Actually excath - a fair amount of plain and simple kindness... plenty o' other snot too but plenty of kindness. Look at al the good folk here at GSC. All ex-way zombies but plenty of kindness to go around. I bet most of the people here were kind when they were in.
sad thing about kindness... it keeps you trapped. like a prisoner who's beaten one moment then comforted the next by their abuser, it builds a sick dependency. the people in TWI became a mish-mash of the faces of TWI, like the organization itself had a life of its own, with many personalities. the man or woman screaming at you, belittling you, lecturing you, "reproving" you from the videos and tapes or in person was one face, then those kind loving people who comforted you afterward and explained God's heart in all of the reproof... kind of dulled my ability to feel at all.
the classic abuser beats his victim almost to death, then explains afterward how much he loves her and how he had to do it for her own good.
I saw bunches of kindness. And I saw bunches of unkindness.
The kindness was mostly from regular folks and people before they became BIG leaders. The unkindness was mostly from corps leadership and corps coordinators.
Oh and unkindness from the corps trying to make a name for themselves.
When I think about it... I can only name a handful of people who showed me genuine kindness in my 29 years in TWI. My context is kindness in time of need - not just nice or kind people in general.
Like Dot said - I can think of the unkindnesses as well -- and there are more than a handful of people who are guilty of that - also in time of need.
Of the kind ones, I will put Joe G***ini at the top of my list. He immediately came to my mind. He was the real deal. But folks like him were few and far between in TWI.
When I dealt with the peons, the "Joe Believers", many times, I was the
recipient of, or the witness to, acts of kindness done just to bless members
of "the family." 2 quick examples: As a brokeass kid, I raised the money
for "the class", and asked to borrow someone's Bible.
When I got to Session 1, someone gave me a brand-new Bible.
(A really nice one with large print.)
Another person I know balked at the class since they were hesitant about
raising the $40 (someone else broke.) Someone who had just met them
then offered to pay the $40 for them, no strings attached, no nothing.
(Looking back, I'm fully confident there were no strings attached.)
Many of us loved each other and did things-little things or big things-
to bless each other, because we wanted to.
I also met total strangers, both on staff, or at the ROA, or returning from the
WOW field, and we were usually quite kind to each other and offered each other
a hand-up.
Of course, that didn't speak for EVERYONE. Some people who were leaders
locally, or trained leaders from hq, or training IN hq,
should have had a funny walk from having to accomodate the stick up their keister.
==========
Looking back, it's interesting.
Although it always seemed (& felt) like there were NO CONDITIONS on anything
we did for each other,
it's probable that it was TIERED-
that we were that good to people in the group or entering the group,
but if you weren't interested, then you weren't treated quite as nice.
It has been said that
"the best way to have friends is to be one, and the true test of a friend lies in our treatment of people from whom we can expect no favours in return."
I think there's something to that.
On the one hand, it was often seen as more "watching each other's backs and watching out
for family." On the other hand, how easy it was to turn a deaf ear and a blind eye
to the problems and sufferings of those not IN the group?
Many church organizations "with inferior doctrine" have NO DIFFICULTY in reaching
out to help those from whom they can expect no favours in return.
Actually excath - a fair amount of plain and simple kindness... plenty o' other snot too but plenty of kindness. Look at al the good folk here at GSC. All ex-way zombies but plenty of kindness to go around. I bet most of the people here were kind when they were in.
I love you Rummy, but I disagree!
Some of us have learned what genuine kindness is all about even if we're ex-way zombies!
I know I knew the value of true kindness...My mother taught me before I ever joined twi. And you know she surpassed it! She still lives that way....
I try to think twice before I'll say anything to hurt anyone...OK, being sweet isn't neccesarily kind, it's just how you are!
Do you think about what you're saying? Do you think about how you can help someone? What about insight into someone's heart, and what will bless them? :)
Some of us have learned what genuine kindness is all about even if we're ex-way zombies!
In partial defense of Rum, I believe he was trying to say we were zombies... not that we are (ex-way) zombies, but instead ex (way zombies).
Now before he questions what I mean by partial defense, I will clarify...I think the fact that some showed genuine kindness in TWI shows that whoever did so wasnt a zombie, even then.
On the other hand, maybe it was his intent to point that out with a "tongue in cheek" remark. In that case ignore this post.
