Wait a sec... didn't Doc Vic say he was quoting someone on this particular line? I don't remember him ever taking direct credit for this particular saying as he did so many other stolen turns of phrase.
I don't believe he ever did in PFAL , I don't find that odd though I hear people quote sayings all the time without feeling the need to add a disclaimer at the end of their sentence. Case in point If life gives you lemons you....... What ? I bet everyone knows the rest Who knows who said it and adds that person to their conversation every time they say that. I'm sure he did get it from E. Stanley Jones as I do remember that he mentioned him a few times as a person that he learned from.
Here is another quote that isn't truly a VPW'ism (this quote is found in Lifelines on p.115): Teaching the Word should be like a woman's dress: long enough to cover the subject and short enough to keep it interesting.
The original quote wasn't refering to the bible or to "the Word" though. The original quote was: A talk (or speech) should be like a woman's dress, long enough to cover the subject - etc. The source of the quote is unknown and there have been variations on it, i.e. Your dresses should be tight enough to show you're a woman and loose enough to show you're a lady. - Edith Head
I don't think VPW intentionally plagarized that saying anymore than Edith Head did. I think it is something he read or heard somewhere and then modified it with the intention to inspire people to move the Word more or to become better ministers. Essentially I think that is what he did with a lot of things he taught - he took things from others, modified them and made improvements on them so they would fit according to the "accuracy of the Word", and then taught them to us. It's sort of sad though that one has to go back and rely on the world for a source of inspiration, but he probably thought by doing so he was getting through to us.
Adam was the only man who, when he said a good thing, knew that nobody had said it before him. —Mark Twain
A Johns Hopkins doctor says that "we do not know why it is that the worriers die sooner than the non-worriers, but that is a fact." But I, who am simple of mind, think I know; we are inwardly constructed, in nerve and tissue and brain cell and soul, for faith and not for fear. God made us that way. Therefore, the need of faith is not something imposed on us dogmatically, but it is written in us intrinsically. We cannot live without it. To live by worry is to live against Reality.
I see that I am inwardly fashioned for faith and not for fear. Fear is not my native land; faith is. I am so made that worry and anxiety are sand in the machinery of life; faith is oil. I live better by faith and confidence than by fear and doubt and anxiety. In anxiety and worry my being is gasping for breath - these are not my native air. But in faith and confidence I breath freely - these are my native air.
Watching "Facing the Giants" movie made by Sherwood Baptist Church.
Fear and overcoming fear is a major theme in the movie.
"...God in His Word says 'fear not' 365 times. . . . Thanks. I needed to hear that."
"...Sounds like your fear's about to clobber your faith. . . . Yeah. Something like that."
IMHO the primary reason why so many of the "cliche's of twi fell so flat is that they were not held with nor spoken with Holy Spirit power.
Many of the words vpw stole were good words, but without the Holy Spirit behind them, they did more harm than good because the powerless-ness of the words were attributed to the principle they addressed.
The principle of "fear not" is vital to our lives, but without the Holy Spirit to give us strength and power to fight the giants in our lives, those giants of fear will overcome us.
(It was the Holy Spirit in David that slew Goliath, not his good rock-slinging ability. The battle, still today, is the Lord's.)
The principle of "fear not" is vital to our lives, but without the Holy Spirit to give us strength and power to fight the giants in our lives, those giants of fear will overcome us.
(It was the Holy Spirit in David that slew Goliath, not his good rock-slinging ability. The battle, still today, is the Lord's.)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood...Great point Kit.
Nandon- Thanks for the quotes, they contain some compelling analogy.
I think fear is our warning system--pay attention, take action, something is wrong. I don't think it is bad. Like anything, some people will spend far too much time in worry or fear, others will ignore fear warnings and do reckless things.m Neither of those is a healthy place IMO.
I'm not a big believer in the concept that the opposite of fear is faith. I think the opposite of fear is more like comfort or joy--things are right.
Most of the time in TWI fear seemed to be in the category of speaking the word. Shyness or 'lack of boldness' are not the same thing as fear, but TWI never distinguished that.
"Fear is sand in the machinery of life" seems to be such a convenient catch-phrase. So compact, and supposedly so well thought through.
But generally, I think it is an effect, not a cause. There may be a statistical correlation between fear and disastrous results in life, but correlation does not necessarily prove causation.
