outfit.

Never did, never will.

Now -- Pay attentiion to what you are trying to defend -- ok??

Yer the one with the ball in your court.

Let's see you *serve this one* up right, (If you can --- )

I stand by my accusation of *STOLEN*.

[templelady]

In answer to YOUR question Mo...no, why would God repeat this wonderful revelation over and over again to different people. Maybe God knew in His 'foreknowledge' that VP would be the one to 'stick his neck on the line' and run with it. Does Leonard, Bullinger still have their classes going

Whoa--

Just a minute

It was VPW that God told he would teach the word to like it had not been taught since the first century church.)

So God taught Leonard First--Before VPW????

If God says He is going to teach me something and no one else- Then I can rest assured of two things

God is going to teach me

and

God isn't going to be teaching anyone else

IF if fact God told VPW He was going to teach him the Word like it hadn't been taught since the first century church

then VPW would have been the one taught

not Leonard

Post your answers down in doctrinal if you like Mo, I thought it was a simple question, no need to 'dodge it'.

Maybe this is the core of the problem you have with me Allan

Scripture Given directly from God to VPW 0 God wouldn't even give revelation directly to VPW he had to go to Leonard, Stiles, Bullinger Etc etc

Scripture Given directly from God to Joseph Smith - The Book Of Mormon, The Pearl of Great Price & 135 Doctrines plus numerous revelations

TWI as of Dec 12, 2005

5,000 -7,000 Members

31 countries

LDS Church as of December 12 2005

12,560,869 members

63 Countries

The restored gospel is spreading by leaps and bounds

The LDS church is an active participant with other Christian organizations around the world in humanitarian aid and disaster relief

While TWI continues to dwindle

Even people such as yourself who vigorously defend VPW's teachings have abandoned the organization he founded

TWI's involvement with other Churches is nil

and there involvement in humanitarian work is nil even within the bounds of their own organization

[dmiller]

Mo ---

[WordWolf]

LOL!

Is "tiddlywinks" the new way of saying "egg sucking"? Must be that Narcisstic Personality Disorder that keeps people from seeing that they have become that which they supposedly despise.

Mo, I can't remember the term, but it's one of the dodges that WW talks about. When someone can't answer or argue a point made, they attack the messenger instead of responding intelligently to the actual question at hand.

"Ad Hominem attacks."

"One of the most common non-rational appeals is an argumentum ad hominem--or, as the Latin phrase suggests, an "argument against the person" (and not against the ideas he or she is presenting). Our decisions should be based on a rational evaluation of the arguments with which we are presented, not on an emotional reaction to the person or persons making that argument. But because we often react more strongly to personalities than to the sometimes abstract and complex arguments they are making, ad hominem appeals are often very effective with someone who is not thinking critically."

"Ad hominem fallacies take a number of different forms, though all share the fact that they attempt to re-focus attention, away from the argument made and onto the person making it. And remember--it doesn't really matter whether the terms of the attack are true or false. What matters is whether the argument is acceptable, not the person arguing it. After all, even if Adolf Hitler says so, 2 + 2 still equals 4."

Whenever we see these around here, it's usually a reliable indicator that someone was

unable to refute some glaring truth, and was desperate to draw attention from it.

In this case,

it was the great details of how vpw "photocopied" Leonard's class and claimed it was

entirely his own, AND lied to Leonard,

and vpw "photocopied" Stiles' book and claimed it was entirely his own,

While still claiming that God taught him and not man, and it was truths unknown for 2000 years.

(Despite them being both KNOWN and available to the PUBLIC at the time.

[allan w.]

Yo Mo, JWs' are even bigger than the mormons, catholic church are, hell even the muslims, so with all due respect numbers are no guarentee of 'truth' ay.

Jo smiths 'revelationary' volumes have more 'holes' in them than 20 year old undies left in a closet full of moths.

Dave, the scientific and physics discoveries you gave as analogies also often get 'added' onto and 'built upon' by others.

I think the previous posts documenting that VP and twi acknowledged Stiles, Bullinger, Leonards' works really is the reply you may be looking for.

[WordWolf]

Hey Belle...for someone who was 'heavily involved' helping a bunch of people from southern baptist revival meetings, something made you 'jump ship' ??!! Something 'impacted' young miss Belle.

Your post in itself lends credence to the fact VP WAS having some sort of 'impact' on mainstream Christianity !!

