I don't know. On average, 110 people die *every day* in car accidents in the US. As tragic as the bridge collapse is, it's loss of life barely rises above the noise of auto accidents in general.
European television is no better than ours. Which is to say that they run the stories with the most emotional impact to get the greatest market share. Europe has had their share of infrastructure failures over the years as well. High speed train accidents and tunnel fires come to mind right away.
Keep in mind also that most of the bridges in europe were destroyed and rebuilt after WWII. We have many more, older bridges here.
I don't know. On average, 110 people die *every day* in car accidents in the US. As tragic as the bridge collapse is, it's loss of life barely rises above the noise of auto accidents in general.
European television is no better than ours. Which is to say that they run the stories with the most emotional impact to get the greatest market share. Europe has had their share of infrastructure failures over the years as well. High speed train accidents and tunnel fires come to mind right away.
Keep in mind also that most of the bridges in europe were destroyed and rebuilt after WWII. We have many more, older bridges here.
Thanks for the reply. My point isn’t the number of car accidents in the USA or comparing bridges on two continents. The television image of the US as the World’s Premier Superpower & the State of the Union regarding the present infra-structure as outlined by the report, was my point.
Accidents happen for a variety of reasons. However a train crash in Europe and the statistics of “floating” dangers vis a vis major infra-structural problems on the horizon in America are separate issues. There are thousands of century + old bridges all over Europe requiring constant attention, no question. Some are destined for failure, but hopefully not on the scale of one spanning the largest river in America!
I just have a feeling this crash will be a wake up call? <_<
I hope it wakes up the powers-that-be, Bumpy. Every now and then an old underground gas line blows up a house. The Ohio Dept. of Transportation finally blew up an old bridge that crossed the valley where our zoo is located, because big chunks of it had been falling off and injuring people walking through the zoo, but it was still being driven on not long before they took it down.
I can't drive to work without driving over one of those old bridges. If I were Catholic, I'd be hanging on tight to my St. Christopher medal every time. :D (He is the bridge saint, isn't he, or did he get de-sainted?)
I heard on the news that Ohio has the 2nd highest number of bridges in the U.S.A: 42,000!! In the words of the immortal Peter Boyle, holy crap!
The television image of the US as the World’s Premier Superpower & the State of the Union regarding the present infra-structure as outlined by the report, was my point.
Ok, I'm running a little slow today, I'll admit. But for the life of me, I can't figure out what your point is from that statement. Please try to explain it again. I don't want to talk about wakeup calls, but I would like to understand what you're talking about.
Ok, I'm running a little slow today, I'll admit. But for the life of me, I can't figure out what your point is from that statement. Please try to explain it again. I don't want to talk about wakeup calls, but I would like to understand what you're talking about.
No problem, my point is very simple. America is regarded worldwide as the riches, most affluent country on the planet, especially in 3rd world continents like Africa.
When pictures such as this bridge collapsing for unknown reasons are blasted around the planet, it makes people wonder how can this happen...especially on such a huge scale?
It’s becoming obvious to a lot of people everywhere that this “America” may just be an illusion. That the SuperPower is falling apart at the seams. That major structures all across the nation are in a terrible state of disrepair. (That the whole mechanics of how Washington DC functions or doesn’t function, or cannot take action to solve even the most basic problems BEFORE they happen.) Katrina might be another example .
With all the Iraq war expenditure, deficit spending, etc., can the United States even afford to take care of its’ own problems?? That may be another question to ask, along with how America could possibly deal with another 9/11?? <_<
It’s becoming obvious to a lot of people everywhere that this “America” may just be an illusion. That the SuperPower is falling apart at the seams. That major structures all across the nation are in a terrible state of disrepair. (That the whole mechanics of how Washington DC functions or doesn’t function, or cannot take action to solve even the most basic problems BEFORE they happen.) Katrina might be another example .
I read the first post and figured this was your point, but I'm glad Jim asked for clarification.
Is it obvious that America "may" be an illusion, or are you saying that it's obvious that it "is" an illusion? An illusion of what, would be my next question? Of what it is, or how it's perceived. Next question would be what do you think it "is", or perceive it to be?
I think you may be jumping to conclusions, or that "a lot of people everywhere", may be.
I do agree, the roads, bridges here have been under tremendous use and stress over the last 50 years.
