Ms. Shroyer on Depression

[oenophile]

absolutely, don't give up hope! treatments are improving all the time. More and more mainstream- type churches are viewing depression as an illness like high blood pressure or diabetes. If you don't respond to the first medicine you try, keep going back! There is alot of new stuff out there for" treatment resistant depression". Do not allow shame or ignorance to stop you.

Thank you very much!

There is also a procedure called vagus nerve stimulation that has proven beneficial to some patients that have been through several antidepressant regimines that have proven unsatisfactory. It involves an implant near the collarbone of a device that stimulates the vagus nerve, which when the procedure is successful, stimulates the production of neurotransmitters (norpranephrine and serotonin) in the brain.

[Lone Wolf McQuade]

Depression is a tough one. Unlike high blood pressure which has limited known causes, depression has such an octopus of tenticles that can grab someone and drag them into it. Everything from bad diet, lack of exercise, to poor choices in life can lead someone there real fast.

I know of people who have taken medication to stop being depressed only to find themselves more depressed for being chemically dependent.

However, to say that nobody who has a battle with depression has spiritual problems wouldn't be right either. I still believe in demonic oppresion and I'm sure demons can cause someone in their thoughts to be sad, so sad that they can't seem to get out.

The Adversary...what a bastard.

Lone Wolf

Edited April 8, 2007 by Lone Wolf McQuade

[Bramble]

There is more to depression than feeling sad. Some people manifest as angry and irritable, when really they are depressed. I myself did not manifest as sad--I was tired and couldn't remember anything. I also had speach halts.

And for every 'the medicine just didn't work and made me worse' story, there are probably a hundred 'medicine worked well' stories. Just like for every 'he wasn't wearing a seatbelt and it saved his life' story you hear, there are probably hundreds who avoided serious injury by using a seatbelt.

Medicine worked well for me, in a month's time I was sleeping, remembering and speaking normally and had a normal energy level. I have very mild side effects, mostly depending on when I take the med and with or without food.

TWI was always about the quick fix--instant healing, instant cast out the spirit now they're whole, instant miracle money from heaven. Too many desparate people have run from one quick fix to another, trying to overcome something that takes actual time and effort to overcome--IMO. How many quick fixes to serious health problems really have worked?

Also, depression may have nothing to do with the choices someone has made. It may be as beyond their control as say, deaths in the family or serious illness in a loved one. Other people may not have 'situational' depression, their's may be present no matter how good their life circumstances are.

Edited April 8, 2007 by Bramble

[mdsnpp]

These are some different but well balanced views on the issue-thanks for the great posts! I wish I had something to offer about VNS treatment -unfortunately I have only read about it. It is not offered in this backwater area. I do know that the teachings of Joyce Meyer( who talks alot about "holy oomph", basically one of the fruits of the spirit, ie self discipline) are what led me out of my quagmire but it did take years, it was very hard and is a work in progress!

[caribousam]

To much technical and not any heart or love in this thread..

hey ca_dreaming, yeah that seems to happen a lot here at GS --> too technical, and bad hearts...a bad combo

that causes the downfall of people and organizations...it's a drag....

[Billy D]

Back to depression...so far no takers to my question if anyone KNOWS of someone who had a devil spirit or demon cast out and is now better and no longer has depression.

I know that it's been a while since this was originally posted; however, I felt that I should chime in.

I suffered from clinical depression and social anxiety disorder for several years in my early-to-mid 20's. I was on medication for a few years and underwent individual and group therapy. In my case, the medications I took made me feel worse than I did before I started to take them. It got so bad that I did a lot of research online and eventually weaned myself off of the meds. I was able to keep my head above water by being open and honest about my struggles and having close friends who helped and encouraged me. All of this happened before I was a Christian.

In May of 2002 I accepted Jesus Christ as my savior and soon after went through one of the most difficult and harrowing experiences of my life. I was able to make it through this time without a return to my past episodes of depression and social anxiety, and I know for a fact that my hope and trust in Jesus Christ was the single most important factor.

Was I possessed? Who knows? I did a decent amount of drugs in college, studied black magic, listened to overtly demonic music - basically opened myself up to a lot of nasty spiritual influence. Was I healed by a single prayer or by a "healer?" No, but I DO believe that my depression could have had a spiritual root and WAS healed by my Lord Jesus Christ. In 5 years I have not struggled with depression, and though I occasionally experience social anxiety, it is very mild and does not negatively affect my life. In fact, most people would be FLOORED to know that I have had such struggles in the past.

I do know firsthand of someone who was healed of drug addiction through intercessory prayer. However, I do not think that all drug addicts should be prayed over and turned loose without treatment, and I ABSOLUTELY do not believe in the "Believing" model of TWI.