Trying to remember if I showed him kindness at any point?!
Oh yeah, now I remember...first day of classat Emporia, I swapped seats with him (we sat next to each other before and after) so he and someone else could sit next to each other because they were working on some important project.
Before I took PFAL, I went to twig at a house where the homeowner couldn't pay the bill, so her heat was turned off, or she couldn't buy oil, or her furnace was broke and she couldn't get it fixed, whatever. Anyway, it was FREEZING! So, the twig leader asked for money to help her, and I guess I gave more than what others did, and he came to me and asked me if I really wanted to give so much, and that I could take it back without any condemnation.
When I took PFAL, there was that stipulation where you had to be at all sessions, and you had to be on time. I was so sad, because I just started a new job, and there was no way I could get off from work to be at every session, and I really, really wanted to take PFAL. So, I went to the class coordinator (I know they weren't called that back then. Class leader, maybe?) and was crying and telling him I couldn't take the class, and he held me real sweetly, not like a creep trying to use me, and said there were make up sessions, not to worry.
When I was in residence, I lost my contact lenses, and couldn't see. Everyone who I asked let me borrow their glasses so I could see if something was written up front in the classes.
Drty Dzn let me dunk my cookies in his coffee.
I can think of a lot more acts of unkindness than I can of kindness. I know I did more unkind things than kind.
Actually excath - a fair amount of plain and simple kindness... plenty o' other snot too but plenty of kindness. Look at al the good folk here at GSC. All ex-way zombies but plenty of kindness to go around. I bet most of the people here were kind when they were in.
Hey Rummy, I might have misunderstood you. Sorry, if I did.
the more zombified I became, the more being kind was a risk. kindness was risky.... plus, I became really apathetic in general. we were supposed to have the greatest, sweetest fellowships on earth, the only place to get the real word of god, and I didn't want to bring people. kindness had been taught as a tool to suck them in... I wonder why I felt so guilty about not wanting to subject people to it, and why I didn't just leave... oh yeah, I had a lot to lose at that point, at least I perceived I did. just no kindness in sight. on the plus side, I think the more apathetic I got, the less unkind I was.
When I first became involved, there was lots and lots of kindness; helping each other move,giving rides, giving an extra jacket to someone who really needed it, etc. I think we did it,though, not because of anything we learned in TWI but because we were all in "the same boat" so to speak. We were young, shared the same dreams and had a genuine desire to see our mission succeed. Sometimes I envy those people who never went on to any of the various programs. They got to stay where the concern for each other was genuine.
Hey Rummy, I might have misunderstood you. Sorry, if I did.
Lifted, thanks for your input. I appreciate it.
No redface needed. All I meant was that if you look at the kindness here at GSC, and bear in mind our common thread is TWI, then there was some kindness there as well. Lots of unkindness- lots of pain, and other horrible things which are discussed on plenty of other threads... but I think that a common draw here at GSC is kindness, compassion, love, hope and more...
I think that the majority of folks here were probably kind when they were in residence or in TWI ... maybe subdued or confused by the circumstances... but kind in their hearts nonetheless.
I got in in 73 or 74 - can't quite remember - and there were all kinds of good folks. No doubt it was already dark at the top - but "on the street" it was still a bunch of us hippies believing in God and just kinda hanging... giving each other rides to ROA, cooking together, hanging out, happy to talk about God.
I am not justifying TWI in any sense - you, I'm sure have read a few of my other more crass posts. Just saying I think that there were kind folk at the grass roots level.
Geeze I am embarrassing myself by trying to be nice now...
Lifted - you're alright man - I appreciate the memories
Actually excath - a fair amount of plain and simple kindness... plenty o' other snot too but plenty of kindness. Look at al the good folk here at GSC. All ex-way zombies but plenty of kindness to go around. I bet most of the people here were kind when they were in.
I got in in 73 or 74 - can't quite remember - and there were all kinds of good folks. No doubt it was already dark at the top - but "on the street" it was still a bunch of us hippies believing in God and just kinda hanging... giving each other rides to ROA, cooking together, hanging out, happy to talk about God.
I am not justifying TWI in any sense - you, I'm sure have read a few of my other more crass posts. Just saying I think that there were kind folk at the grass roots level.
Geeze I am embarrassing myself by trying to be nice now...
Lifted - you're alright man - I appreciate the memories
You were a hippie??!!