I also think most of the world would like to be able to solve problems, basic and advanced before they happen. That's a big "duh", isn't it?
I read the first post and figured this was your point, but I'm glad Jim asked for clarification.
Is it obvious that America "may" be an illusion, or are you saying that it's obvious that it "is" an illusion? An illusion of what, would be my next question? Of what it is, or how it's perceived. Next question would be what do you think it "is", or perceive it to be?
I think you may be jumping to conclusions, or that "a lot of people everywhere", may be.
I do agree, the roads, bridges here have been under tremendous use and stress over the last 50 years.
I also think most of the world would like to be able to solve problems, basic and advanced before they happen. That's a big "duh", isn't it?
Socks! It’s getting late over here after an interesting trading day!
I don’t want to really debate semantics, but people in 3rd world countries and even still some here in Europe, have grown up with the idea of America and it’s stand e.g. against the Soviet Union, Berlin Wall, etc., mighty principles indeed. That “illusion” is now superseded by invasions, faulty intelligence,etc, etc. in a country whose polling image is hitting the floor.
My take on it is like the economy...artificial, in debt, a debtor nation on its’ way down (nafta, border controls, financial issues, etc.) contributing to the problem. But I see it from the outside for a long time now. You may see it differently from where you are? <_<
The big “duh” you mention has to do with preparation in the form of inspections on anything from building codes up-dated for earthquakes, to dykes being prepared for what everyone on the Gulf Coast knew was coming! That was no big surprise, was it?
That bridge sitting in the ol’ Miss. was an accident waiting to happen. Not an illusion!
Before I start, I just want to let you know I'm in an unusually churlish mood today...
No problem, my point is very simple. America is regarded worldwide as the riches, most affluent country on the planet, especially in 3rd world continents like Africa.
Um, agreed, because as far as I can tell, we are.
When pictures such as this bridge collapsing for unknown reasons are blasted around the planet, it makes people wonder how can this happen...especially on such a huge scale?
Now you've lost me, particularly the part about huge scale.
One bridge collapsed. A bridge, BTW that was remarkable in the length of it's unsupported span, it's lack of any structural redundancy, and it's first use of a permanently installed deicer. One bridge. Did someone fsk up? Yup. In fact, several people probably fsked up to lead to the bridge falling down. Is this a huge scale? No, it's one bridge. One big bridge, I'll give you that, but not a big scale. And BTW, the reason will be known, just not today. As my wife and I discussed it last night, there will be tests, reports, blame placed, blame spread around and asses covered. But ultimately, we'll hear about cracks, corrosion and metal failure.
It’s becoming obvious to a lot of people everywhere that this “America” may just be an illusion. That the SuperPower is falling apart at the seams. That major structures all across the nation are in a terrible state of disrepair. (That the whole mechanics of how Washington DC functions or doesn’t function, or cannot take action to solve even the most basic problems BEFORE they happen.) Katrina might be another example .
Falling apart at the seams? I think not. Try visiting Mexico for a week then get back to me.
An illusion? The television you watch is the illusion.
And as far as I'm concerned, the less Washington does, the better. And help me out here, was the bridge maintained by the state or the federal government?
With all the Iraq war expenditure, deficit spending, etc., can the United States even afford to take care of its’ own problems?? That may be another question to ask, along with how America could possibly deal with another 9/11??
That's a different question. One bridge collapsing is hardly a justification of abandoning a war. OTOH, it's a stupid war and it's a war that seems to line the pockets of far too many rich Texans. If you want to talk about getting out of Iraq, that's fine. But yah can't justify doing it because a bridge fell over. Nor can you make any sort of statistical conclusion that the US's infrastructure is on the verge of collapse because one bridge collapsed.
You remind me of the doomsayers that bought generators and stored away food to ride out Y2K.
I'm concerned about the railroads , maybe cause i live in a rail town, yet seriously do you have any idea how much TOXIC waste they carry across our nation everyday?