"Fear is sand in the machinery of life" seems to be such a convenient catch-phrase.
Fear is not exactly a pleasant experience. Generally, I think it is an effect, not a cause. There may be a statistical correlation between fear and disastrous results in life, but correlation does not necessarily prove causation.
"Never mistake a slogan for a doctrine." -WordWolf.
twi had/has plenty of cutesy sayings that have been inflated FAR out of all reasonable proportion...
Unreasonable fears, on the other hand, desperately afraid that if you march barely out of step that the devil is gonna cream you, seeing spirits waiting for you under every rock- I think the person needs help beyond what a class on the bible has to offer.
"Never mistake a slogan for a doctrine." -WordWolf.
hmmm you're right. All that bother and no legs or arms to go shopping after becoming rich.
Okay, sand in your bathingsuit is the beginning of a rash.
I think someone already said it here, if not here then it was another thread. TWI was a group of cliches'. Loaded language. One statement constituted a whole doctrine. Only common sense and hesitantcy was often disregarded as fear and common sense or critical thought was squelched by these one liners. I have no problem with borrowing other's sayings and statements, it is how the statements were used to promote TWI doctrine. Like in PFAL VP reads the scripture (was it Psalms?) that the fear of a man bringeth a snare. I always understood that to mean (along with others) that my personal fear of things brought a snare, entrapped me. Later on when I read that scripture along with those devilish marginal notes of the publisher, it was understood that fearing others as in fearing other men in general, brought a snare. That rang more true to me as it was fear of what TWI said, what the leadership said, what anyone would say that kept me goose stepping in tune to TWI. Doing what others wanted because you were afraid of them brings a bigger trap.
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excathedra
NEVER scratch ouch scratch
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dmiller
It figures.
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A la prochaine
Wierwille wouldn't have known an original thought if it bit him in the
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dmiller
But -- but -- if it bit him in the butt, It MUST have been original.
Thus the saying -- "I wish you could have seen it in the ORIGINAL"
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Wanderer
Why am I not surprised!
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Ham
I thought sand was scratch in the catbox of life..
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TheHighWay
Wait a sec... didn't Doc Vic say he was quoting someone on this particular line? I don't remember him ever taking direct credit for this particular saying as he did so many other stolen turns of phrase.
Or, has my brain just gotten old and forgetful?
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WhiteDove
I don't believe he ever did in PFAL , I don't find that odd though I hear people quote sayings all the time without feeling the need to add a disclaimer at the end of their sentence. Case in point If life gives you lemons you....... What ? I bet everyone knows the rest Who knows who said it and adds that person to their conversation every time they say that. I'm sure he did get it from E. Stanley Jones as I do remember that he mentioned him a few times as a person that he learned from.
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What The Hey
Here is another quote that isn't truly a VPW'ism (this quote is found in Lifelines on p.115): Teaching the Word should be like a woman's dress: long enough to cover the subject and short enough to keep it interesting.
The original quote wasn't refering to the bible or to "the Word" though. The original quote was: A talk (or speech) should be like a woman's dress, long enough to cover the subject - etc. The source of the quote is unknown and there have been variations on it, i.e. Your dresses should be tight enough to show you're a woman and loose enough to show you're a lady. - Edith Head
I don't think VPW intentionally plagarized that saying anymore than Edith Head did. I think it is something he read or heard somewhere and then modified it with the intention to inspire people to move the Word more or to become better ministers. Essentially I think that is what he did with a lot of things he taught - he took things from others, modified them and made improvements on them so they would fit according to the "accuracy of the Word", and then taught them to us. It's sort of sad though that one has to go back and rely on the world for a source of inspiration, but he probably thought by doing so he was getting through to us.
Adam was the only man who, when he said a good thing, knew that nobody had said it before him. —Mark Twain
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doojable
Ahhhhhh - but then again, perhaps he had sand in his a$$.
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nandon
A Johns Hopkins doctor says that "we do not know why it is that the worriers die sooner than the non-worriers, but that is a fact." But I, who am simple of mind, think I know; we are inwardly constructed, in nerve and tissue and brain cell and soul, for faith and not for fear. God made us that way. Therefore, the need of faith is not something imposed on us dogmatically, but it is written in us intrinsically. We cannot live without it. To live by worry is to live against Reality.