Hm, the term "heavily involved" is in quotes despite being a term Allan made up and not from

Belle's post at all. It's also a misrepresentation of what she said.

She said she had a lot of experience with revivals.

Much time, and much experience and much memory, does not necessarily equal

much INVOLVEMENT. That suggests she was staffing them.

Allan also makes the incredibly large leap that, supposedly,

Belle was an active member of a Southern Baptist church and went

immediately to twi. (That's what it would mean to "jump ship"

from that church into twi, which is what he was saying.)

With no proof of that, the idea that vpw "impacted" Belle (or her teeth, for that

matter) is an unsupported assumption based on a guess of Allan's.

Further,

even IF all those leaps and assumptions were true (which would surprise me),

saying that ONE person converted from something to something else says

nothing about the accuracy or content of what they're converting FROM or what

they're converting TO.

Need proof?

Every day, there are Christians who convert to Judaism or Islam,

Muslims who convert to Christianity,

Jews who convert to Christianity,

Christians, Muslims AND Jews who convert to paganism,

Christians who become atheist,

and people who join groups like David Koresh's Branch Davidians

and "Do"'s "Heaven's Gate" group.

To say that ONE person joining twi means that there's an "impact" on

mainstream Christianity is as accurate as saying that

atheism is having "an impact" on mainstream Christianity,

and paganism is having "an impact" on mainstream Christianity,

and the Branch Davidians had "an impact" on mainstream Christianity.

None of those is supported, and none is a guarantee ANY of them is correct

or has something of SUBSTANCE to offer.

(If they do, it's not because of this weak 'argument'.)

[WordWolf]

Yo Mo, JWs' are even bigger than the mormons, catholic church are, hell even the muslims, so with all due respect numbers are no guarentee of 'truth' ay.

But numbers are a direct indicator of that denistry thing you have a fascination with-

the "impact". The more members, the more "impact" a group is said to have.

Which, of course, means the Watchtower Society ALWAYS had much more "impact"

than vpw and his group ever did.

So have the Roman Catholics.

That's your OWN point you just refuted.

Thanks kindly.

Jo smiths 'revelationary' volumes have more 'holes' in them than 20 year old undies left in a closet full of moths.

"Needling:

simply attempting to make the other person angry, without trying to address the argument at hand. Sometimes this is a delaying tactic.

Needling is also Ad Hominem if you insult your opponent. You may instead insult something the other person believes in ("Argumentum Ad YourMomium"), interrupt, clown to show disrespect, be noisy, fail to pass over the microphone, and numerous other tricks."

Dave, the scientific and physics discoveries you gave as analogies also often get 'added' onto and 'built upon' by others.

I think the previous posts documenting that VP and twi acknowledged Stiles, Bullinger, Leonards' works really is the reply you may be looking for.

He was trying to make a much simpler point, not about innovations based on previous

inventions, but about a lying claim to have been the originator of an invention

that exists solely through the hard work of someone else.

(Or even something simpler, like, say, a special type of baseball pitch like a

sinker, screwball or slider,

or, say, basketball's 'hook shot'.)

The documentation WAS what addressed the question directly, but sometimes an

analogy can help when someone has difficulty seeing something directly.

(Presuming, of course, they're TRYING to see it.)

Edited October 18, 2006 by WordWolf

[WordWolf]

David... the numbers of twi'ers at the height of VPs' ministry would have included MANY from previous denominations, just having gs posters as a synopsis of these former twi'ers gives some insight.

Catholics, mormons, baptists, you name it, all knocked on the door of twi instituition at some point.

At the height of it, twi (maybe) had more than Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyer etc..put together.

Thats some impact.

A) People leave all kinds of groups and join all kinds of groups all the time.

I've known Christians who became pagans after being Christians.

I think you're confident this does not suggest paganism has more truth

than Christianity.

Likewise, if they'd left, say, Catholicism and joined twi, this would not

suggest twi has more truth than Roman Catholicism.

B) That's some imagination, not some impact

The impact of Joyce Meyers Ministries includes, according to MinistryWatch,

"Joyce Meyer has an ambitious international conference schedule including such places as Africa, Australia, Israel, Jamaica and the Philippines,

ongoing medical and hunger relief, orphanages, and prison ministries

in Latvia, India, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Belize and the Caribbean.

This is accompanied by a wide variety of tapes, books and videos that the ministry sells to its many adherents via slick catalogues. The ministry is also regularly available on radio and television, with its televised broadcasts reaching a potential audience of 2.1 billion viewers worldwide.

