I still have mixed feelings - I was in an offshoot but the things I read on here directly apply. I was told I had freedom of will but then it seemed I was frowned upon when I utilized it. Even though it was sworn -- I had the freedom. That always confused me. Groups seemed distant and I was told, "there was no excuse, just busy." I hate when people use that term, "busy." It's such a cop out and basically means there is something more important than you and your friendship.
It's great when you find a niche of friends you can just relax with. It's hard to come by as an adult.
In a way, TWI taught the ultimate way to use people.
Now, this may be different for some of you , since I was fairly young when I got it, but I remember talking to people solely because I thought I could get them to a fellowship.
Then they came to twig - they were "babes.'
The they took the class - now they were "just new grads."
Then the "real fun" began
NOW you got to watch their every move and correct them when they were "off." If they balked - more reproof. If they didn't "obey" they were shunned. Not really M&A-ed since that wasn't a policy that I recall (at least by that name.)
"We have no friends when it comes to the Word."
Literal acc to usage:
"All our friends must believe exactly the same as we do."
Which eventually became:
"We have no friends."
I'm much happier knowing where I stand and who my friends are. Most of my friends do not believe like me - and I welcome that. Recently a friend and I had a pretty heated argument. It lasted until I realized that I really didn't care if she believed the same thing I did on the matter. I told her that I thought our friendship was strong enough that it could hold up even if we didn't agree on everything - and she agreed. End of argument.
That allowed each of us to think for ourselves, removed any hidden agendas - or the appearance of such, and gave each of us back what we cherished about the friendship - the right to be totally ourselves.
In general, one doesn't eat with people he's not intimate with. Of course, there are times when that's not true (business functions, TWI functions); but think about it. You go out to eat; whom do you eat with -- strangers? You eat in your work (or school) cafeteria; you sit with the closest associates you have. One real sign of friendship is whom you coose to eat with!
When I was in Fellowlaborers, we ate breakfast every morning in our "houses" with the same 5 other people.
At supper, all 50 of us ate together but we were still seated with our "houses".
You had no choice. It was mandated. It rarely varied unless we had a visitor.
We had to follow strict rules of etiquette about every little detail.
Yes, we ate together, but more often than not, it was drudgery and an exercise in table manner "minutia".
It's not what I would like to think "breaking bread" is really all about.
I'm not sure how that ties in with making friends except that those were situations where we should have been able to hone our socializing skills and instead we were stifled.
There were people I would have liked to have gotten to know better but the choice was limited by legalism.
I've changed my way of making friends that for sure. Dooj hit the nail on the head about using people while we were in TWI. There was always a hidden agenda. Basically that agenda was "I have something you need. If you don't want it, then I'm done with you."
I hang out with people I enjoy. I don't care what their beliefs, sexual orientation, or political associations are. I ike people who can enjoy life without focusing on such drastic discussions and who are not so zealous about those types of things (religion/politics, etc.). I remember awhile back that Plotinus posted something for us to ponder about our own lives. Can we go through life without having to be concerned whether or not our peers or friends are Christian, believe in Jesus, are gay or not, or have the same political agendas?
There's always a time and a place for discussions in life, and they are a necessity or there would be no platform for change in our world. But then it shouldn't affect us so much that we can't enjoy people.
Well, now that you mention it, YES, that IS who I go out to eat with. Sorry...
Unless you mean you actually go up to strangers and invite them to eat with you, I don't think you got my meaning. Sure, if you go by yourself to Burger King and eat there, you will be eating out with strangers; but you probably won't sit at a table with anyone else unless you're at least acquainted with him; and the stronger the bond, the more likely you are to sit with him.
At the birthday party referred to by nottawayfer, she broke bread (or at least cake) with those she cared about.
I remember envying people because they hung out and enjoyed life together. At that time in my life, I was a brainwashed homophobic christian who thought she was valiant for the truth and nothing else. Boy was I stupid. I sure missed out on a lot of fun. I'm sure I will still get rewards when I go to heaven too! What's even more satisfying is that I won't have to push any stupid classes or invite anyone to fellowship.
"Making friends" while in twi was always about furthering the agenda of twi...and that agenda included baiting people to cough up the money for pfal. People were merchandise and we were taught to use them.
Real friends don't use each other...
Since leaving twi 20 years ago, I have learned a few things. I have learned that a true friend has no hidden agenda and is not trying to get something from you...when I find people like that, I walk away....
It seems to me that it's easier to make friends as a child simply because you're in a larger pool of candidates to select from. I lived in the same house from age 1 until graduating high school. On my street, there were 2 kids a grade older than me, 1 kid in my grade, 2 kids 2 grades younger than me. Those were the kids I did the most stuff with (build tree houses, go camping, play sports, etc.) but there were kids older and younger than those as well.