And you're right of course. You are not shy about discussing "the snot" as you put it. In fact I think your posting here has an honesty that lends itself (IMO) to more believability when you unload on the bad stuff. And I'm sure you have plenty more to unload.
I remember several years ago when one of our frequent posters described very well an act of kindness he/she did for someone, but had to preface it with the disclaimer, "then waybrain took over", as if it were a curse to admit that he/she was expressing kindness as an individual.
Actually, I would be interested in hearing more of the not so good as you saw it.
I learned kindness from good people way before twi. I practiced kindness all through my years in twi. I was the recipient of kindness on more than one occasion - mostly by the "joe and jane believers."
My first "Twig leader" (remember when they were called that?) bought me a brand new Bible - the expensive Oxford kind - just because she said she wanted me to have it.
In Manhattan we were like family in the late 70's. We stuck together like glue and helped each other move, cooked for each other and spenyt as much time with each other as we possibly could. We just treated each other like family - that generates a lot of kindness. I do not recall any bickering - if it happened it wasn't in front of me.
At PFAL classes - we didn't just provide snacks - they were MEALS - because so many folks had to get there straight from work.
I found lots of kindness among the' rank and file'. How many got involved solely on the accuracy of da word ? The warmth and caring of the people is what initially made it attractive, and something to want to be a part of.
The higher up the tree one got, the more qualities like kindness became squelched. To be 'kind' was to be a 'wimp'. You want to show kindness? Confont them with the Word. As the years rolled on, and the hard nosed, confrontational lifestyle began to dominate, being kind almost became an underground act, so the local branch or limb leader wouldn't find out you were being 'wussy' with people.
Recommended Posts
RumRunner
Actually excath - a fair amount of plain and simple kindness... plenty o' other snot too but plenty of kindness. Look at al the good folk here at GSC. All ex-way zombies but plenty of kindness to go around. I bet most of the people here were kind when they were in.
Edited by RumRunnerLink to comment
Share on other sites
potato
sad thing about kindness... it keeps you trapped. like a prisoner who's beaten one moment then comforted the next by their abuser, it builds a sick dependency. the people in TWI became a mish-mash of the faces of TWI, like the organization itself had a life of its own, with many personalities. the man or woman screaming at you, belittling you, lecturing you, "reproving" you from the videos and tapes or in person was one face, then those kind loving people who comforted you afterward and explained God's heart in all of the reproof... kind of dulled my ability to feel at all.
the classic abuser beats his victim almost to death, then explains afterward how much he loves her and how he had to do it for her own good.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
thanks for replying
i have things i'm thinking about (mostly from the leadership training program) but i don't think i'm up to posting about it
how strange that i'm here still going over all this stuff. was the way my formative years ? like wheaties ?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
I saw bunches of kindness. And I saw bunches of unkindness.
The kindness was mostly from regular folks and people before they became BIG leaders. The unkindness was mostly from corps leadership and corps coordinators.
Oh and unkindness from the corps trying to make a name for themselves.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
yeah dottie i agree mwah
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Hope R.
When I think about it... I can only name a handful of people who showed me genuine kindness in my 29 years in TWI. My context is kindness in time of need - not just nice or kind people in general.
Like Dot said - I can think of the unkindnesses as well -- and there are more than a handful of people who are guilty of that - also in time of need.
Of the kind ones, I will put Joe G***ini at the top of my list. He immediately came to my mind. He was the real deal. But folks like him were few and far between in TWI.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
Amen on the Joe G thing.
HE was genuine
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
When I dealt with the peons, the "Joe Believers", many times, I was the
recipient of, or the witness to, acts of kindness done just to bless members
of "the family." 2 quick examples: As a brokeass kid, I raised the money
for "the class", and asked to borrow someone's Bible.
When I got to Session 1, someone gave me a brand-new Bible.
(A really nice one with large print.)
Another person I know balked at the class since they were hesitant about
raising the $40 (someone else broke.) Someone who had just met them
then offered to pay the $40 for them, no strings attached, no nothing.
(Looking back, I'm fully confident there were no strings attached.)
Many of us loved each other and did things-little things or big things-
to bless each other, because we wanted to.
I also met total strangers, both on staff, or at the ROA, or returning from the
WOW field, and we were usually quite kind to each other and offered each other
a hand-up.