JMM, in response to questions about the concept of a “global congregation,” responds, “The traditional congregational church plays an absolutely essential role in the life of the believer. We have never desired to replace the local congregational church and fully encourage those we minister to, to find a local congregational-style church. If they cannot we will help them find one. Our focus is to equip all believers, strengthen them in their daily walk, and be the church for those who cannot attend, or do not have the option of attending a congregational-style church. This is why we are excited to be reaching into places like Iran with our Farsi language broadcast and into China, Cuba, and many other places where there is open hostility to the Christian faith.”

JMM also runs a hospital in a very remote part of central India, which provides free health care to the surrounding communities. The surrounding communities total approximately 100,000 people, with the JMM hospital the only one within 60 miles. Additionally, the number of orphanages now run by JMM is 41, spread across Asia. Currently JMM reportedly cares for over 1,000 children in these orphanages. According to JMM, during 2004 JMM supplied humanitarian relief in 42 countries.

JMM reports it has worked in India for over 10 years running orphanages, digging fresh water wells, building churches, providing feeding stations, working in leper colonies, providing medical care and reaching those who live on the streets. Consequently, it has an India office and an extensive network of volunteers throughout the region. JMM was able to make full use of this already established network when the tsunami hit last year, reporting that it provided immediate aid to over 30,000 people in the form of food, shelter, water, medical care and cleanup utilizing around 3,000 volunteers. Currently, JMM reports that it is completely rebuilding three villages, which translates into hundreds of houses, business, boats, rickshaws, bicycles, food, water and other needs to reestablish these devastated communities and allow the people to rebuild their lives. "

twi matched this ever?

As for VP 'stealing' the works of other men ?? As someone said before, how can one 'steal' the Bible ??

No more than one can accuse Joseph Smith of stealing the works of the freemasons, spiritualist churches etc..ay Mo.!

Are you claiming that the Bible is the result of "men" working?

If so, that's a logical response.

Otherwise, turning the proof that Leonard, Stiles, Kenyon, and others's books and classes

were taken by vpw and claimed to be his own work,

and claiming people were claiming vpw "stole the Bible"

is just another example of

"Straw Man (Fallacy Of Extension):

attacking an exaggerated or caricatured version of your opponent's position.

For example, the claim that "evolution means a dog giving birth to a cat."

Another example: "Senator Jones says that we should not fund the attack submarine program. I disagree entirely. I can't understand why he wants to leave us defenseless like that."

It's easy to refute someone when you get to change whatever they said,

and make up their arguments...

[allan w.]

Hehe..why don't we just leave gs to you WW ??!! You seem to want to answer for everybody else and I don't know if you haven't slept last night or what but I think thAT WOULD BE ONE OF THE 'LAMEST' POSTS YOU'VE DONE IN AWHILE !

You're attacking the messenger again...

T.V. evangelists viewers don't really count as far as impacting etc.. Joyce Meyer, Kenneth Copeland centres here in Australia are no more than a little industrial shed stuck out the back of somewhere. Maybe they've got bigger centres in Africa, India etc..??Oh yeah, and a p.o. box to receive the donations !

You and others are 'hooked' on this 'stealing' thing. If VP and twi had never given any credit to these other men, I might agree with you. The cold hard fact is credit was given where credit was due.

[allan w.]

And like you know...can you give me some sites where Stiles and Bullinger and Leonards classes or teachings are still going or happening ??

I googled their names and all I got was Juedes harping on about VPs' plagerising (er stealing) their works.

[VeganXTC]

Here you go Allen :)

http://ourworld.cs.com/LeonardBG/index.htm#FEATURES

[LG]

As for VP 'stealing' the works of other men ?? As someone said before, how can one 'steal' the Bible ??

Nobody claimed that Wierwille stole the Bible. He never claimed that the Bible was his own work. He did claim that the work of several other men was his own. That's lying. That's stealing. That's what plagierism is.

The cold hard fact is credit was given where credit was due.

No. The truth is just the opposite. Plenty of evidence has been cited, and some of it should be easy for you to check yourself. I presume that you have a copy of RHST. If so, check it for citations of Stiles or Bullinger. You'll not find them. What you will find is Wierwille claiming to be the author of a book that is essentially a compilation of works of Stiles and Bullinger.

