waysider, it's a common tactic to withhold information when asked a direct question, either from fear of being exposed or out of a sense of power and superiority. possible both are at play here....
but this is what I gathered from my study of ck's earlier posts in an attempt to understand him (which also led me to believe he'd benefit from intensive therapy and medication, don't have to be a doctor to recognize delusions and deviousness)...
ck has never attended a twi fellowship, or if he did he was too young to remember it.
his parents, who are the authority on all things spiritual and smarter than God himself, were with twi back in the vpw days.
his parents were vpw yes-men and continue to elevate vpw to some kind of messianic position.
what is unknown is when and how they left (did they get kicked out? did they leave when vpw died and Lord Loy took over? dunno.)
at any rate, ck believes ONLY what his parents have told him. there is no other Truth. because his parents recollection of their experiences are the only Truth, no one can have experienced anything differently.
no harmony of the gospels, man. no scriptural build-up. just flat-out rejection of facts that don't fit with what his parents say happened, and God knows since they were so great, that God told them everything and that they know everything that was going on at all times, which is how ck KNOWS that none of the negative, abusive, sad, destructive stories related here could have happened.
Babylon is built at the junction of the two great rivers Tigiris and Euphrates. In olden times they were considered as being two great bodies of water. In those days other rivers were unknown. Babylon is often used to show corruption of political power. They were drunk with worldy power. Babylon means confusion. There was political confusion.
See, this reminds me of the quotes you guys have posted from lcm's wap class,
when he just invented connections between things that had no connections,
and kept going from there.
Seems someone confused "Babylon"-a country, an empire, etc
with "Babel" as in "the Tower of Babel"- from which we get confused speech as "babble".
Then they taught ck this, and he of course just memorized this without checking if it was
correct.
There is no connection between Babylon and Babel, nor Babylon and Baby,
the woman in the Dirty Dancing movie.
Similar-sounding names don't make them synonymous.
Babylon never meant confusion-whether political or otherwise. They had enough
organization to run an empire, which takes some doing.
One of their leaders, Hammurabi, is famous to this day for expanding and codifying
the existing laws of the time, and inscribing them where all citizens could read
them- the Code of Hammurabi.
I'm sure ck is unfamiliar with the Code of Hammurabi, despite some comparisons
made between penalties under the Mosaic Law and the Hammurabic Code,
observed by people like Bullinger in the Companion Bible.
Poor education makes one prone to making mistakes like this.
Babylon has had meanings involving empires and government,
but not "confusion."
That would be "Babel."
See that is how I see GS a mass of confusion with uncertainty at every step. There is no truth here at GS just confusion. So try thinking on this for a while and hopefully you can find you error.
(Just thought I would make you spill you coffee)
Since there is no hope of anything here all you do is come back to confusion. The most confusing thing about it to me is how you guys think you are right. So try believing sometime it works, it really works.
CK
Didn't need to try-the error leapt out at me.
Plus relying on your observations of the GSC is not what most observers would consider "wise."
And having confidence in God is a good thing.
However, there is no LAW of Believing, and as stated in the Blue Book,
it's completely incorrect.
We've had non-confusing discussions on it a number of times.
If you looked, you'd find some, but since you've taken the lazy way out, you won't.
To everyone at GSC, have a happy and healthy, prosperous new year. As we speak our minds and air our views, no matter good or bad, always remember, we are the lights and guidance to the newbies on the block and, more importantly, to those still on the inside trying to decide what to do.
We are the people who help them understand what is really going on and what has gone before.
To Belle, coolchef, wordwof, potato and the others, you are the example of what this is all about. Keep up the good work, eloquent or not. Your love and caring is what it's all about.....
Thanks so much to everyone who spoke out in my support. I really appreciate it. You guys know the respect I have for you.
I do think though that I should respond to CK's attack, post or whatever you call it. Lots of folks out there don't know me much if at all like many of you guys do.
VP was one of MANY mentors I've had (and still have) in my life. Lots of folks have had impact on my life in positive ways & some negative. I don't really view him above of below anybody who's ever taught me any thing at any time. I'm equally thankful to them (or you) all who've taught me stuff.