Of course, that didn't speak for EVERYONE. Some people who were leaders
locally, or trained leaders from hq, or training IN hq,
should have had a funny walk from having to accomodate the stick up their keister.
==========
Looking back, it's interesting.
Although it always seemed (& felt) like there were NO CONDITIONS on anything
we did for each other,
it's probable that it was TIERED-
that we were that good to people in the group or entering the group,
but if you weren't interested, then you weren't treated quite as nice.
It has been said that
"the best way to have friends is to be one, and the true test of a friend lies in our treatment of people from whom we can expect no favours in return."
I think there's something to that.
On the one hand, it was often seen as more "watching each other's backs and watching out
for family." On the other hand, how easy it was to turn a deaf ear and a blind eye
to the problems and sufferings of those not IN the group?
Many church organizations "with inferior doctrine" have NO DIFFICULTY in reaching
out to help those from whom they can expect no favours in return.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Suda
I experienced probably 95% plain and simple kindness, and 5% unkindness. I was a mere Josette Believer on the field. The field was a good place to be.
Suda
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lori
:)
I love you Rummy, but I disagree!
Some of us have learned what genuine kindness is all about even if we're ex-way zombies!
I know I knew the value of true kindness...My mother taught me before I ever joined twi. And you know she surpassed it! She still lives that way....
I try to think twice before I'll say anything to hurt anyone...OK, being sweet isn't neccesarily kind, it's just how you are!
Do you think about what you're saying? Do you think about how you can help someone? What about insight into someone's heart, and what will bless them? :)
Edited by LoriLink to comment
Share on other sites
Kit Sober
kindness
Thanks excathedra for this most precious to me topic.
Kindness was the first and archtype of my type of biblical research. Ephesians 2:7: "his" is in italics before kindness because all kindness is "his"
All kindness in the world is from His hand.
That was the first mark of Holy Spirit I learned to look for. Kindness.
Yes I had some given to me. I always tried to give kindness.
I have a bracelet I wear always with the prayer of Jabez on it, the result he prayed for was that "I might not cause pain."
I think that the Holy Spirit gives kindness and the devil gives pain.
Kindness from Holy Spirit is clean. No hidden dirt with it. No pain at all comes from kindness.
Kindness is never part of manipulative measures.
Thanks, again, for this space, excathedra.
Your kindness makes me cry.
(I think that where the devil has dug out a soul, when we let holy spirit fill it up with kindness, that's pretty cool.)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lifted Up
In partial defense of Rum, I believe he was trying to say we were zombies... not that we are (ex-way) zombies, but instead ex (way zombies).
Now before he questions what I mean by partial defense, I will clarify...I think the fact that some showed genuine kindness in TWI shows that whoever did so wasnt a zombie, even then.
On the other hand, maybe it was his intent to point that out with a "tongue in cheek" remark. In that case ignore this post.
Trying to remember if I showed him kindness at any point?!
Oh yeah, now I remember...first day of classat Emporia, I swapped seats with him (we sat next to each other before and after) so he and someone else could sit next to each other because they were working on some important project.
Edited by Lifted UpLink to comment
Share on other sites
VeganXTC
Before I took PFAL, I went to twig at a house where the homeowner couldn't pay the bill, so her heat was turned off, or she couldn't buy oil, or her furnace was broke and she couldn't get it fixed, whatever. Anyway, it was FREEZING! So, the twig leader asked for money to help her, and I guess I gave more than what others did, and he came to me and asked me if I really wanted to give so much, and that I could take it back without any condemnation.
When I took PFAL, there was that stipulation where you had to be at all sessions, and you had to be on time. I was so sad, because I just started a new job, and there was no way I could get off from work to be at every session, and I really, really wanted to take PFAL. So, I went to the class coordinator (I know they weren't called that back then. Class leader, maybe?) and was crying and telling him I couldn't take the class, and he held me real sweetly, not like a creep trying to use me, and said there were make up sessions, not to worry.
When I was in residence, I lost my contact lenses, and couldn't see. Everyone who I asked let me borrow their glasses so I could see if something was written up front in the classes.
Drty Dzn let me dunk my cookies in his coffee.
I can think of a lot more acts of unkindness than I can of kindness. I know I did more unkind things than kind.