Then mix with that all the kids in school plus new kids to meet in Jr. high and then high school. But it was all determined by decisions my parents made for me; not my own decisions. By the end of high school I was in a clique with 4 other kids. We all got high together and liked pretty much the same music. I stayed close to one of those guys for a few years after high school, but none of the others. I think friendships are determined in large part by where you meet and what you have in common. Today I exchange emails with only 1 of the friends I had in high school. He wasn't one of the friends in the clique, but we had music and drugs in common. He is now Christian, but not TWI and we both have wives and families.
TWI was OK for awhile because I was genuinely into the agenda and so were all my friends from TWI, but after getting married and having kids, I felt that the leadership was more meddlesome. I had different needs now and had to make certain adjustments and they were getting in the way all the time. They didn't have to do that.
But since becoming a spouse and parent, it seems like the pool of friend candidates has shrunk. Not because there aren't other married couples with kids out there, just that I don't have as much time anymore to spend with friends. Full plate, y'know. I think also that in order to have friends you have to learn better how to BE a friend, give and take, learn how to not exploit a friend's sensitive areas, etc. I would like to think that anywhere I go I have something of substance to contribute to any potential friendship, learned by trial and error from previous friendships. That's all I can do really, is approach friendships with that or a similar attitude.
I've made friends from jobs, bowling leagues, and other stuff like that but right now my closest friends are from the fellowship I go to. We do all kinds of things together. Yesterday a group of us helped build a deck for somebody. It was great; we got work done and enjoyed each other's company. We go camping, canoeing, and stuff like that. Great bunch of folks. True, if something happens and the fellowship breaks up, we'll have to find something else, but friends are more disposable today than they have been in past generations, IMO.
I don't know....I never think of friends as disposable. (I'm assuming you mean the relationship and not people in general.)
In my opinion, a relationship that is disposable is an acquaintance. I've always thought that friendship has a sense of commitment to it. There's a greater chance that an argument will be worked out.
I know this is a fast food society, but I refuse to allow that to change how I view friendship.
I understand not liking friends as disposable; bad choice of words, maybe, but you make it sound as though friendship is a commitment at the same level as marriage.
I think of friends as a role people play in our lives, a necessary role, but a replaceable one, too. A spouse? That's technically replaceable, but not like friendship. Friends can violate you to the point where you'd kick them to the curb more easily than a spouse would. Hopefully.
I think that "friends are disposable" attitude comes from the TWI mindset that people are to be used and things are to be loved. People are only worth your time to the extent that you find them "useful" in your life. Real friends enjoy you for who you are and not because they can get you to come to their church, take the next class, because you are "likeminded on the word" or because there's some necessary payoff for breathing the same air as you.
I gave up my "real friends" when I got heavily involved with TWI because they weren't interested in TWI and all its classes and hoops. The people I thought were my friends while involved with TWI weren't real friends - some turned me in for looking up TWI on the internet and all of them quit talking to me when I left TWI. The "real friends" I desserted and shunned in my arrogance took me back with open arms when I left. They said they didn't understand TWI or my involvement but that if I was happy, they were happy for me to be happy.
I've been starting over from scratch myself, Notta. When I first left TWI I felt socially retarded, extremely unsure of myself and cynial of others. It's been fun and easy lately. Just this week-end I met up with some friends at the Winter Park Arts Festival. We set up a picnic area and folks brought wine, cheese, nibbly bits and chairs to listen to Swingerhead for a couple of hours. Some of these friends are former co-workers I've kept in touch with, pre-TWI friends, current co-workers and friends of those friends.
Ain't it grand to meet folks you just enjoy spending time with - regardless of their beliefs, political views or anything else? I cherish my girlfriends I can talk to about anything and not have to worry about them running to leadership to turn me in or judge me or anything else.
I know Mr. Strange. I want to go the Texas BBQ so bad this year, but it is the same weekend as hubby's birthday. He is on call that weekend, and his butthead boss won't cover for him. Otherwise, we would be there. I'm so envious that I can't. Well I could, but I can't fathom leaving my adorable husband at home by himself on his birthday weekend.
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Outfield
That is so great Not a Wayfer,
I still have mixed feelings - I was in an offshoot but the things I read on here directly apply. I was told I had freedom of will but then it seemed I was frowned upon when I utilized it. Even though it was sworn -- I had the freedom. That always confused me. Groups seemed distant and I was told, "there was no excuse, just busy." I hate when people use that term, "busy." It's such a cop out and basically means there is something more important than you and your friendship.
It's great when you find a niche of friends you can just relax with. It's hard to come by as an adult.