OK not eew stuff I'm talking about the stuff that makes an atomic bomb look like a fire cracker as far as nuclear waste. tons of it everyday. flying by waiting to fall off the rails that are so sorry ,it is pathetic! we have derailments all the time in new York, like i said i live in a railroad town so we are most aware.
most of it doesn't go on TV. local news only because it is that common and not exciting news till a nuclear waste one falls or a butch of folks get killed not just three or four at a time. . this last one missed homes by inches 17 cars railroad cars full of stuff all over the place the rail line failed just before the bridge , off they tumbled from the bridge on to a four lane highway with cars on it.
no one was hurt but that was the utter grace of God.
so yeah i get concerned and i will say i am thinking about these bridges here as i go we have many of bridges we have a canal system that crosses our entire STATE!
they say the bridges are checked by humans , they have machine that does an ultra sound in some states but it is expensive and many states cant afford them.
i cant think about it to much or i will get paranoid driving i think.
This is just the "flavor of the month" for problems with the country...
Ditto to those who posted about the age of the bridges and how they weren't designed to handle today's traffic.
When it comes down to it... you're on the road, and up comes a big bridge... Do you stop and research if it's safe and THEN cross it... or do you just roll the dice like everone else?
Most likely it's the latter of the two...
Another stat... How MANY bridges do we have in the good ol' US of A? - and ONE collapses...
I agree, this is just one bridge, and hardly a major collapse (except of course to those who were trapped, or those who used that route daily). I believe many road projects are jointly funded with taxes at both the federal and the state level. However I do think it is indicative of a systemic problem where so many in our country are not willing to fund government to adequate levels, state or federal. We often hear the chants of 'big government is the problem". Somehow we must strike up a balance and find a way to make improvements to our bridges, dams, comminity buildings etc. this would mean we as voters must be willing to pay. It also means that our politicians in statehouses and in congress and in the white house must be honest and do what is right for America. We have a long way to go on both those areas.
As someone already alluded in this thread, maintaining bridges built 40 or 50 or 80 years ago is one thing. but if those bridges were designed for the traffic loads of yesteryear, then maintaining them is possibly not the answer. We have more cars, bigger cars and supertrucks now. Bridges need not only maintenance but upgrades or replacement.
Another thing that affects structural components is our environment. Acid rain takes its toll. there is a lot to resolving the issue of failing infrastructure.
. We often hear the chants of 'big government is the problem". Somehow we must strike up a balance and find a way to make improvements to our bridges, dams, comminity buildings etc. this would mean we as voters must be willing to pay. It also means that our politicians in statehouses and in congress and in the white house must be honest and do what is right for America. We have a long way to go on both those areas.
~HAP
It might also mean that Congressmen and Senators don't vote themselves raises before they fix some of this other stuff.
But yah can't justify doing it because a bridge fell over. Nor can you make any sort of statistical conclusion that the US's infrastructure is on the verge of collapse because one bridge collapsed.
You remind me of the doomsayers that bought generators and stored away food to ride out Y2K.
It's not THE ONE BRIDGE "stupid", it's all the infra-structure in the CNBC report given in the link! If you are going to respond please don't cherry pick. My thread wasn't to compare Mexico with the USA either. I am not comparing the gdp of Lichtenstein and LA ! If you don't see the big picture it's because you never will. Too much TV! You're right about that.
Finally, I am not on the doomsayers list. I think the war in Iraq is great! It's good for the market and a few American companies. Cheney is my hero. I think Bush is doing a wonderful job, homeland security couldn't be better, & the markets will turn around Monday.
Ok, here’s the stage. America is takenover & run by illegal gangs, crime is rampant, there are no security controls. Families basically don’t exist, the legal system is a joke, the economy is non-existent (like South Africa, all the ATM’s have been blown up) and the black market rules the street, food shortages are everywhere, hospitals are run by the drug lords & for the sake of discussion, America’s once glorious infra-structure is looking like Mexico. I think you’ve got the idea?
In short WW3 but America is not yet nuked.
Robots and the national guard are being controlled by an unknown “leader” but no one knows who or where he is. Death is everywhere and no one is doing door to door witnessing. Who do you call??
Well, if third worlders actually came to America, they would probably have their faith in our "superior" systems renewed. Compared to most of the world, we are still par excellent. But I'd guess many see US as too big for our britches, and maybe even rejoice a little at our failures. I'm hearing that al qaeda "thanks allah" for this.
Part of the infra structure "problem" is keeping up with ever increasing growth. Farmers keep producing more, making barge traffic busier. We have big houses and use more electricity, so need to move more coal and oil. On the Mississippi a big question is doubling the length of the locks, so the large barges can go through in one piece, instead of having to break apart at every lock and dam.