The fact is that some cases of depression/mental illness COULD have a spiritual root and could have a spiritual "cure." There are AMPLE examples of miraculous healings (I know of several myself), and yet there are ample examples of people who prayed for years and were never healed. I can't answer why some are healed and some aren't. Science can't even help/heal everyone.

I do agree that it is completely wrong to shame someone or to use their illness against him/her. I agree that it is irresponsible to pray over someone and encourage him/her to "believe" past an illness without also encouraging the person to pursue a medical solution as well. The fact is that it just isn't that black and white.

Hope this benefits the discussion. Thanks!

~BD

[mdsnpp]

To answer your question Waterbuffalo, no I do not know of anyone who was prayed for/had spirits cast out, or in any other form got an instant or miraculaous deliverance from depression. Certainly it was tried many times at the non-twi church I attended for several years. I do believe that God revealed to me that a woman in a Bible Study was planning her own demise that very night, which was confirmed, and she had the pharmacologic ammunition in her purse. The pastor and I confronted her and convince her to go to the hospital. I lost track of her and have no idea how she is doing no(or even if she is still alive). The literature suggests that about 25% of people recover spontaneously, without therapy or meds, but who knows if these individuals were actually depressed. For my part, I believe that God most often delivers us little by little as we apply his principles. In my case, it took years and yes, most of the meds made me feel worse-however that isn't true for everyone. I pray strength for those who are still stuck and urge you not to give up hope.

[Bramble]

It is amazing how individuals react to different things. A friend of mine found out she had a wheat allergy, and as her digestive system cleared up, her depression did too. The wheat just messed up her system.

Wanted to add-- my experience in TWI was that people deemed possessed received little (no)compassion and got the change instantly or leave attitude, plus their entire lives were deeply scrutinized for things they must change in obedience to leadership. Ugly and stressful procedure.

[caribousam]

Thanks, Pipes!

Back to depression...so far no takers to my question if anyone KNOWS of someone who had a devil spirit or demon cast out and is now better and no longer has depression.

Kinda what I thought and I'm really an optimist. Why else would I have believed that junk for so many years?

Yes, I do believe Jesus cast 'em out. Yes, I do believe his followers cast 'em out. Yes, I do believe followers today can cast 'em out. But, no I know anyone who has had 'em cast out and is now better.

So, logically speaking, seems to me the thing to do is to seek medical help so people can GET BETTER...instead of sitting around for 5 more years wondering why they feel depressed all of the time even though they supposedly had some cast out or changed their diet or whatever.

Denial isn't a river in Egypt.....

Hi waterbuffalo,

I have been involved in various teams that have been able to cast out spirits.

And yes I know of someone who had a devil spirit cast out of them and no longer has depression. The depression

in this particular case I would say was caused by a spirit of anger that had a deep hold on this person. And I don't

think that the deep deep depression that that person experienced has returned.

But medicine seems to be the best way to go in some cases, though it is always good if the root of the

problem can be dug up and dealt with. A very difficult task sometimes.

I'd be glad to help you if possible...shoot me an email at serious41us@yahoo.com

Warm regards,

CS

Edited April 11, 2007 by caribousam

[waterbuffalo]

Caribouism, hi. I'm glad to hear you know one person who has had a demon cast out and was better. How long was this person better? Are they still better?

Oh, and what did you want to help me with? :)

Edited April 12, 2007 by waterbuffalo

[caribousam]

Caribouism, hi. I'm glad to hear you know one person who has had a demon cast out and was better. How long was this person better? Are they still better?

Oh, and what did you want to help me with? :)

Hi wb,

I guess I made I mistake - for some reason I was thinking that it was you who was suffering depression,

but after scanning your posts in this topic, there is nothing that points that way (directly or indirectly)...

You seem perfectly well! Hallelujah !

Regards,

CS

[caribousam]

Caribouism, hi. I'm glad to hear you know one person who has had a demon cast out and was better. How long was this person better? Are they still better?

Oh, and what did you want to help me with? :)

hey wb, how are u today ?

This person has been better for some time...a little shaky for a week or so after the experience, but basically

off the depression track for good after that...I talk to that person on a regular basis, and they seem to be

quite well. No more of the deeply rooted anger or depression for about the past 18 years....looks like the healing

was real and from God. I've heard that when God heals it is permanent (in the area healed), though it seems that

this might not always be the case. In this case it seems to be true. I would say that when God heals he takes

care of the root cause, and in general it will be very difficult for those particular bad roots to take residence

again.

-CS

[waterbuffalo]

Caribouism, hi. I'd say 18 years better is a healing. That's what we all wanted in twi...get prayed for and whatever it was would go away permanently.

It's my opinion that a lot of people who say they're casting 'em out aren't because they can't or there isn't one in there, but that's just my opinion.

[caribousam]

Caribouism, hi. I'd say 18 years better is a healing. That's what we all wanted in twi...get prayed for and whatever it was would go away permanently.

