Well, personally I`d have to say that my prayer life has changed dramatically since leaving.
When in twi, and for years after leaving it was mechanical and contrived....a list .
I don`t sit any more, I like talking direct...it feels more personal. I don`t ask for stuff because God seems to anticipate my needs...blessing me with not only things that I would like or need....but the very finest...things that have no practical value whatsoever, but bring great joy to me.....it is amazing.
Mostly my prayers are along the lines of being gratefull and thankfull for what he gives....If I have a specific need....I ask others to pray with/for the situation.......
Mostly I don`t need to ask any more. It is like the companionship with an old dear friend...you know the kind you can sit with and be comfortable not having to say anything at all?
It changed my prayer life for the better because I was raised in a very condemnatory church that didn't present me with a picture of God as a loving Father who had any real interest in me or my needs, but on the other hand made people sick to 'keep them humble', and killed people whenever He felt like it. When I was very young I was so afraid of God that I was afraid to go to sleep at night lest God should decide to kill me in my sleep, and I wouldn't be good enough to go to Heaven. My own father didn't help much either because he was a very cold, critical person. So the teachings of TWI were very liberating for me. It seems to me that prayer is a form of believing (or faith) and that the two are linked i.e. Mark 11:22-26, James 4:2&3. In Mark prayer & believing are also linked to forgiveness; and in James it says 'you have not, because you ask not' and there is no reference to believing at all. All that said there were times in the later days of TWI when I was nervous about praying publicly be cause I felt as if my prayers (and manifestations) were under a microscope, which was later proved to be true. This same attitude has prevailed in some of the offshoots that we have been affiliated with. There have been times when a "leader' saw fit to critique my prayers or manifestations in front of the whole assembled body of believers without coming to me in private first. I think that both prayer (with the understanding and tongues) and believing are necessary in that in order to receive anything from God you have to ask Him for it. I wouldn't be so worried about the form of your prayers and so critical of them, just continue to pray and little by little you'll get better at it, and continue to pray perfectly in tongues. I hope this helped at least a little bit.
Depending on where my relationship was with our Father, it made a huge difference in my prayers. While usually prayer means to make a request, I view prayer as just a time to talk with my Father. Be it a request or just getting things off my heart and talking it over with Him. or sharing with Him what I'm thinking. But when I got into TWI , my relationship vanished, and the Bible took top honors, and vew few "talks" took place on a regular basis. Kind of sad really. Many people stopped talking with their real parents or family not in TWI, and I stopped talking with our Father in heaven.
I saw like you, so many times people would pray at fellowship or a meeting and it would be a recap of the teaching, or an intro into the teaching. But rarely what was from their heart to share with God. And I know I slowly started doing that, not as much but still to some extent, and my prayer life was a sham.. I even recall being reproved because I would repeat certain things in my prayers. You think God cares?!! Give me a break.
Now.. Forget it.. I don't typically pray in public meetings, if I do, it is rare and short but to God.. But in my own private life, I enjoy talking with him all throughout the day. He's our Father, He loves to hear from us no matter what the topic. I got over the fake stuff and in time, I'm sure you will no longer be afraid just to share with Him what's on your heart.
I re-evaluated almost everything in my life after leaving TWI. I was invoved at the age of 19 and stayed for 20 years. I think the biggest thing for me when I left was that I realized my prayers to God while in TWI were telling Him what to do. It never allowed for inspiration. I decided what I thought should happen, and then I told God what needed to happen. Is that crazy or what? What if what I wanted to do wasn't the answer? That kind of prayer life doesn't allow God to work in your life. I changed that really quick. My thought is that prayer in TWI almost became as rote as any Catholic chant. It definitely lacked heart. I'm not saying all without exception. I'm just saying most of my experiences were that way, especially when I was on Staff.
We had fellowship in my Department every day while I was there. Our department coordinator was ordained. He only taught once a month. The rest of us taught and worked a lot of hours. This man went home at 5:00 every night. He lived off grounds. I thought for sure a clergyman would take advantage of teaching at least weekly. I expected more from him. He didn't seem very motivated. The daily morning fellowships seemed another rote and thoughtless experience.
Manifestations at fellowship seemed rote as well. I believe in SIT with interpretation and prophesy, but I don't think TWI had the ticket on the teaching. I think there were very few times in my life in TWI that I felt something was inspirational. In talking to several people who have since left, it seems they weren't very convinced on that part of TWI either.
There is an old thread somewhere with a discussion about SIT w/Int and prophesy. It is amazing to see how many don't agree with how it was operated in TWI.
OK, I'll jump in with my views on prayer. To me, it's communication with God, my Father, and Jesus, my brother. It's family time. I talk to them (pray) like I'm talking to any other member of my family. The main difference from TWI's version of praying is that I don't pray for anything specific for myself, except for my needs to be met as my Father sees best, but that's it...no specifics. All I do is keep a lookout for His solutions. Any prayer regarding me is always done in light of someone elses need.