Edited by VeganXTCLink to comment
Share on other sites
Lori
Hey Rummy, I might have misunderstood you. Sorry, if I did.
Lifted, thanks for your input. I appreciate it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
potato
the more zombified I became, the more being kind was a risk. kindness was risky.... plus, I became really apathetic in general. we were supposed to have the greatest, sweetest fellowships on earth, the only place to get the real word of god, and I didn't want to bring people. kindness had been taught as a tool to suck them in... I wonder why I felt so guilty about not wanting to subject people to it, and why I didn't just leave... oh yeah, I had a lot to lose at that point, at least I perceived I did. just no kindness in sight. on the plus side, I think the more apathetic I got, the less unkind I was.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
When I first became involved, there was lots and lots of kindness; helping each other move,giving rides, giving an extra jacket to someone who really needed it, etc. I think we did it,though, not because of anything we learned in TWI but because we were all in "the same boat" so to speak. We were young, shared the same dreams and had a genuine desire to see our mission succeed. Sometimes I envy those people who never went on to any of the various programs. They got to stay where the concern for each other was genuine.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RumRunner
No redface needed. All I meant was that if you look at the kindness here at GSC, and bear in mind our common thread is TWI, then there was some kindness there as well. Lots of unkindness- lots of pain, and other horrible things which are discussed on plenty of other threads... but I think that a common draw here at GSC is kindness, compassion, love, hope and more...
I think that the majority of folks here were probably kind when they were in residence or in TWI ... maybe subdued or confused by the circumstances... but kind in their hearts nonetheless.
I got in in 73 or 74 - can't quite remember - and there were all kinds of good folks. No doubt it was already dark at the top - but "on the street" it was still a bunch of us hippies believing in God and just kinda hanging... giving each other rides to ROA, cooking together, hanging out, happy to talk about God.
I am not justifying TWI in any sense - you, I'm sure have read a few of my other more crass posts. Just saying I think that there were kind folk at the grass roots level.
Geeze I am embarrassing myself by trying to be nice now...
Lifted - you're alright man - I appreciate the memories
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lifted Up
I agree Rum. It was my experience as well.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lori
Thanks Rummy for clearing that one up for me.
I just learned something about kindness.....
Not to stick my foot in my mouth...
besides my shoe size just got bigger!!!!.....
Edited by LoriLink to comment
Share on other sites
Lifted Up
You were a hippie??!!
And you're right of course. You are not shy about discussing "the snot" as you put it. In fact I think your posting here has an honesty that lends itself (IMO) to more believability when you unload on the bad stuff. And I'm sure you have plenty more to unload.
I remember several years ago when one of our frequent posters described very well an act of kindness he/she did for someone, but had to preface it with the disclaimer, "then waybrain took over", as if it were a curse to admit that he/she was expressing kindness as an individual.
Actually, I would be interested in hearing more of the not so good as you saw it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RumRunner
Thanks Lori - OK I promise not to be nice anymore in my posts - grins
Link to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
Kindness - wow - good subject.
I learned kindness from good people way before twi. I practiced kindness all through my years in twi. I was the recipient of kindness on more than one occasion - mostly by the "joe and jane believers."
My first "Twig leader" (remember when they were called that?) bought me a brand new Bible - the expensive Oxford kind - just because she said she wanted me to have it.
In Manhattan we were like family in the late 70's. We stuck together like glue and helped each other move, cooked for each other and spenyt as much time with each other as we possibly could. We just treated each other like family - that generates a lot of kindness. I do not recall any bickering - if it happened it wasn't in front of me.
At PFAL classes - we didn't just provide snacks - they were MEALS - because so many folks had to get there straight from work.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
krys
Kindness??? (giggles)
I was much too old to be a hippy but I really envied them. Even so - I acquired the nick name "Earth Mother".
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
maybe I should not have said that
Link to comment
Share on other sites
hiway29
I found lots of kindness among the' rank and file'. How many got involved solely on the accuracy of da word ? The warmth and caring of the people is what initially made it attractive, and something to want to be a part of.
The higher up the tree one got, the more qualities like kindness became squelched. To be 'kind' was to be a 'wimp'. You want to show kindness? Confont them with the Word. As the years rolled on, and the hard nosed, confrontational lifestyle began to dominate, being kind almost became an underground act, so the local branch or limb leader wouldn't find out you were being 'wussy' with people.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.