But then again, too much ease of movement can be bad for local farmers, as it might become too easy to import cheap Brazilian soybeans. So a few billion on improving locks might help the Brazilians most.
This one bridge incident does seem to stir people to consider spending on infrastructure, so I guess that is good. The term "structurally deficient" sounds ominous, but it might be seen as a tribute to how closely we examine our structures. For one thing, any bridge with a load limit is labelled structually deficient, so it is not clear how many that makes up. Many of those are 30 foot bridges on back roads.
The media will hype the story, becasue it is what they do. Politicians will play it up as a reason to raise taxes, and to get people's attention off their corruption. Most infrastructure money is for a good cause, but not always efficiently used. Is "the Big Dig" in Boston really money well spent? Should we spend a half trillion around New Orleans so people can move back below sea level?
My little bridge just got improved, still needs some work. I could use one of those "SWORDS" to prevent home invasion. But I would like it to also pull a planter.
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Jim
I don't know. On average, 110 people die *every day* in car accidents in the US. As tragic as the bridge collapse is, it's loss of life barely rises above the noise of auto accidents in general.
European television is no better than ours. Which is to say that they run the stories with the most emotional impact to get the greatest market share. Europe has had their share of infrastructure failures over the years as well. High speed train accidents and tunnel fires come to mind right away.
Keep in mind also that most of the bridges in europe were destroyed and rebuilt after WWII. We have many more, older bridges here.
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Bumpy
Thanks for the reply. My point isn’t the number of car accidents in the USA or comparing bridges on two continents. The television image of the US as the World’s Premier Superpower & the State of the Union regarding the present infra-structure as outlined by the report, was my point.
Accidents happen for a variety of reasons. However a train crash in Europe and the statistics of “floating” dangers vis a vis major infra-structural problems on the horizon in America are separate issues. There are thousands of century + old bridges all over Europe requiring constant attention, no question. Some are destined for failure, but hopefully not on the scale of one spanning the largest river in America!
I just have a feeling this crash will be a wake up call? <_<
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Linda Z
I hope it wakes up the powers-that-be, Bumpy. Every now and then an old underground gas line blows up a house. The Ohio Dept. of Transportation finally blew up an old bridge that crossed the valley where our zoo is located, because big chunks of it had been falling off and injuring people walking through the zoo, but it was still being driven on not long before they took it down.
I can't drive to work without driving over one of those old bridges. If I were Catholic, I'd be hanging on tight to my St. Christopher medal every time. :D (He is the bridge saint, isn't he, or did he get de-sainted?)
I heard on the news that Ohio has the 2nd highest number of bridges in the U.S.A: 42,000!! In the words of the immortal Peter Boyle, holy crap!
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Jim
Ok, I'm running a little slow today, I'll admit. But for the life of me, I can't figure out what your point is from that statement. Please try to explain it again. I don't want to talk about wakeup calls, but I would like to understand what you're talking about.
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Bumpy
No problem, my point is very simple. America is regarded worldwide as the riches, most affluent country on the planet, especially in 3rd world continents like Africa.
When pictures such as this bridge collapsing for unknown reasons are blasted around the planet, it makes people wonder how can this happen...especially on such a huge scale?
It’s becoming obvious to a lot of people everywhere that this “America” may just be an illusion. That the SuperPower is falling apart at the seams. That major structures all across the nation are in a terrible state of disrepair. (That the whole mechanics of how Washington DC functions or doesn’t function, or cannot take action to solve even the most basic problems BEFORE they happen.) Katrina might be another example .
With all the Iraq war expenditure, deficit spending, etc., can the United States even afford to take care of its’ own problems?? That may be another question to ask, along with how America could possibly deal with another 9/11?? <_<
I hope I am making myself clear?
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socks
I read the first post and figured this was your point, but I'm glad Jim asked for clarification.
Is it obvious that America "may" be an illusion, or are you saying that it's obvious that it "is" an illusion? An illusion of what, would be my next question? Of what it is, or how it's perceived. Next question would be what do you think it "is", or perceive it to be?
I think you may be jumping to conclusions, or that "a lot of people everywhere", may be.
I do agree, the roads, bridges here have been under tremendous use and stress over the last 50 years.
I also think most of the world would like to be able to solve problems, basic and advanced before they happen. That's a big "duh", isn't it?