What I DO pray specifically for is other people. I pray according to my perspective at the time...not from some formula, or by using religious sounding words. Father knows my heart, so expressing my heartfelt desire is the most honest route to take. I don't try to hide my emotions, either. If I'm angry, He hears about it in all it's fury...even if I'm mad at Him! If I'm telling Him how much I love Him, He gets all the mushy details. You see, if I really love my Father, shouldn't I share everything about me with Him? I know, I know, He already knows all that stuff, right? Well, I know my kids love me, but it sure makes me smile big when they say it out loud...it melts my heart! I like to think I put a big smile on Father's face when I do the same...it warms His heart. And you can bet brother Jesus is getting a chuckle out of it, too!
In TWI, prayer was almost a social statement of one's spiritually...who could say the heaviest prayer that would impress everyone else? Or who could show how "tapped in" they were by praying for what they "saw" as a "pressing need" in the ministry or world? How 'bout when we were called on and TOLD to pray for something specfic! All BS, no heart! (Don't tell me God told you to tell me to pray for that!! YOU pray for it!!) We are each individuals and as such, have differing abilities within the Body of Christ. We all see things slightly differently, and Father works within us in the way that's best for us and the rest of the Body....we're not clones like TWI tried to create.
So, I say, pray, in your own words, for whatever YOU think needs to be prayed for, and let the chips fall where they will. Pray for the poor bum on the street, or for the lightbulbs to last for years, or for a cure for cancer....all that matters is that you pray from THE HEART for that which YOU see as needful of prayer. You may be the only one that sees that need...and who's to say that it's not the most important thing to pray for at that moment?
I hope this made sense. I've never tried to put something like this into words...it's rather difficult for me...and sort of a personal thing.
If you're looking for biblical documentation, I don't have it...I'm not a researcher, just a reader. I leave it up to Father to "highlight" what I need to learn. And I've learned a lot here on GS.
I never really liked praying out loud in fellowships because as many have said here, there was an expected manner of prayer. So when I was asked to I would mouth all that was expected and then at the end throw in some stuff that came from the heart. I didn't want to short God or worse mock Him.
In TWI we were as Rascal said taught to use a list, a lift list to be specific. Even went we were SITing. It was very cold and impersonal.
But when I was alone, even if it was just between classes or at work, I would talk to God the way that my earthly father had taught me. My dad always told me that he didn't need a religion to tell him how to talk to his father, so then why did he need one to learn how to talk to his heavenly father? Didn't God have a son too? Doesn't He know how kids act? Of course He does...so why treat him like an idiot, or the First National Bank. Dad used to comment after fellowship that if any of his kids were to talk to him the way that these people talk to their heavenly father he would read then the riot act.
So my fellowship with my heavenly father has always been more of a discussion. I often find myself thanking Him throughout the day for little things that I notice. And I never ask for specific things. I don't remember where I learned it I think it was a VP teaching, "don't ask for money to buy a car, ask for a car". I change it a bit more to "Hey dad, I don't think this car is gonna make it too much longer. I can't fix what's wrong with it so...what do you think...let me know. Thanks"
My problem comes with prayer to Jesus. Between the Catholic Church's excess and TWI's ignoring...I just have a lot of trouble developing that relationship. But I am working on it.
I used to be freaked out about prayer to Jesus. If he is the head of the church and is sitting at the right hand of the Father, why can't we have contact with him? Does it make him God? I just don't think so. It just doesn't make sense to me that the Head of the Church cannot be spoken to until he comes back.
It also seems that prayer was equated with worship in TWI. I believe they are two separate things. That's just my 2 cents though.
The purpose of our lives is to worship God and have a close personal relationship with Our Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ.
The priority of a persons prayer life is to have a "hot" PRIVATE prayer life. One should only pray publicly if they are inspired or led by the Holy Spirit to do so. I so hated having to do tongues with interpretation in meetings when I didnt feel inspired to but was called upon to "bring it forth". Thats because it wasnt right. since I left the Way, I have never been in a prayer meeting where the pastor or leader TOLD someone to pray. A spiritual leader should be spiritual and a leader. The Holy Spirit is in charge.
If one has a good private prayer life, praying and operating tongues, interpretation, etc. will just FLOW.
We praise God for what He has done for us.
We worship God for who He is.
We enter into His presence and enjoy His presence. The Lord wants us to pursue Him in prayer in tongues and with our understanding.
I think there should be a balance of both.
SIT is important because it is spiritual prayer. I enjoy singing in the spirit and with my understanding.
I disagree, Son. The prayer life you describes sounds to much like a religious activity to me...to cut and dried. It may be wonderful to you, and that's fine if you prefer such a relationship, but for me and my house, we will rejoice in the Lord and have a he!! of a lot of fun with Him in the process.
He and I share life, not religion. I view "freedom in Christ" as just that....freedom!
And how long have you known me or spent time or prayed with me to judge that my prayer life is cut and dried or religious. You have know idea who I am or what I am about.
Sooo...I wont qualify myself or explain my life
Maybe your thinking is to linear to have any understanding about what I said.
I know here and there we have someone get on here and almost speak about God's love as if to say we have not experienced it. Or they speak of prayer in a manner that comes across like we are lost and not praying.
But now and then someone arrives who really does love God and really does have power in their lives. Sometimes we (I) wait to see how it is going to go....