It's my opinion that a lot of people who say they're casting 'em out aren't because they can't or there isn't one in there, but that's just my opinion.

Wb,

There are some amazing details of this experience which I have mainly kept to myself to this day...

Yep I have seen some kooky looking people say that they were casting out or had casdt out bad spirirts. I believe strongly that my experience was genuine.

It's nopt something I generally talk about much...a lot of people would think I'm nuts...on the other hand I have seen and experienced God's power in this realm and feel some sense of responsibility to pass along this understanding to those who are seeking

[Edi]

Oh brother = why bother = run for your lives!!!!! Take a d*mn antidepressant and knock the devil spirit on it's a**!!! Or SAM-e (natural antidepressant). People can be so silly sometimes!!!

Oh, and I wanted to say too that CES and everything that I've read for many years about them is enough to depress anyone. It reads like this, "Come to our organization, it's guarenteed to give you depression, confusion, heartache....... and every negative thing".

It seems kinda like it's everything OPPOSITE of love and true manifestation of the spirit and fruit of the spirit listed in scripture. They are NUTS. After everything I've read regarding their organization I think a person would have to be brain dead to want to hook up with CES. You shall know them by their fruit, well

[LornaDoone]

people who are depressed may be possessed."

I really have to interject here.

The "MAY" is obvious and Tonya is correct. A person who is depressed may be possessed or influanced by a devil spirit. They may also have other reasons for depression, death, illness etc. can cause depression.

However; as someone who has ministered to believers for depression, "fear spirit" (in my own child) and migraines DUE TO being involved in a seance, I can tell you that depression CAN BE a devil spirit. So cut a little slack here.

When I ministered to a young girl who worked for me because she was getting migrains, I asked her if anything had changed in her life recently, what was she doing, eating, medications etc. The only thing she sheepishly mentioned was participating in a seance. I ministered to her and within 1/2 an hour the headache was gone and never came back as long as I knew her. Does it say in the Word that a migraine can be a devil spirit? NO but that is exactly what it was.

My daughter of 6 was pacing and frantic, after accessing what was going on and taking some other measures, I simply prayed for the FEAR to be gone and we continued with what we were doing and she stopped immediately pacing, worrying and was delivered.

So please before you are so quick to act "spiritually" against someone, consider it was not you teaching the Word & that having a devil spirit does not have to be a big deal. Let's not give old Chit heart any gratification here. What is the difference between a medical reason or a spiritual reason, the spiritual is easily dealt with. That is NOT to say that all problems are devil spirit possession but they can be.

So I am sorry you have depression, I have been there too. It does not nor did Tonya say YOU were possessed. But what if you were, isn't it great to know you can be delivered so easily.

We also recently had a young girl 16 who had been depressed for almost a year. She got ministered to at the Youth Camp for depression and other things and immediately felt a complete change in herself. She has been fine ever since. So what's the big deal, just get the deliverance you need in whatever way you feel you need it.

Thank God for ministeres who have such insight as Rev. Shroyer. Hope you guys have not thrown out the ministering part of the body. Don't magnify being possessed, as I said I've been there and it's real and deliverance is just a real.

Edited May 22, 2007 by LornaDoone

[nandon]

Did you know:

If you are a human, you could possibly be possessed.

[Ham]

I saw an old National Geographic special once.. it was about some tribe in the Amazon..

actually two tribes. There were two dueling witchdoctors. The one claimed to put "spirits" in the other one..

The other one "proved" he had mastery over them and could expell them by projectile vomiting latex..

[Ham]

No joke..

I thought at the time:

"where have I seen THIS before.."

If you are a human, you could possibly be possessed.

hey, der ministry didn't just limit the possibility to humans. Why, even poor animals could get possessed.

I remember loy's little illustration about a chicken or something..

"Hey neighbor, come on over for chicken dinner tonight. One of the flock got possessed and I had to *take it out*"

This is just TOO strange. I'd like to know if the story is just a product of my imagination.. does anybody else remember this?

[Ham]

Maybe the chicken in suspect started doing a line dance or something. Possessed with the spurt of Swa-tra-tra..

[Ham]

I think I found him.

Moments after possession, moments before the shotgun blast..

Edited January 9, 2008 by Mr. Hammeroni

[Ham]

I wouldn't shoot a possessed chicken. I'd take him on the road.. people might pay real money to watch him..

[T-Bone]

If you shoot a possessed chicken it may come back as a poultrygeist.

[waysider]

If you shoot a possessed chicken it may come back as a poultrygeist.

Now I suppose someone will crack a yoke about eggtoplasm.

[T-Bone]

Now I suppose someone will crack a yoke about eggtoplasm.

Dang - you beat me two to one, Waysider! Good ones!

Thou hast spoken great truths, Ahen and Ahen.

Edited April 16, 2008 by T-Bone