Failure? ME? I don't think so.
I'm thinking that I'll hold off on the suicide thing at least until I'm standing before my oldest daughter 2 1/2 years from now when she completes her undergrad degree from Yale where she's currently carrying about a 3.6 GPA. I'll be there at the ceremony to tell her for the umteenth millionth time how proud of her then tell her the exact same thing I've been telling her since the day she was born 20 years ago....
"Daddy loves you!"
Then there's the high school graduations of my two boys, then their graduations from college.... all of the things we seek to accomplish along the way in their lives, not to mention the goals I have for myself.
Let's not forget the littlest one, my baby girl who just turned 5 a couple of months ago.
I have PLENTY to live for.
Too much to list it all here.
I even like posting here at the cafe. I use this stuff to practice honing my communication skills while I strive to make coherent point about this stuff.
Stuff like Raf's comment about the "other uses" VPW had for the motorcoach.
That was a mind blower for me. I think about that often. VPW in some wasy is such an enigma a study in contradiction.
I DO think, over all he was "a great man."
He accomplished a good deal of things, positive. Yet the horribly heavy weight of his negative accomplishments - - that's the thing about him that is very hard to get over, past or around.
Wouldn't you agree? Those who've experienced the dark side of VP, most especially might.
CK, your rants ar emore laughable than anything.
No. I'm most likely not gonna mix it up w/ you.
I will say this for any & all in reach of this message.
There are some fundamental things, some things which shaped, in a very positive way, my character that I learned from VPW.
I can't deny that.
Were he alive today he'd be proud of me.
As would my Dad,
my teachers, coaches, family & friends, CHidren and some acquaintences are.
I'm even proud of myself.
I can thank VPW and TWI for a LOT of what makes me, me.
First & foremost however....
I thank GOD for being w/ me through some incredibly dark & bright days throught my 48 years of life.
I look forward to a great 2007.
I live what I lived, remember what I remember and stand by my comments.
I teach my children....
Lies don't change the truth.
You can't MAKE me anything - - including angry. Try as you might.
I'm growing in a lot of ways.
Spending time here at the cafe helps me grow.
I like it here.
Why would I want to kill myself?
BTW, CK.
"Almost ALL of the Wierwilles aren't dead.
They have children you know.
I'm still friends w/ ALL of them that I ever knew.
They like me & I like them too.
I don't approve of anything bad VPW did or anything anyone does.
I just do my best to "prove all things & hold fast to the good."
God told me to do that.
I still study his word.
I put lots of time into that, just like I saw VPW do.
Mostly though. My MOMMY told me that she had read the Bible through 13 times.
I have yet to reach that goal.
Bottom line is that I just don't put more importance on VPW than his life warrants.
There are tons of folks in my life who were & are more important to me than he.
As one ages, and matures, the concept of "being right" takes on less and less significance.
The concept of things, "as you see them" takes preeminence as mote time goes by and one gets more and more life expeience to look back on.
I'm sharing my experiences as they relate to and have helped form my personal opinions.
I'm not saying, this is, or that, is "right."
Only God is qualified to determine what is or isn't right.
Its funny how I've come to that conclusion. It seems that each and every time in my life whne I've had an "eureka moment" where I've thought, "I just know I'm right about that." I've later found out that I've only stumbled upon knowledge that was already there and has NOTHING to do w/ me.
I guess that's right.
Right?
We all have experiences and opinions and we all only count for 1. Some things ARE wrong.
Some things are right.
Some things just don't really fall into the category of right or wrong
I even like posting here at the cafe. I use this stuff to practice honing my communication skills while I strive to make coherent point about this stuff.
You have my permission to practice on me, us, the board, anytime (a lot of weight that carries ) I do the same thing.
You're always welcome here, HCW, and it's good to see you.
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T-Bone
I don’t blame yah – with someone going around defecating in everyone’s camp.
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waysider
"There is no truth here at GS, just confusion"
"Since there is no hope of anything here, all you do is come back to confusion."
-----------CK------------
Refresh my memory, why exactly is it that YOU come back?
Once again you have completely danced around my rather innocuous invitation.