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doojable
In a way, TWI taught the ultimate way to use people.
Now, this may be different for some of you , since I was fairly young when I got it, but I remember talking to people solely because I thought I could get them to a fellowship.
Then they came to twig - they were "babes.'
The they took the class - now they were "just new grads."
Then the "real fun" began
NOW you got to watch their every move and correct them when they were "off." If they balked - more reproof. If they didn't "obey" they were shunned. Not really M&A-ed since that wasn't a policy that I recall (at least by that name.)
"We have no friends when it comes to the Word."
Literal acc to usage:
"All our friends must believe exactly the same as we do."
Which eventually became:
"We have no friends."
I'm much happier knowing where I stand and who my friends are. Most of my friends do not believe like me - and I welcome that. Recently a friend and I had a pretty heated argument. It lasted until I realized that I really didn't care if she believed the same thing I did on the matter. I told her that I thought our friendship was strong enough that it could hold up even if we didn't agree on everything - and she agreed. End of argument.
That allowed each of us to think for ourselves, removed any hidden agendas - or the appearance of such, and gave each of us back what we cherished about the friendship - the right to be totally ourselves.
No more lock-stepping here. :)
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GeorgeStGeorge
But it IS about "breaking bread together."
In general, one doesn't eat with people he's not intimate with. Of course, there are times when that's not true (business functions, TWI functions); but think about it. You go out to eat; whom do you eat with -- strangers? You eat in your work (or school) cafeteria; you sit with the closest associates you have. One real sign of friendship is whom you coose to eat with!
George
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George Aar
Well, now that you mention it, YES, that IS who I go out to eat with. Sorry...
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likeaneagle
My friends in fellowship, I thought were friends for life, just like the word I learned is for life...
to bad twi screwed that up...most my friends I knew for 25 yrs...
yes, outfield, It is harder when your adult..hugs!! I think life is regenerating..so to speak.
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waysider
Re; Breaking Bread
I think choice is the operative word here.
When I was in Fellowlaborers, we ate breakfast every morning in our "houses" with the same 5 other people.
At supper, all 50 of us ate together but we were still seated with our "houses".
You had no choice. It was mandated. It rarely varied unless we had a visitor.
We had to follow strict rules of etiquette about every little detail.
Yes, we ate together, but more often than not, it was drudgery and an exercise in table manner "minutia".
It's not what I would like to think "breaking bread" is really all about.
I'm not sure how that ties in with making friends except that those were situations where we should have been able to hone our socializing skills and instead we were stifled.
There were people I would have liked to have gotten to know better but the choice was limited by legalism.
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Nottawayfer
I've changed my way of making friends that for sure. Dooj hit the nail on the head about using people while we were in TWI. There was always a hidden agenda. Basically that agenda was "I have something you need. If you don't want it, then I'm done with you."
I hang out with people I enjoy. I don't care what their beliefs, sexual orientation, or political associations are. I ike people who can enjoy life without focusing on such drastic discussions and who are not so zealous about those types of things (religion/politics, etc.). I remember awhile back that Plotinus posted something for us to ponder about our own lives. Can we go through life without having to be concerned whether or not our peers or friends are Christian, believe in Jesus, are gay or not, or have the same political agendas?
There's always a time and a place for discussions in life, and they are a necessity or there would be no platform for change in our world. But then it shouldn't affect us so much that we can't enjoy people.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Unless you mean you actually go up to strangers and invite them to eat with you, I don't think you got my meaning. Sure, if you go by yourself to Burger King and eat there, you will be eating out with strangers; but you probably won't sit at a table with anyone else unless you're at least acquainted with him; and the stronger the bond, the more likely you are to sit with him.
At the birthday party referred to by nottawayfer, she broke bread (or at least cake) with those she cared about.
Which was my point.
George
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Nottawayfer
I remember envying people because they hung out and enjoyed life together. At that time in my life, I was a brainwashed homophobic christian who thought she was valiant for the truth and nothing else. Boy was I stupid. I sure missed out on a lot of fun. I'm sure I will still get rewards when I go to heaven too! What's even more satisfying is that I won't have to push any stupid classes or invite anyone to fellowship.
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GrouchoMarxJr
"Making friends" while in twi was always about furthering the agenda of twi...and that agenda included baiting people to cough up the money for pfal. People were merchandise and we were taught to use them.
Real friends don't use each other...
Since leaving twi 20 years ago, I have learned a few things. I have learned that a true friend has no hidden agenda and is not trying to get something from you...when I find people like that, I walk away....