Edited October 18, 2006 by LG

[WordWolf]

Hehe..why don't we just leave gs to you WW ??!! You seem to want to answer for everybody else and I don't know if you haven't slept last night or what but I think thAT WOULD BE ONE OF THE 'LAMEST' POSTS YOU'VE DONE IN AWHILE !

You're attacking the messenger again...

"Ad Hominem (Argument To The Man):

attacking the person instead of attacking his argument. For example, "Von Daniken's books about ancient astronauts are worthless because he is a convicted forger and embezzler." (Which is true, but that's not why they're worthless.)"

"There may be a pretense that the attack isn't happening: "In order to maintain a civil debate, I will not mention my opponent's drinking problem.""

"Needling:

simply attempting to make the other person angry, without trying to address the argument at hand. Sometimes this is a delaying tactic.

Needling is also Ad Hominem if you insult your opponent. You may instead insult something the other person believes in ("Argumentum Ad YourMomium"), interrupt, clown to show disrespect, be noisy, fail to pass over the microphone, and numerous other tricks."

Around here, that's usually a flag that the preceding posts can't be successfully argued with,

so the opponent switches to personal attacks to distract from the issues.

T.V. evangelists viewers don't really count as far as impacting etc.. Joyce Meyer, Kenneth Copeland centres here in Australia are no more than a little industrial shed stuck out the back of somewhere. Maybe they've got bigger centres in Africa, India etc..??Oh yeah, and a p.o. box to receive the donations !

No one said that-in and of themselves-they did. You missed several paragraphs where people

owe their lives to charity work in several countries.

I know, vpw made charity-work a dirty word. Since you have the poor with you always, f' 'em.

Don't give them ANYTHING.

Send it all to hq instead, as tithes, abundant sharing,

or PLURALITY GIVING.

Ever see another group that has a phrase meaning "send us all your money except your rent and

food bills"? twi had a phrase for it, which means they had the concept. Ever see another group that

had that concept?

It's rich to compare "receive the donations" for vpw and twi- where the money all went to hq and

STAYED THERE and never went out-

with groups that have performed amazing acts of mercy for people.

Which is more in line with God's thinking?

James 2:16-18.

"16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works."

This is really not that hard for most Christians to see.

You and others are 'hooked' on this 'stealing' thing. If VP and twi had never given any credit to these other men, I might agree with you. The cold hard fact is credit was given where credit was due.

The amount of intentional ignorance displayed here is incredible.

First of all, vpw did not satisfy the legal requirements to avoid plagiarism in ANY country.

Here's an introductory primer on the subject:

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/editorial/pl...m-wierwille.htm

In the actual bodies of work where he used the work of others-

and we're talking entire sentences, paragraphs, and in some cases, entire book sections,

not just "this idea was taught by this guy"-

full credit must be given. All OTHER Christians have NO DIFFICULTY doing this.

Need to see an example?

Flip through your copy of "Babylon Mystery Religion."

That book was almost entirely all taken from a book by someone else.

And it's properly credited all throughout the book.

Which does not in any way interfere with the contents of the book.

The names of Stiles and Leonard, in particular, are completely absent from the White Book

and the Orange Book, which is where they would have LEGALLY been required to have been

cited (repeatedly, like Woodrow did with his book.)

In fact, vpw made sure later editions of RTHST didn't even have the suggestion he learned

from other people.

Here's the closest vpw gets to even mentioning Stiles in RTHST:

""The Word of God is truth. I prayed that I might put aside all

I had been taught and start anew with the Bible as my

handbook as well as my textbook. It took me seven years to

find a man of God schooled in the Holy Spirit, a man who knew

the Scripture on the Holy Spirit, and could fit it together so that

I dod not have to omit, deny or change any one passage.

He made the Scripture fit like a hand fits into a glove,

and when you can do that, you can be assured of having

truth."

That's what he said about the man whose book he retyped and called

RTHST.

Oh, YOUR copy of that book doesn't have this paragraph.

That's because this is a quote from the SECOND EDITION.

ONLY THE FIRST TWO EDITIONS SAY THAT.

Here's how that same paragraph reads in ALL THE OTHER ADDITIONS:

""The Word of God is truth. I prayed that I might put aside all

that I had heard and thought out myself, and I started anew

with the Bible as my handbook as well as my textbook.

I did not want to omit, deny, or change any passage for,

the Word of God being the will of God, the Scripture must

fit like a hand in a glove.""