I know Son. Listener, he recently prayed for me in a manner I have almost never been prayed for like that. With the exception of the Guy from Greece and a few others, I have never wept continually through a prayer because I was getting delivered while being prayed for.
I was nearly speechless as he spoke of things I never told him; I realized God had heard me and these words were confirmation.
Listener, and anyone who ever felt afraid to pray, or to be prayed for -- Prayer is such a wonderful loving expression to God and being prayed for is a loving expression from God and a fellow believer.
Son of the Master is direct, to the point and does not talk a lot of fluff. But he is real.
And the God he serves is the God I sought to know in PFAL. I have been weeping and praising God for near two weeks.
My friends have had him pray for them and there has been healing and restoration. He has a ministry.
That is not to say that any of you do not pray wonderfully before our God and have a great prayer life -- this is to confirm something very Godly is going on here.
Perhaps his directness did not convey his heart. These are black and white words and sometimes lack the beating heart or sweetness behind them.
If anyone wants to learn about prayer or to be prayed for, I encourage them to contact Son of the Master.
Again, this is not to slam anyone's walk or love for God... Or to demean anybody's prayer life.
Or are you afriad you'll disappoint "leadership" with your prayer?
I hated being assigned a prayer to pray in fellowship, which had become empty and ritualistic anyhow. It was always the same and we just went through the paces with little heart. Warm bodies in the same seats night after night. It was always the same and change or revolution was not welcome. People were beaten down for their ideas, for reading outside the lesson plan for that day or week or month, and for not turning in their schedules or other menial things that mean nothing to God. TWI had become a broken cistern - little content could be held in it, of any. The heart of the ministry was dead and no spiritual CPR could ever bring it back.
There's nothing wrong with praying like a child, if your heart is in it.
Screw what other people think about your prayers - that's between you and God - none of their freakin' business. I learned to pepper my prayers (in twig) with lots of buzzwords....
yaddy yaddy yaddy Present Truth yaddy yaddy yaddy Strong Household yaddy yaddy yaddy Prevailing Word yaddy yaddy yaddy Abundance and Power yaddy yaddy yaddy Truth of this Day and Time yaddy yaddy yaddy Called to Your Word yaddy yaddy yaddy ....
Do you pray out loud privately? First, it feels funny. Then, it feels wonderful. I am so sorry TWI robbed you of such a fundamental gift. The communication with our God. Take that "right" back.... WOW, the veil was ripped in half so we could walk into the holy of holies.
You have the right to speak to God, in private, out loud and where you want. He wants to hear your beautiful expression of your heart, or your needs, you pray Bolshevik - he will love to hear you. And I do know, in TWI's scream fest, they did more damage to people...
We had to be "perfect" according to LCM, or local corps idiots.
Years ago, there was an album VP did (I am not a fan of VP but the example fits here) called All Aboard and he spoke of how this guy prayed a simple prayer and I believe he put oil on his face (correct me if I am wrong) and was healed of cancer.
God is a good God. TWI was or became an insidious way to rob us of God's love. Your lovely voice should be heard.
And how long have you known me or spent time or prayed with me to judge that my prayer life is cut and dried or religious. You have know idea who I am or what I am about.
Sooo...I wont qualify myself or explain my life
Who's judging your prayer life? I simply disagreed with what you wrote because, to me, it sounded a little too somber. My prayer life involves a more celebratory and joy-filled approach...but, no less serious. If I offended you with what I said, I appologize...no offense was intended at all...just my opinion. Apparently your prayer life is wonderful and very effective...and I truly thank God for that. Each of us is a unique individual in His eyes, so our walks will also be unique...I'll bear that in mind, more so, in the future. I guess your description just hit me the wrong way.
As far as knowing you? I was at HQ from 73 thru 86, so who knows?...does it matter?
Maybe your thinking is to linear to have any understanding about what I said.
You apparently have much greater wisdom and understanding than I in these matters.
You are entitled to your opinion
Thank you.
Dot M. - Thank you for your post. I appreciate it. I'm sure Son is a fine person. We just seem to have bumped heads here. I do believe we're on the same team, though.
Listener - I accept your apology and please accept my apology for being short with you.
You are entitled to your opinion
I was just surprised to have someone react to what I shared because I was speaking directly to Bol.. the starter of the thread who was looking forthe insight and experience of others concerning prayer.
I have only been on GSC for a month and am not familiar with the "rules of engagement".
Thanks, Son. Yeah, it took me a while to get the feel of things around here. (still learning, too) Overall, everyone chimes in whenever they feel it appropriate, and gives their (hopefully) respectful opinions on whatever the subject happens to be. Every topic is fair game. And frankly, that's the beauty of GS...as a community, we discuss things that matter to us and get to hear all kinds of viewpoints, and in the ensueing words some might find what they have been seeking...healing, affirmation, love, comraderie, friendship, direction, or even gentle confrontation...or whatever it may be.
We all need something in our lives, and GS is one means of finding it. If nothing else, we learn to be respectful and tolerant of the opinions of others, and respect the fact that each person will follow the path he/she chooses. I have learned many things in my short time here that I would never have exposed myself to otherwise...especially in my TWI days. Things that make me think hard about my own beliefs...or what I thought were my own beliefs. ha, ha! Diggin' the crap out of the corners of one's mind is healthy, in my opinion.