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Bumpy
Socks! It’s getting late over here after an interesting trading day!
I don’t want to really debate semantics, but people in 3rd world countries and even still some here in Europe, have grown up with the idea of America and it’s stand e.g. against the Soviet Union, Berlin Wall, etc., mighty principles indeed. That “illusion” is now superseded by invasions, faulty intelligence,etc, etc. in a country whose polling image is hitting the floor.
My take on it is like the economy...artificial, in debt, a debtor nation on its’ way down (nafta, border controls, financial issues, etc.) contributing to the problem. But I see it from the outside for a long time now. You may see it differently from where you are? <_<
The big “duh” you mention has to do with preparation in the form of inspections on anything from building codes up-dated for earthquakes, to dykes being prepared for what everyone on the Gulf Coast knew was coming! That was no big surprise, was it?
That bridge sitting in the ol’ Miss. was an accident waiting to happen. Not an illusion!
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excathedra
it's so sad
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GrouchoMarxJr
We, here in America, want not only the gay community to be prepared but for everyone to be prepared.
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Jim
Before I start, I just want to let you know I'm in an unusually churlish mood today...
Um, agreed, because as far as I can tell, we are.Now you've lost me, particularly the part about huge scale.
One bridge collapsed. A bridge, BTW that was remarkable in the length of it's unsupported span, it's lack of any structural redundancy, and it's first use of a permanently installed deicer. One bridge. Did someone fsk up? Yup. In fact, several people probably fsked up to lead to the bridge falling down. Is this a huge scale? No, it's one bridge. One big bridge, I'll give you that, but not a big scale. And BTW, the reason will be known, just not today. As my wife and I discussed it last night, there will be tests, reports, blame placed, blame spread around and asses covered. But ultimately, we'll hear about cracks, corrosion and metal failure.
Falling apart at the seams? I think not. Try visiting Mexico for a week then get back to me.An illusion? The television you watch is the illusion.
And as far as I'm concerned, the less Washington does, the better. And help me out here, was the bridge maintained by the state or the federal government?
That's a different question. One bridge collapsing is hardly a justification of abandoning a war. OTOH, it's a stupid war and it's a war that seems to line the pockets of far too many rich Texans. If you want to talk about getting out of Iraq, that's fine. But yah can't justify doing it because a bridge fell over. Nor can you make any sort of statistical conclusion that the US's infrastructure is on the verge of collapse because one bridge collapsed.
You remind me of the doomsayers that bought generators and stored away food to ride out Y2K.
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nyunknown
Most of the bridges that were built 40 to 50 years ago were not buillt for todays cars we also a larger population, suv's and tractor trailer trucks.
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pond
I'm concerned about the railroads , maybe cause i live in a rail town, yet seriously do you have any idea how much TOXIC waste they carry across our nation everyday?
OK not eew stuff I'm talking about the stuff that makes an atomic bomb look like a fire cracker as far as nuclear waste. tons of it everyday. flying by waiting to fall off the rails that are so sorry ,it is pathetic! we have derailments all the time in new York, like i said i live in a railroad town so we are most aware.
most of it doesn't go on TV. local news only because it is that common and not exciting news till a nuclear waste one falls or a butch of folks get killed not just three or four at a time. . this last one missed homes by inches 17 cars railroad cars full of stuff all over the place the rail line failed just before the bridge , off they tumbled from the bridge on to a four lane highway with cars on it.
no one was hurt but that was the utter grace of God.
so yeah i get concerned and i will say i am thinking about these bridges here as i go we have many of bridges we have a canal system that crosses our entire STATE!
they say the bridges are checked by humans , they have machine that does an ultra sound in some states but it is expensive and many states cant afford them.
i cant think about it to much or i will get paranoid driving i think.
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ChasUFarley
This is just the "flavor of the month" for problems with the country...
Ditto to those who posted about the age of the bridges and how they weren't designed to handle today's traffic.
When it comes down to it... you're on the road, and up comes a big bridge... Do you stop and research if it's safe and THEN cross it... or do you just roll the dice like everone else?
Most likely it's the latter of the two...
Another stat... How MANY bridges do we have in the good ol' US of A? - and ONE collapses...
THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING~
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HAPe4me
I agree, this is just one bridge, and hardly a major collapse (except of course to those who were trapped, or those who used that route daily). I believe many road projects are jointly funded with taxes at both the federal and the state level. However I do think it is indicative of a systemic problem where so many in our country are not willing to fund government to adequate levels, state or federal. We often hear the chants of 'big government is the problem". Somehow we must strike up a balance and find a way to make improvements to our bridges, dams, comminity buildings etc. this would mean we as voters must be willing to pay. It also means that our politicians in statehouses and in congress and in the white house must be honest and do what is right for America. We have a long way to go on both those areas.
As someone already alluded in this thread, maintaining bridges built 40 or 50 or 80 years ago is one thing. but if those bridges were designed for the traffic loads of yesteryear, then maintaining them is possibly not the answer. We have more cars, bigger cars and supertrucks now. Bridges need not only maintenance but upgrades or replacement.
Another thing that affects structural components is our environment. Acid rain takes its toll. there is a lot to resolving the issue of failing infrastructure.
~HAP
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Dot Matrix
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doojable
It might also mean that Congressmen and Senators don't vote themselves raises before they fix some of this other stuff.
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George Aar
Linda,
Re:"He is the bridge saint, isn't he, or did he get de-sainted?"
Wow, where ya been? First off, I think he was the patron saint of travelers. And secondly, yeah, he's been out of a job for years.
It's just plain "Chris" now...
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doojable
But I do hear he freelances...
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dmiller
St. Freelancer????
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Bumpy
It's not THE ONE BRIDGE "stupid", it's all the infra-structure in the CNBC report given in the link! If you are going to respond please don't cherry pick. My thread wasn't to compare Mexico with the USA either. I am not comparing the gdp of Lichtenstein and LA ! If you don't see the big picture it's because you never will. Too much TV! You're right about that.
Finally, I am not on the doomsayers list. I think the war in Iraq is great! It's good for the market and a few American companies. Cheney is my hero. I think Bush is doing a wonderful job, homeland security couldn't be better, & the markets will turn around Monday.
I agree with you completely!
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Bumpy
Ok, here’s the stage. America is takenover & run by illegal gangs, crime is rampant, there are no security controls. Families basically don’t exist, the legal system is a joke, the economy is non-existent (like South Africa, all the ATM’s have been blown up) and the black market rules the street, food shortages are everywhere, hospitals are run by the drug lords & for the sake of discussion, America’s once glorious infra-structure is looking like Mexico. I think you’ve got the idea?
In short WW3 but America is not yet nuked.
Robots and the national guard are being controlled by an unknown “leader” but no one knows who or where he is. Death is everywhere and no one is doing door to door witnessing. Who do you call??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e26Gnc3E0yg
PS, and oh yea, happy birthday Raf, whoever you are?
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ChasUFarley
(psst - there's medication available for you if you're having problems with paranoia...)
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Bumpy
Come on, it's the weekend...have a laugh! :)
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rhino
Well, if third worlders actually came to America, they would probably have their faith in our "superior" systems renewed. Compared to most of the world, we are still par excellent. But I'd guess many see US as too big for our britches, and maybe even rejoice a little at our failures. I'm hearing that al qaeda "thanks allah" for this.
But I'll take our roads over these ...
Part of the infra structure "problem" is keeping up with ever increasing growth. Farmers keep producing more, making barge traffic busier. We have big houses and use more electricity, so need to move more coal and oil. On the Mississippi a big question is doubling the length of the locks, so the large barges can go through in one piece, instead of having to break apart at every lock and dam.
But then again, too much ease of movement can be bad for local farmers, as it might become too easy to import cheap Brazilian soybeans. So a few billion on improving locks might help the Brazilians most.
This one bridge incident does seem to stir people to consider spending on infrastructure, so I guess that is good. The term "structurally deficient" sounds ominous, but it might be seen as a tribute to how closely we examine our structures. For one thing, any bridge with a load limit is labelled structually deficient, so it is not clear how many that makes up. Many of those are 30 foot bridges on back roads.
The media will hype the story, becasue it is what they do. Politicians will play it up as a reason to raise taxes, and to get people's attention off their corruption. Most infrastructure money is for a good cause, but not always efficiently used. Is "the Big Dig" in Boston really money well spent? Should we spend a half trillion around New Orleans so people can move back below sea level?
My little bridge just got improved, still needs some work. I could use one of those "SWORDS" to prevent home invasion. But I would like it to also pull a planter.
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