I don't think you ever were actually personally involved in The Way.
Of course, you could still prove me wrong about that.
The ball is in your court, though I don't really think you are going to swing at it.
Rafs' idea is sounding better than ever.
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potato
waysider, it's a common tactic to withhold information when asked a direct question, either from fear of being exposed or out of a sense of power and superiority. possible both are at play here....
but this is what I gathered from my study of ck's earlier posts in an attempt to understand him (which also led me to believe he'd benefit from intensive therapy and medication, don't have to be a doctor to recognize delusions and deviousness)...
ck has never attended a twi fellowship, or if he did he was too young to remember it.
his parents, who are the authority on all things spiritual and smarter than God himself, were with twi back in the vpw days.
his parents were vpw yes-men and continue to elevate vpw to some kind of messianic position.
what is unknown is when and how they left (did they get kicked out? did they leave when vpw died and Lord Loy took over? dunno.)
at any rate, ck believes ONLY what his parents have told him. there is no other Truth. because his parents recollection of their experiences are the only Truth, no one can have experienced anything differently.
no harmony of the gospels, man. no scriptural build-up. just flat-out rejection of facts that don't fit with what his parents say happened, and God knows since they were so great, that God told them everything and that they know everything that was going on at all times, which is how ck KNOWS that none of the negative, abusive, sad, destructive stories related here could have happened.
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WordWolf
See, this reminds me of the quotes you guys have posted from lcm's wap class,
when he just invented connections between things that had no connections,
and kept going from there.
Seems someone confused "Babylon"-a country, an empire, etc
with "Babel" as in "the Tower of Babel"- from which we get confused speech as "babble".
Then they taught ck this, and he of course just memorized this without checking if it was
correct.
There is no connection between Babylon and Babel, nor Babylon and Baby,
the woman in the Dirty Dancing movie.
Similar-sounding names don't make them synonymous.
Babylon never meant confusion-whether political or otherwise. They had enough
organization to run an empire, which takes some doing.
One of their leaders, Hammurabi, is famous to this day for expanding and codifying
the existing laws of the time, and inscribing them where all citizens could read
them- the Code of Hammurabi.
I'm sure ck is unfamiliar with the Code of Hammurabi, despite some comparisons
made between penalties under the Mosaic Law and the Hammurabic Code,
observed by people like Bullinger in the Companion Bible.
Poor education makes one prone to making mistakes like this.
Babylon has had meanings involving empires and government,
but not "confusion."
That would be "Babel."
Didn't need to try-the error leapt out at me.
Plus relying on your observations of the GSC is not what most observers would consider "wise."
And having confidence in God is a good thing.
However, there is no LAW of Believing, and as stated in the Blue Book,
it's completely incorrect.
We've had non-confusing discussions on it a number of times.
If you looked, you'd find some, but since you've taken the lazy way out, you won't.
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Raf
T-bone beat me to the joke. :)
Alright, ready?
WWWWWWWipe! Flussssshhhhhhhh!!!!!
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T-Bone
…Nobody puts Babylon in a corner…
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potato
my water bill is gonna be so high this month!!!
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coolchef
most posters here on gs are very much more eloquent with thier post and more knowledgble than me so i will say it in my way
ck wake up you act like an ....
may you find peace brother
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J0nny Ling0
Here here Cool Chef! And have a beer on me!!
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Belle
Here, Here! I'll drink to that!
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ROW
Hey, all you x wayfers. Happy New Year to you all and may God bless you and yours.
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railroader II
To everyone at GSC, have a happy and healthy, prosperous new year. As we speak our minds and air our views, no matter good or bad, always remember, we are the lights and guidance to the newbies on the block and, more importantly, to those still on the inside trying to decide what to do.
We are the people who help them understand what is really going on and what has gone before.
To Belle, coolchef, wordwof, potato and the others, you are the example of what this is all about. Keep up the good work, eloquent or not. Your love and caring is what it's all about.....
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HCW
Hey gang!
Thanks so much to everyone who spoke out in my support. I really appreciate it. You guys know the respect I have for you.
I do think though that I should respond to CK's attack, post or whatever you call it. Lots of folks out there don't know me much if at all like many of you guys do.