Most folks here are anonymous, some aren't, and some know each other personally, but the one thing we all have in common is that we enjoy meeting here at GS and sharing our thoughts and ideas. That's the greatness of GS, in my opinion. Of course, most of us came here because of TWI and it's effects on us. But once here, I think the enjoyment of each others company makes sticking around very pleasant. This is one great bunch of people!
And by the way, welcome Son of the Master. I hope you enjoy it here. The coffee is strong and the danish is delicious.
Well, anyone who really knows me knows I have been claustrophobic and that fear manifests itself at the dentist more than any other place.
I have gotten out of the chair and ran to the office area, I have pulled crap out of my mouth in a panic -- I have been a Pain in the A.
The panic and inability to breath just grabs me. I pray. But almost a rapid prayer of panic, rather than a request, or a confident claiming of a promise. I am a mess. I have been having more and more panic attacks since my husband’s seizure -- where in a postictle haze -- he came after me.
After Son of the Master prayed for me, he did not say all that I wrote above - nor did he know it, but he prayed for peace and many other things I never told him.
Today, I went to the dentist. They had stuff in my mouth, the needle that makes me feel as though I cannot swallow, and of course, giant man hands in there. For the first time, THE FIRST TIME, I was at peace. I was calm. Something that used to panic me was absent. And I was rejoicing to Jesus where I used to panic rapid pray to keep my sanity.
I know this is a result of the prayer Son of the Master prayed for me. It is the only difference, the holy difference in my life. The miracles keep on coming.
Thank you Jesus!
Yeah Listener, upon first reading it looked like another hard "corp" post. But knowing him helped, and having been prayed for by him had me know that I KNOW... So- to- speak. So, I reread it and saw what he was saying. I am glad you are cool enough to do the same. I think you guys are great and I love how things were discussed. God is good.
Sometimes, I wish the posts were audible so we could hear people.
DOT ---- Glory to God. I am blessed that you had a peaceful day at the dentist. You have the Prince of Peace with you and in you.
When I read your latest sharing, I thought of the different names of Jesus in the Bible and how He takes care of us in so many ways. His names represent what He is to us. His name is Wonderful (still love that song, too)...Mighty Counselor, Our Rock of Salvation, our High Tower, Redeemer, Savior, Immanuel... He is our everything and our Loving Lord. And to think He suffered, died and rose for us. He loves us.
I pray for more and greater victories in your life, Dot.
Isn't that the coolest? Even the dentist was shocked. I was not acting like a crazy person -- he was saying you're okay?
So cool huh?
I also told the dentist about the prayer. He is also hubs dentist and knows of the seizures -- I told him about your prayer and what you saw -- he thinks I should tell the neurologist.
Dentist here comes a calm patient! Woooo Wooo
It was GREAT!!!
I mean nothing like you teaching in India, but certainly awesome for me!
Seems like every time I've been to fellowship, my greatest worry has been being called on to pray.
Praying for the ABS, the BODs, the WC, outreach and the Way Ds, any needs. Then there's manifestations.
In twi, it seemed like the manifestations were priority over praying with understanding, so when I do think I need to pray I instinctively SIT. Prayer of some in meetings seemed to be more like instructions for the rest of us. Sometimes it seemed like prayer is used to glorify the individual praying. I remember (at least one occurrence specifically at a ROA) that some of the teachings in twi seemingly denounced prayer at times, because your supposed to believe.
I realized recently, that I don't like to pray, or at least it still make me nervous. And when I do its quick and crude. Little kids pray better than I do. Its like I'm afraid of God. (And yes I know I need to get past that)
Seeing now that the Law of Believing is more like taking Faith and tying it into a pretzel, I wonder how much of my problem here is a result of twi and how much is not.
I'm asking if anyone has anything to share concerning their prayer life and twi. Did twi affect your prayer life for better or worse or not at all? Has your prayer life changed or not since twi?
bolshevik,
As far as twi goes, it's been about 20 years or so since I was involved with them...but my prayer
life over time has gotten deeper, richer, more fruitful. Prayer in TWI meetings was hard for
me at times. Partly it was due to fear of saying something stupid. If there were Way Corps
Marines around, it made things worse.
But the heart and sould of my prayer life is just between me and God, and Jesus. I think
that that is the way it is supposed to be. Also praying with my wife is pretty powerful.
There are times when I really really enjoy praying for folks as God brings them to mind. It's sort
of like being in the "zone" while praying. Cool stuff.
In general, I find myself praying about all kinds of things all the time, pretty much like the
Bible talks about, though there are dry periods in my life where I just have a hard time
getting myself to pray.
Speaking in tongues, thankfullness, and praise intertwined around my prayer life seem to
make things happen. Also keeping a pure heart.
Well that's my two cents for now. I'll pray that your prayer life gets richer and deeper
I had a W/TC stop mani because a very seasoned grad said." God would move a mountain," during his interpretation...she actualy stopped it...and confronted him during our sacred time....In the past I have had slight panic attacks hit me because of it...I thought it so ungodly of her..but being this was in the nineties....and it got worse.