Interesting how the other man just VANISHES from the picture,

no? It's as if vpw later wants to take exclusive credit

("I started anew with the Bible as my handbook as well

as my textbook") for something that was exclusively

the result of Stiles-the UNNAMED Christian-working for

God ("...He made the Scripture fit like a hand fits into a

glove...")

As for Leonard, what's Allan's idea of "credit where credit is due"?

Well,

first, vpw takes his entire class without attribution.

When it goes into print (the Orange Book), vpw never mentions Leonard

even once.

And if you look hard enough through ALL the books twi ever released,

eventually you will find Leonard's name buried on page 207 of TW:LiL.

vpw took the ENTIRE contents of pfal class 1.0

from Leonard's class, UNALTERED. What did he say about Leonard?

TW:LIL, pg-207.

"He loved me, and I learned some stuff from him. He had tremendous believing.

That's why I love the guy."

"The summer of 1953, our whole ministry went up-Dotsie and Donnie and some of the

others from Van Wert. We took his whole trip- really learned a lot about the other

manifestations of the holy spirit. But he worked from personal experiences.

I worked what he taught from the accuracy of the Scriptures. When I came home,

I made up my mind that I was going to tie the whole thing together from Genesis to

Revelation. So I did, and in October, I had the very first 'Power for Abundant Living' class.

At that time, the Foundational Class and Advanced Class were together-the whole thing

in two weeks. But the syllabus today is basically the same. The basic principles from

the Word are the same. The class has filled out. But I knew the greatness of our

age-the age of holy spirit and that every truth must fit in the framework of the

manifestations. I just had to teach it to somebody."

"I taught without a syllabus, but the class was the same.

You could throw the syllabus away now and I could still teach it.

It's a burning reality in my soul.""

That same book has this to say about RTHST, which was Stiles' book

with vpw's name on it...

"TW:LIL, pg-209.

"Somewhere in there I wrote the first holy spirit book. I can't

remember exactly what year.

I'd been working those 385 scriptures and they began to all

fall into place."

"We're having the sixth edition printed now of

that book: Receiving the Holy Spirit Today.

It's a great piece of research.""

Everything except the 385 scriptures was all Stiles.

The 385 Scriptures was Bullinger's book

"the Giver and His Gifts", now known as "Word Studies in the Holy Spirit".

Hm. BULLINGER's name is missing for that book, too.

So, right after all those omissions of the authors of the work he stole,

vpw says this, which some people insist actually qualifies as a

disclaimer:

(supposing you ever read the page)

""Lots of the stuff I teach is not original.

Putting it together so that it fit-that was the original work.

I learned wherever I could, and then I worked that with

the Scriptures. What was right on with the Scriptures, I

kept; but what wasn't, I dropped."

How would any OBJECTIVE reader view this?

The cold, hard fact is that vpw went out of his way to claim he was the sole

author of books and classes that were either direct clones or amalgams

of the complete work of other Christians.

[rascal]

"Ad Hominem (Argument To The Man):

The cold, hard fact is that vpw went out of his way to claim he was the sole

author of books and classes that were either direct clones or amalgams

of the complete work of other Christians.

and THAT I believe is the difference beween the genuine and counterfit Christian.

It never really was his own. He just mimicked/copied genuinly spiritual Christians

[Belle]

"Straw Man (Fallacy Of Extension):

attacking an exaggerated or caricatured version of your opponent's position.

For example, the claim that "evolution means a dog giving birth to a cat."

We still haven't gotten more than one very lame attempt at proving that "VP at the height of his ministry was by all accounts really impacting mainstream Christianity". *hee haw!* *giggle* *snort* vee pee impacting mainstream Christianity.... That's got to be one of the best claims I've heard since the snow on the gas pumps hallucination.

WordWolf:

The amount of intentional ignorance displayed here is incredible.

I concur. Ain't it GREAT!! This thread has become my giggle fest this week.

I have Allen on ignore, but I already know for the most part what he's going to say - including avoiding any intellectual dialog and debate. I see he's reverted back to stalking Mo and changing the subject so he won't have to face the fact that vee pee was a con artist and that he, Allen, as conned just like the rest of us. If he continues teaching even half of what he learned from vee pee then he is no better than vee pee.