VP was one of MANY mentors I've had (and still have) in my life. Lots of folks have had impact on my life in positive ways & some negative. I don't really view him above of below anybody who's ever taught me any thing at any time. I'm equally thankful to them (or you) all who've taught me stuff.
Failure? ME? I don't think so.
I'm thinking that I'll hold off on the suicide thing at least until I'm standing before my oldest daughter 2 1/2 years from now when she completes her undergrad degree from Yale where she's currently carrying about a 3.6 GPA. I'll be there at the ceremony to tell her for the umteenth millionth time how proud of her then tell her the exact same thing I've been telling her since the day she was born 20 years ago....
"Daddy loves you!"
Then there's the high school graduations of my two boys, then their graduations from college.... all of the things we seek to accomplish along the way in their lives, not to mention the goals I have for myself.
Let's not forget the littlest one, my baby girl who just turned 5 a couple of months ago.
I have PLENTY to live for.
Too much to list it all here.
I even like posting here at the cafe. I use this stuff to practice honing my communication skills while I strive to make coherent point about this stuff.
Stuff like Raf's comment about the "other uses" VPW had for the motorcoach.
That was a mind blower for me. I think about that often. VPW in some wasy is such an enigma a study in contradiction.
I DO think, over all he was "a great man."
He accomplished a good deal of things, positive. Yet the horribly heavy weight of his negative accomplishments - - that's the thing about him that is very hard to get over, past or around.
Wouldn't you agree? Those who've experienced the dark side of VP, most especially might.
CK, your rants ar emore laughable than anything.
No. I'm most likely not gonna mix it up w/ you.
I will say this for any & all in reach of this message.
There are some fundamental things, some things which shaped, in a very positive way, my character that I learned from VPW.
I can't deny that.
Were he alive today he'd be proud of me.
As would my Dad,
my teachers, coaches, family & friends, CHidren and some acquaintences are.
I'm even proud of myself.
I can thank VPW and TWI for a LOT of what makes me, me.
First & foremost however....
I thank GOD for being w/ me through some incredibly dark & bright days throught my 48 years of life.
I look forward to a great 2007.
I live what I lived, remember what I remember and stand by my comments.
I teach my children....
Lies don't change the truth.
You can't MAKE me anything - - including angry. Try as you might.
I'm growing in a lot of ways.
Spending time here at the cafe helps me grow.
I like it here.
Why would I want to kill myself?
BTW, CK.
"Almost ALL of the Wierwilles aren't dead.
They have children you know.
I'm still friends w/ ALL of them that I ever knew.
They like me & I like them too.
I don't approve of anything bad VPW did or anything anyone does.
I just do my best to "prove all things & hold fast to the good."
God told me to do that.
I still study his word.
I put lots of time into that, just like I saw VPW do.
Mostly though. My MOMMY told me that she had read the Bible through 13 times.
I have yet to reach that goal.
Bottom line is that I just don't put more importance on VPW than his life warrants.
There are tons of folks in my life who were & are more important to me than he.
He was what he was when he was it.
I am what I am when I am it.
Catch my drift?
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HCW
... on being "right."
As one ages, and matures, the concept of "being right" takes on less and less significance.
The concept of things, "as you see them" takes preeminence as mote time goes by and one gets more and more life expeience to look back on.
I'm sharing my experiences as they relate to and have helped form my personal opinions.
I'm not saying, this is, or that, is "right."
Only God is qualified to determine what is or isn't right.
Its funny how I've come to that conclusion. It seems that each and every time in my life whne I've had an "eureka moment" where I've thought, "I just know I'm right about that." I've later found out that I've only stumbled upon knowledge that was already there and has NOTHING to do w/ me.
I guess that's right.
Right?
We all have experiences and opinions and we all only count for 1. Some things ARE wrong.
Some things are right.
Some things just don't really fall into the category of right or wrong
Right?
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waterbuffalo
From HCW:
You have my permission to practice on me, us, the board, anytime (a lot of weight that carries
) I do the same thing.
You're always welcome here, HCW, and it's good to see you.
Hope you are well :-)
wb
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