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rascal
Well, personally I`d have to say that my prayer life has changed dramatically since leaving.
When in twi, and for years after leaving it was mechanical and contrived....a list .
I don`t sit any more, I like talking direct...it feels more personal. I don`t ask for stuff because God seems to anticipate my needs...blessing me with not only things that I would like or need....but the very finest...things that have no practical value whatsoever, but bring great joy to me.....it is amazing.
Mostly my prayers are along the lines of being gratefull and thankfull for what he gives....If I have a specific need....I ask others to pray with/for the situation.......
Mostly I don`t need to ask any more. It is like the companionship with an old dear friend...you know the kind you can sit with and be comfortable not having to say anything at all?
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Jeaniam
It changed my prayer life for the better because I was raised in a very condemnatory church that didn't present me with a picture of God as a loving Father who had any real interest in me or my needs, but on the other hand made people sick to 'keep them humble', and killed people whenever He felt like it. When I was very young I was so afraid of God that I was afraid to go to sleep at night lest God should decide to kill me in my sleep, and I wouldn't be good enough to go to Heaven. My own father didn't help much either because he was a very cold, critical person. So the teachings of TWI were very liberating for me. It seems to me that prayer is a form of believing (or faith) and that the two are linked i.e. Mark 11:22-26, James 4:2&3. In Mark prayer & believing are also linked to forgiveness; and in James it says 'you have not, because you ask not' and there is no reference to believing at all. All that said there were times in the later days of TWI when I was nervous about praying publicly be cause I felt as if my prayers (and manifestations) were under a microscope, which was later proved to be true. This same attitude has prevailed in some of the offshoots that we have been affiliated with. There have been times when a "leader' saw fit to critique my prayers or manifestations in front of the whole assembled body of believers without coming to me in private first. I think that both prayer (with the understanding and tongues) and believing are necessary in that in order to receive anything from God you have to ask Him for it. I wouldn't be so worried about the form of your prayers and so critical of them, just continue to pray and little by little you'll get better at it, and continue to pray perfectly in tongues. I hope this helped at least a little bit.
And what TrustAndObey said works too.
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TrustAndObey
Bolshevik,
Depending on where my relationship was with our Father, it made a huge difference in my prayers. While usually prayer means to make a request, I view prayer as just a time to talk with my Father. Be it a request or just getting things off my heart and talking it over with Him. or sharing with Him what I'm thinking. But when I got into TWI , my relationship vanished, and the Bible took top honors, and vew few "talks" took place on a regular basis. Kind of sad really. Many people stopped talking with their real parents or family not in TWI, and I stopped talking with our Father in heaven.
I saw like you, so many times people would pray at fellowship or a meeting and it would be a recap of the teaching, or an intro into the teaching. But rarely what was from their heart to share with God. And I know I slowly started doing that, not as much but still to some extent, and my prayer life was a sham.. I even recall being reproved because I would repeat certain things in my prayers. You think God cares?!! Give me a break.
Now.. Forget it.. I don't typically pray in public meetings, if I do, it is rare and short but to God.. But in my own private life, I enjoy talking with him all throughout the day. He's our Father, He loves to hear from us no matter what the topic. I got over the fake stuff and in time, I'm sure you will no longer be afraid just to share with Him what's on your heart.
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Nottawayfer
I re-evaluated almost everything in my life after leaving TWI. I was invoved at the age of 19 and stayed for 20 years. I think the biggest thing for me when I left was that I realized my prayers to God while in TWI were telling Him what to do. It never allowed for inspiration. I decided what I thought should happen, and then I told God what needed to happen. Is that crazy or what? What if what I wanted to do wasn't the answer? That kind of prayer life doesn't allow God to work in your life. I changed that really quick. My thought is that prayer in TWI almost became as rote as any Catholic chant. It definitely lacked heart. I'm not saying all without exception. I'm just saying most of my experiences were that way, especially when I was on Staff.
We had fellowship in my Department every day while I was there. Our department coordinator was ordained. He only taught once a month. The rest of us taught and worked a lot of hours. This man went home at 5:00 every night. He lived off grounds. I thought for sure a clergyman would take advantage of teaching at least weekly. I expected more from him. He didn't seem very motivated. The daily morning fellowships seemed another rote and thoughtless experience.
Manifestations at fellowship seemed rote as well. I believe in SIT with interpretation and prophesy, but I don't think TWI had the ticket on the teaching. I think there were very few times in my life in TWI that I felt something was inspirational. In talking to several people who have since left, it seems they weren't very convinced on that part of TWI either.
There is an old thread somewhere with a discussion about SIT w/Int and prophesy. It is amazing to see how many don't agree with how it was operated in TWI.
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Listener
OK, I'll jump in with my views on prayer. To me, it's communication with God, my Father, and Jesus, my brother. It's family time. I talk to them (pray) like I'm talking to any other member of my family. The main difference from TWI's version of praying is that I don't pray for anything specific for myself, except for my needs to be met as my Father sees best, but that's it...no specifics. All I do is keep a lookout for His solutions. Any prayer regarding me is always done in light of someone elses need.