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johniam
It seems to me that it's easier to make friends as a child simply because you're in a larger pool of candidates to select from. I lived in the same house from age 1 until graduating high school. On my street, there were 2 kids a grade older than me, 1 kid in my grade, 2 kids 2 grades younger than me. Those were the kids I did the most stuff with (build tree houses, go camping, play sports, etc.) but there were kids older and younger than those as well.
Then mix with that all the kids in school plus new kids to meet in Jr. high and then high school. But it was all determined by decisions my parents made for me; not my own decisions. By the end of high school I was in a clique with 4 other kids. We all got high together and liked pretty much the same music. I stayed close to one of those guys for a few years after high school, but none of the others. I think friendships are determined in large part by where you meet and what you have in common. Today I exchange emails with only 1 of the friends I had in high school. He wasn't one of the friends in the clique, but we had music and drugs in common. He is now Christian, but not TWI and we both have wives and families.
TWI was OK for awhile because I was genuinely into the agenda and so were all my friends from TWI, but after getting married and having kids, I felt that the leadership was more meddlesome. I had different needs now and had to make certain adjustments and they were getting in the way all the time. They didn't have to do that.
But since becoming a spouse and parent, it seems like the pool of friend candidates has shrunk. Not because there aren't other married couples with kids out there, just that I don't have as much time anymore to spend with friends. Full plate, y'know. I think also that in order to have friends you have to learn better how to BE a friend, give and take, learn how to not exploit a friend's sensitive areas, etc. I would like to think that anywhere I go I have something of substance to contribute to any potential friendship, learned by trial and error from previous friendships. That's all I can do really, is approach friendships with that or a similar attitude.
I've made friends from jobs, bowling leagues, and other stuff like that but right now my closest friends are from the fellowship I go to. We do all kinds of things together. Yesterday a group of us helped build a deck for somebody. It was great; we got work done and enjoyed each other's company. We go camping, canoeing, and stuff like that. Great bunch of folks. True, if something happens and the fellowship breaks up, we'll have to find something else, but friends are more disposable today than they have been in past generations, IMO.
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doojable
I don't know....I never think of friends as disposable. (I'm assuming you mean the relationship and not people in general.)
In my opinion, a relationship that is disposable is an acquaintance. I've always thought that friendship has a sense of commitment to it. There's a greater chance that an argument will be worked out.
I know this is a fast food society, but I refuse to allow that to change how I view friendship.
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johniam
I understand not liking friends as disposable; bad choice of words, maybe, but you make it sound as though friendship is a commitment at the same level as marriage.
I think of friends as a role people play in our lives, a necessary role, but a replaceable one, too. A spouse? That's technically replaceable, but not like friendship. Friends can violate you to the point where you'd kick them to the curb more easily than a spouse would. Hopefully.
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Belle
I think that "friends are disposable" attitude comes from the TWI mindset that people are to be used and things are to be loved. People are only worth your time to the extent that you find them "useful" in your life. Real friends enjoy you for who you are and not because they can get you to come to their church, take the next class, because you are "likeminded on the word" or because there's some necessary payoff for breathing the same air as you.
I gave up my "real friends" when I got heavily involved with TWI because they weren't interested in TWI and all its classes and hoops. The people I thought were my friends while involved with TWI weren't real friends - some turned me in for looking up TWI on the internet and all of them quit talking to me when I left TWI. The "real friends" I desserted and shunned in my arrogance took me back with open arms when I left. They said they didn't understand TWI or my involvement but that if I was happy, they were happy for me to be happy.
I've been starting over from scratch myself, Notta. When I first left TWI I felt socially retarded, extremely unsure of myself and cynial of others. It's been fun and easy lately. Just this week-end I met up with some friends at the Winter Park Arts Festival. We set up a picnic area and folks brought wine, cheese, nibbly bits and chairs to listen to Swingerhead for a couple of hours. Some of these friends are former co-workers I've kept in touch with, pre-TWI friends, current co-workers and friends of those friends.
Ain't it grand to meet folks you just enjoy spending time with - regardless of their beliefs, political views or anything else? I cherish my girlfriends I can talk to about anything and not have to worry about them running to leadership to turn me in or judge me or anything else.
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Tom Strange
Good for you Notta!
Ya know... that's a lot like it was at the Texas BBQ last year!
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Nottawayfer
I know Mr. Strange. I want to go the Texas BBQ so bad this year, but it is the same weekend as hubby's birthday. He is on call that weekend, and his butthead boss won't cover for him. Otherwise, we would be there. I'm so envious that I can't. Well I could, but I can't fathom leaving my adorable husband at home by himself on his birthday weekend.
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Tom Strange
aw heck... I'm leaving "she who must be obeyed" at home!
if you come we'll do a phone hook up for him!
we did one last year for myseestorexcathedra...
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