To answer his question about my "jumping ship": WW has it correct - Allen's "private interpretation" of my post is about as inaccurate as one can get. It's those foot-U-mptions that continue to keep his credibility in the gutter. There were more than 7 years between my Southern Baptist upbringing and getting involved with TWI. If I hadn't met my ex-husband when I did, I probably would have just faded away from TWI. That's where I had been headed when he moved back to Orlando. But, anyone who listened to Paw's interview on GSpot Radio or has been around for any length of time already knew most of that.

[waysider]

About 25 years ago I read a book called "On Death and Dying" written by Elizabeth Kubler-Ross.

In the book she states that people facing impending death go through five stages.

1.)denial and isolation

2.)anger

3.)bargaining

4.)depression

5.) acceptance

Leaving a long term relationship is much like a form of death whether it be divorce from a marriage or coming to grips with the realization that the group one has exited was actually a cult.

Alan W.----------I mean this to imply no disrespect,but is it possible you may be facing some form of this process? There are many here who have reached the acceptance stage and can help those who are still struggling through the first 4.At least consider if this may apply to you . There are many goodhearted folks here on GSC who have open ears to listen and a desire to help others through the struggle.

[allan w.]

You mean waysider that posters here have accepted that they are 'spiritually dead' ?

Thankyou, that clears it up for me BIGTIME.

[skyrider]

In fact, vpw made sure later editions of RTHST didn't even have the suggestion he learned

from other people.

Here's the closest vpw gets to even mentioning Stiles in RTHST:

""The Word of God is truth. I prayed that I might put aside all

I had been taught and start anew with the Bible as my

handbook as well as my textbook. It took me seven years to

find a man of God schooled in the Holy Spirit, a man who knew

the Scripture on the Holy Spirit, and could fit it together so that

I dod not have to omit, deny or change any one passage.

He made the Scripture fit like a hand fits into a glove,

and when you can do that, you can be assured of having

truth."

That's what he said about the man whose book he retyped and called

RTHST.

Thanks WW.

It needs REPEATING.

[allan w.]

Oh and Vegan, that site hasn't been updated for 4 years, did it fizzle out ?

[skyrider]

With regards to E.W. Bullinger and his impact on the pfal class......Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve states the following:

(p. 102) "Dr. Higgins was the person who introduced Dr. Wierwille to the great and influential works of an Englishman named E.W. Bullinger (1837-1913). She gave Dr. Wieriwille his first Companion Bible, containing the notes and appendix informantion of E.W. Bullinger, and a copy of How to Enjoy the Bible, also written by Dr. Bullinger."

(p. 102) "After reading these books by Dr. Bullinger, Dr. Wierwille wanted to consume his Journal of Biblical Literature, Figures of Speech Used in the Bible, and his other writings. Dr. Wierwille obtained the book, The Witness of the Stars....."

Note:......Dr. Higgins was an osteopathic physician who attended that first "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today" class in October 1953 when vpw taught B.G. Leonard's material. So, within one year.....from February 1953 to shortly after October 1953, Wierwille is CONSUMING (mrs. wierwille's viewpoint :) ) Bullinger's research work and publications to add to the thrilling work taught by Leonard in the holy spirit field.

GLORY BE...!!

[allan w.]

Glory be, amen, hallelujah ! So Dr. Higgins didn't really have a problem with VP's usage of the work ?

[templelady]

So Dr. Higgins didn't really have a problem with VP's usage of the work ?

And Your Point is????

Dr Higgins giving VPW copies of Bullinger 's work does not mean that Dr Higgins can confer Copyright issues to VPW

If I give you a copy of "Gone With the Wind" that doesn't mean that Margaret Mitchell's rights under Copyright laws are now null and Void

Sheesh!

[Belle]

It also doesn't mean that you advocate someone plagiarising the work.

How does one get that loaning someone a book or telling them about a particular author is an act of condoning illegal activity?? :huh:

This thread just gets more and more hilarious..... or is it more and more preposterous?

Either way, I am thoroughly enjoying the show.

Are we still waiting to see the documented evidence that "VP at the height of his ministry was by all accounts really impacting mainstream Christianity"? :P

[WordWolf]

Or at least a working-definition of a "tiddlywinks Christian".

Do they suck eggs?

Do they play tiddlywinks?

Can it core a apple?

=====

Actually,

I think very few-if any-object to vpw using Bullinger's books.

They object to blatant violation of Bullinger's copyrights,

and deception and fraud performed USING Bullinger's books.

Many of us have books of Bullinger. Many of us have read them.

Many of us have quoted from them and recommended them.

We just don't pretend we WROTE them.