What I DO pray specifically for is other people. I pray according to my perspective at the time...not from some formula, or by using religious sounding words. Father knows my heart, so expressing my heartfelt desire is the most honest route to take. I don't try to hide my emotions, either. If I'm angry, He hears about it in all it's fury...even if I'm mad at Him! If I'm telling Him how much I love Him, He gets all the mushy details. You see, if I really love my Father, shouldn't I share everything about me with Him? I know, I know, He already knows all that stuff, right? Well, I know my kids love me, but it sure makes me smile big when they say it out loud...it melts my heart! I like to think I put a big smile on Father's face when I do the same...it warms His heart. And you can bet brother Jesus is getting a chuckle out of it, too!
In TWI, prayer was almost a social statement of one's spiritually...who could say the heaviest prayer that would impress everyone else? Or who could show how "tapped in" they were by praying for what they "saw" as a "pressing need" in the ministry or world? How 'bout when we were called on and TOLD to pray for something specfic! All BS, no heart! (Don't tell me God told you to tell me to pray for that!! YOU pray for it!!) We are each individuals and as such, have differing abilities within the Body of Christ. We all see things slightly differently, and Father works within us in the way that's best for us and the rest of the Body....we're not clones like TWI tried to create.
So, I say, pray, in your own words, for whatever YOU think needs to be prayed for, and let the chips fall where they will. Pray for the poor bum on the street, or for the lightbulbs to last for years, or for a cure for cancer....all that matters is that you pray from THE HEART for that which YOU see as needful of prayer. You may be the only one that sees that need...and who's to say that it's not the most important thing to pray for at that moment?
I hope this made sense. I've never tried to put something like this into words...it's rather difficult for me...and sort of a personal thing.
If you're looking for biblical documentation, I don't have it...I'm not a researcher, just a reader. I leave it up to Father to "highlight" what I need to learn. And I've learned a lot here on GS.
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Eyesopen
I never really liked praying out loud in fellowships because as many have said here, there was an expected manner of prayer. So when I was asked to I would mouth all that was expected and then at the end throw in some stuff that came from the heart. I didn't want to short God or worse mock Him.
In TWI we were as Rascal said taught to use a list, a lift list to be specific. Even went we were SITing. It was very cold and impersonal.
But when I was alone, even if it was just between classes or at work, I would talk to God the way that my earthly father had taught me. My dad always told me that he didn't need a religion to tell him how to talk to his father, so then why did he need one to learn how to talk to his heavenly father? Didn't God have a son too? Doesn't He know how kids act? Of course He does...so why treat him like an idiot, or the First National Bank. Dad used to comment after fellowship that if any of his kids were to talk to him the way that these people talk to their heavenly father he would read then the riot act.
So my fellowship with my heavenly father has always been more of a discussion. I often find myself thanking Him throughout the day for little things that I notice. And I never ask for specific things. I don't remember where I learned it I think it was a VP teaching, "don't ask for money to buy a car, ask for a car". I change it a bit more to "Hey dad, I don't think this car is gonna make it too much longer. I can't fix what's wrong with it so...what do you think...let me know. Thanks"
My problem comes with prayer to Jesus. Between the Catholic Church's excess and TWI's ignoring...I just have a lot of trouble developing that relationship. But I am working on it.
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Nottawayfer
I used to be freaked out about prayer to Jesus. If he is the head of the church and is sitting at the right hand of the Father, why can't we have contact with him? Does it make him God? I just don't think so. It just doesn't make sense to me that the Head of the Church cannot be spoken to until he comes back.
It also seems that prayer was equated with worship in TWI. I believe they are two separate things. That's just my 2 cents though.
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Son of the Master
The purpose of our lives is to worship God and have a close personal relationship with Our Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ.
The priority of a persons prayer life is to have a "hot" PRIVATE prayer life. One should only pray publicly if they are inspired or led by the Holy Spirit to do so. I so hated having to do tongues with interpretation in meetings when I didnt feel inspired to but was called upon to "bring it forth". Thats because it wasnt right. since I left the Way, I have never been in a prayer meeting where the pastor or leader TOLD someone to pray. A spiritual leader should be spiritual and a leader. The Holy Spirit is in charge.
If one has a good private prayer life, praying and operating tongues, interpretation, etc. will just FLOW.
We praise God for what He has done for us.
We worship God for who He is.
We enter into His presence and enjoy His presence. The Lord wants us to pursue Him in prayer in tongues and with our understanding.
I think there should be a balance of both.
SIT is important because it is spiritual prayer. I enjoy singing in the spirit and with my understanding.
Prayer should be very personal and private.
We are also to pray together as a body.
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Listener
I disagree, Son. The prayer life you describes sounds to much like a religious activity to me...to cut and dried. It may be wonderful to you, and that's fine if you prefer such a relationship, but for me and my house, we will rejoice in the Lord and have a he!! of a lot of fun with Him in the process.
He and I share life, not religion. I view "freedom in Christ" as just that....freedom!
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Son of the Master
And how long have you known me or spent time or prayed with me to judge that my prayer life is cut and dried or religious. You have know idea who I am or what I am about.