Eli Stanley Jones (1884 -1973) http://quotes.zaadz.com/10402/a_johns_hopk...i_stanley_jones
I see that I am inwardly fashioned for faith and not for fear. Fear is not my native land; faith is. I am so made that worry and anxiety are sand in the machinery of life; faith is oil. I live better by faith and confidence than by fear and doubt and anxiety. In anxiety and worry my being is gasping for breath - these are not my native air. But in faith and confidence I breath freely - these are my native air.
Eli Stanley Jones (1884 -1973) http://quotes.zaadz.com/10401/i_see_that_i...i_stanley_jones
His Books:
http://www.alibris.com/search/books/author...,%20E%20Stanley
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nandon
an essay
http://wesley.nnu.edu/wesleyan_theology/th...21-25/23-04.htm
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Kit Sober
Watching "Facing the Giants" movie made by Sherwood Baptist Church.
Fear and overcoming fear is a major theme in the movie.
"...God in His Word says 'fear not' 365 times. . . . Thanks. I needed to hear that."
"...Sounds like your fear's about to clobber your faith. . . . Yeah. Something like that."
IMHO the primary reason why so many of the "cliche's of twi fell so flat is that they were not held with nor spoken with Holy Spirit power.
Many of the words vpw stole were good words, but without the Holy Spirit behind them, they did more harm than good because the powerless-ness of the words were attributed to the principle they addressed.
The principle of "fear not" is vital to our lives, but without the Holy Spirit to give us strength and power to fight the giants in our lives, those giants of fear will overcome us.
(It was the Holy Spirit in David that slew Goliath, not his good rock-slinging ability. The battle, still today, is the Lord's.)
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Eyesopen
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood...Great point Kit.
Nandon- Thanks for the quotes, they contain some compelling analogy.
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Bramble
I think fear is our warning system--pay attention, take action, something is wrong. I don't think it is bad. Like anything, some people will spend far too much time in worry or fear, others will ignore fear warnings and do reckless things.m Neither of those is a healthy place IMO.
I'm not a big believer in the concept that the opposite of fear is faith. I think the opposite of fear is more like comfort or joy--things are right.
Most of the time in TWI fear seemed to be in the category of speaking the word. Shyness or 'lack of boldness' are not the same thing as fear, but TWI never distinguished that.
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Ham
"Fear is sand in the machinery of life" seems to be such a convenient catch-phrase. So compact, and supposedly so well thought through.
But generally, I think it is an effect, not a cause. There may be a statistical correlation between fear and disastrous results in life, but correlation does not necessarily prove causation.
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WordWolf
"Never mistake a slogan for a doctrine." -WordWolf.
twi had/has plenty of cutesy sayings that have been inflated FAR out of all reasonable proportion...
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Ham
Unreasonable fears, on the other hand, desperately afraid that if you march barely out of step that the devil is gonna cream you, seeing spirits waiting for you under every rock- I think the person needs help beyond what a class on the bible has to offer.
That says it all..
:)
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Kit Sober
Another great fearful phrase that twi totally missed is "fear God."
Finding affirmation of that healthy fear -- the fear God is what keeps you from doing what God requires even when you don't "want" to.
Fear God keeps you "wanting" to please God above all else.
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FullCircle
Sand in the shell of an oyster turns into a pearl.
Not all irritations are bad.
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Ductape
Unless you are the oyster.......
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Ham
Yeah, that oyster spent weeks in labor for the little rascal. "no big deal"
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FullCircle
hmmm you're right. All that bother and no legs or arms to go shopping after becoming rich.
Okay, sand in your bathingsuit is the beginning of a rash.
I think someone already said it here, if not here then it was another thread. TWI was a group of cliches'. Loaded language. One statement constituted a whole doctrine. Only common sense and hesitantcy was often disregarded as fear and common sense or critical thought was squelched by these one liners. I have no problem with borrowing other's sayings and statements, it is how the statements were used to promote TWI doctrine. Like in PFAL VP reads the scripture (was it Psalms?) that the fear of a man bringeth a snare. I always understood that to mean (along with others) that my personal fear of things brought a snare, entrapped me. Later on when I read that scripture along with those devilish marginal notes of the publisher, it was understood that fearing others as in fearing other men in general, brought a snare. That rang more true to me as it was fear of what TWI said, what the leadership said, what anyone would say that kept me goose stepping in tune to TWI. Doing what others wanted because you were afraid of them brings a bigger trap.
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