Sooo...I wont qualify myself or explain my life
Maybe your thinking is to linear to have any understanding about what I said.
You are entitled to your opinion
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Dot Matrix
Listener
I know here and there we have someone get on here and almost speak about God's love as if to say we have not experienced it. Or they speak of prayer in a manner that comes across like we are lost and not praying.
But now and then someone arrives who really does love God and really does have power in their lives. Sometimes we (I) wait to see how it is going to go....
I know Son. Listener, he recently prayed for me in a manner I have almost never been prayed for like that. With the exception of the Guy from Greece and a few others, I have never wept continually through a prayer because I was getting delivered while being prayed for.
I was nearly speechless as he spoke of things I never told him; I realized God had heard me and these words were confirmation.
Listener, and anyone who ever felt afraid to pray, or to be prayed for -- Prayer is such a wonderful loving expression to God and being prayed for is a loving expression from God and a fellow believer.
Son of the Master is direct, to the point and does not talk a lot of fluff. But he is real.
And the God he serves is the God I sought to know in PFAL. I have been weeping and praising God for near two weeks.
My friends have had him pray for them and there has been healing and restoration. He has a ministry.
That is not to say that any of you do not pray wonderfully before our God and have a great prayer life -- this is to confirm something very Godly is going on here.
Perhaps his directness did not convey his heart. These are black and white words and sometimes lack the beating heart or sweetness behind them.
If anyone wants to learn about prayer or to be prayed for, I encourage them to contact Son of the Master.
Again, this is not to slam anyone's walk or love for God... Or to demean anybody's prayer life.
Peace
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likeaneagle
How beautiful Dot...I always felt prayer and time with God just deepens and it strengthens my relationships more and more...
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ChasUFarley
Are you afraid to pray?
Or are you afriad you'll disappoint "leadership" with your prayer?
I hated being assigned a prayer to pray in fellowship, which had become empty and ritualistic anyhow. It was always the same and we just went through the paces with little heart. Warm bodies in the same seats night after night. It was always the same and change or revolution was not welcome. People were beaten down for their ideas, for reading outside the lesson plan for that day or week or month, and for not turning in their schedules or other menial things that mean nothing to God. TWI had become a broken cistern - little content could be held in it, of any. The heart of the ministry was dead and no spiritual CPR could ever bring it back.
There's nothing wrong with praying like a child, if your heart is in it.
Screw what other people think about your prayers - that's between you and God - none of their freakin' business. I learned to pepper my prayers (in twig) with lots of buzzwords....
yaddy yaddy yaddy Present Truth yaddy yaddy yaddy Strong Household yaddy yaddy yaddy Prevailing Word yaddy yaddy yaddy Abundance and Power yaddy yaddy yaddy Truth of this Day and Time yaddy yaddy yaddy Called to Your Word yaddy yaddy yaddy ....
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Dot Matrix
Bolshevik
Do you pray out loud privately? First, it feels funny. Then, it feels wonderful. I am so sorry TWI robbed you of such a fundamental gift. The communication with our God. Take that "right" back.... WOW, the veil was ripped in half so we could walk into the holy of holies.
You have the right to speak to God, in private, out loud and where you want. He wants to hear your beautiful expression of your heart, or your needs, you pray Bolshevik - he will love to hear you. And I do know, in TWI's scream fest, they did more damage to people...
We had to be "perfect" according to LCM, or local corps idiots.
Years ago, there was an album VP did (I am not a fan of VP but the example fits here) called All Aboard and he spoke of how this guy prayed a simple prayer and I believe he put oil on his face (correct me if I am wrong) and was healed of cancer.
God is a good God. TWI was or became an insidious way to rob us of God's love. Your lovely voice should be heard.
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Listener
Who's judging your prayer life? I simply disagreed with what you wrote because, to me, it sounded a little too somber. My prayer life involves a more celebratory and joy-filled approach...but, no less serious. If I offended you with what I said, I appologize...no offense was intended at all...just my opinion. Apparently your prayer life is wonderful and very effective...and I truly thank God for that. Each of us is a unique individual in His eyes, so our walks will also be unique...I'll bear that in mind, more so, in the future. I guess your description just hit me the wrong way.
As far as knowing you? I was at HQ from 73 thru 86, so who knows?...does it matter?
You apparently have much greater wisdom and understanding than I in these matters.Thank you.
Dot M. - Thank you for your post. I appreciate it. I'm sure Son is a fine person. We just seem to have bumped heads here. I do believe we're on the same team, though.
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Son of the Master
Listener - I accept your apology and please accept my apology for being short with you.
You are entitled to your opinion
I was just surprised to have someone react to what I shared because I was speaking directly to Bol.. the starter of the thread who was looking forthe insight and experience of others concerning prayer.
I have only been on GSC for a month and am not familiar with the "rules of engagement".
My prayer life is anything but somber.
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Listener
Thanks, Son. Yeah, it took me a while to get the feel of things around here. (still learning, too) Overall, everyone chimes in whenever they feel it appropriate, and gives their (hopefully) respectful opinions on whatever the subject happens to be. Every topic is fair game. And frankly, that's the beauty of GS...as a community, we discuss things that matter to us and get to hear all kinds of viewpoints, and in the ensueing words some might find what they have been seeking...healing, affirmation, love, comraderie, friendship, direction, or even gentle confrontation...or whatever it may be.
We all need something in our lives, and GS is one means of finding it. If nothing else, we learn to be respectful and tolerant of the opinions of others, and respect the fact that each person will follow the path he/she chooses. I have learned many things in my short time here that I would never have exposed myself to otherwise...especially in my TWI days. Things that make me think hard about my own beliefs...or what I thought were my own beliefs. ha, ha! Diggin' the crap out of the corners of one's mind is healthy, in my opinion.
Most folks here are anonymous, some aren't, and some know each other personally, but the one thing we all have in common is that we enjoy meeting here at GS and sharing our thoughts and ideas. That's the greatness of GS, in my opinion. Of course, most of us came here because of TWI and it's effects on us. But once here, I think the enjoyment of each others company makes sticking around very pleasant. This is one great bunch of people!
And by the way, welcome Son of the Master. I hope you enjoy it here. The coffee is strong and the danish is delicious.
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Dot Matrix
Like an Eagle (and Son of the Master)
Well, anyone who really knows me knows I have been claustrophobic and that fear manifests itself at the dentist more than any other place.
I have gotten out of the chair and ran to the office area, I have pulled crap out of my mouth in a panic -- I have been a Pain in the A.
The panic and inability to breath just grabs me. I pray. But almost a rapid prayer of panic, rather than a request, or a confident claiming of a promise. I am a mess. I have been having more and more panic attacks since my husband’s seizure -- where in a postictle haze -- he came after me.
After Son of the Master prayed for me, he did not say all that I wrote above - nor did he know it, but he prayed for peace and many other things I never told him.
Today, I went to the dentist. They had stuff in my mouth, the needle that makes me feel as though I cannot swallow, and of course, giant man hands in there. For the first time, THE FIRST TIME, I was at peace. I was calm. Something that used to panic me was absent. And I was rejoicing to Jesus where I used to panic rapid pray to keep my sanity.
I know this is a result of the prayer Son of the Master prayed for me. It is the only difference, the holy difference in my life. The miracles keep on coming.
Thank you Jesus!
Yeah Listener, upon first reading it looked like another hard "corp" post. But knowing him helped, and having been prayed for by him had me know that I KNOW... So- to- speak. So, I reread it and saw what he was saying. I am glad you are cool enough to do the same. I think you guys are great and I love how things were discussed. God is good.
Sometimes, I wish the posts were audible so we could hear people.
(((Listener))) (((Son of the Master)))
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Son of the Master
DOT ---- Glory to God. I am blessed that you had a peaceful day at the dentist. You have the Prince of Peace with you and in you.
When I read your latest sharing, I thought of the different names of Jesus in the Bible and how He takes care of us in so many ways. His names represent what He is to us. His name is Wonderful (still love that song, too)...Mighty Counselor, Our Rock of Salvation, our High Tower, Redeemer, Savior, Immanuel... He is our everything and our Loving Lord. And to think He suffered, died and rose for us. He loves us.
I pray for more and greater victories in your life, Dot.
May your ministry and love reach the nations!
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Dot Matrix
Thanks
Isn't that the coolest? Even the dentist was shocked. I was not acting like a crazy person -- he was saying you're okay?
So cool huh?
I also told the dentist about the prayer. He is also hubs dentist and knows of the seizures -- I told him about your prayer and what you saw -- he thinks I should tell the neurologist.
Dentist here comes a calm patient! Woooo Wooo
It was GREAT!!!
I mean nothing like you teaching in India, but certainly awesome for me!
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Dot Matrix
Sorry for the slight turn off the exact topic!
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caribousam
bolshevik,
As far as twi goes, it's been about 20 years or so since I was involved with them...but my prayer
life over time has gotten deeper, richer, more fruitful. Prayer in TWI meetings was hard for
me at times. Partly it was due to fear of saying something stupid. If there were Way Corps
Marines around, it made things worse.
But the heart and sould of my prayer life is just between me and God, and Jesus. I think
that that is the way it is supposed to be. Also praying with my wife is pretty powerful.
There are times when I really really enjoy praying for folks as God brings them to mind. It's sort
of like being in the "zone" while praying. Cool stuff.
In general, I find myself praying about all kinds of things all the time, pretty much like the
Bible talks about, though there are dry periods in my life where I just have a hard time
getting myself to pray.
Speaking in tongues, thankfullness, and praise intertwined around my prayer life seem to
make things happen. Also keeping a pure heart.
Well that's my two cents for now. I'll pray that your prayer life gets richer and deeper
and more meaningful.
Regards,
CS
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likeaneagle
DOt
so glad you got thru that..
I had a W/TC stop mani because a very seasoned grad said." God would move a mountain," during his interpretation...she actualy stopped it...and confronted him during our sacred time....In the past I have had slight panic attacks hit me because of it...I thought it so ungodly of her..but being this was in the nineties....and it got worse.
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Dot Matrix
Wow Eagle
People act like that and then really believe they are standing for God. Geesh
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