Would you like to weigh in on this discussion........OR.......perhaps, with Mrs. Wierwille's written biography that slaps in the face of vpw's egomanic boastings, it leaves little wiggle room for you???
Seemingly, you steer clear of THESE DISCUSSIONS.........wonder why???
So then your point is, because Dr. Wierwille didn't include the specific details that were in Mrs. Wierwille's book with respect to the India trip, he allegedly was a narcissist?
So then your point is, because Dr. Wierwille didn't include the specific details that were in Mrs. Wierwille's book with respect to the India trip, he allegedly was a narcissist?
Hey, Oldies.......thanks for showing up.....and hopefully, this discussion isn't just some tripe quips or dodging questions by asking questions.
Yes, I used the word "narcisstic"........because I see things like 1) self-interest, 2) excessive self-interest, 3) self-importance and/or 4) self-abilities.
Mrs. Wierwille's account VIVIDLY SHOWS that DR. WILLIAMS held the credentials, the high respect, and high integrity among the Indian nationals. In stark contrast, vpw's pfal-version came across as THE ALL-IMPORTANT MAN OF GOD WHO, MIRACULOUS, WALKED THROUGH OPEN DOORS THAT GOD OPENED.......again, over-exagerated and vague in details.
Classic wierwille...............really.
IMO, it gives CLEAR FACTS AND EVIDENCE (....whitedove loves to have facts and accounts to back things up :) ...) that fills the backdrop of the wierwille "painting." It was ALL about wierwille. He marketed himself as "the great one"......and I bought into it. The "window-dressing" of the wierwille ministry SOLD ME.......I became a follower.
Oldies.....you may go to your grave boasting of wierwille's "dynamic ministry".......I don't know. But I DO KNOW.....that in stepping back and reviewing his "ministry" from several angles, I see an amazing amount of lying and scamming going on for something that has God's name attached to it.
Oldies.....Mrs. Wierwille's account stands in STARK CONTRAST with her husband.
In the reverberating words of vicster.....................SOMEONE has got to be a liar.
"In 1948, vpw was issued a "Doctorate" from Pikes Peak Seminary, an organization lacking
accreditation and formal classes (among other things.)"
"According to his published memorial, Bishop KC Pillai took PFAL in 1954,
and began teaching a class on"Orientalisms of the Bible".
(Pillai also wrote 3 small books: "Light Through an Eastern Window"
and Volumes I and II of "Orientalisms of the Bible.")
According to the memorial in 1985, 1955 was the year they officially chartered
"the Way".
In 1955, JP was born. 2 months later, VPW left JP with family for the next
year or so, and took his wife and eldest son on a tour of the mission fields in India,
on the Evangelical and Reformed Church's dime.(1955-1957) (Per TW:LIL)
He was irritated that he's reminded he is not officially designated as a spokesman
or investigator of theirs. According to his account in TW:LIL,
he there met Bishop KC Pillai, whom he later invited to teach. "
Supposed "Doctorate". 1948.
Tour of India, 1955-1956, or 1955-1957, depending on the source
(TW:LiL or twi's memorial of vpw.)
Mrs. Wierwille's account of Bishop K.C. Pillai
p. 96...."In the summer of 1953 Dr. Wierwille's brother Harry went to Tennessee to visit a Christian children's camp called the 'Tennessee Mountain Mission,' which he was financially supporting. While there, Harry decided one evening to attend a nearby Baptist church in Chattanooga, where an Anglican bishop from India was scheduled to speak. This speaker was Bishop K. C. Pillai. After hearing Bishop Pillai that evening, Harry called Dr. Wierwille and enthusiastically told him of the teaching and asked Dr. Wierwille if he should bring him to Van Wert since "the Bishop," as we called him had a couple of days open before his next engagement. Doctor responded, 'If he's that good, you better bring him here!' Hastily we scheduled a few meetings, and Dr. Wierwille set aside personal time to spend with the Bishop."
p. 96....."After these few summer days in 1953 with Bishop Pillai's giving us our introduction to Eastern culture found in the Bible, we immediately made arrangements to have him return for another visit a couple of months later. Dr. Wierwille described that second, extended visit by saying, 'Bishop and I sat together for six weeks and went from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21, reading every verse in the Word."
This background and timeline of Bishop Pillai in Mrs. W's book -- with Pillai taking PFAL in 1954 -- adds significantly to the Wierwille's itinerary in India. On page 125, Mrs. W writes, "Bishop Pillai had made arrangements with Dr. Williams to be our host in India."
A picture on p. 126 shows Dr. J.S. Williams -- the president of the All-India Federation of National Churches, the pastor of the St. Paul's Hindustani Church in Byculla, Bombay and an avid devotee to Indian history.
So, when this picture of Dr. Wierwille is teaching at St. Paul's Church in Bombay......page 127 of Mrs. W's book.....one should note that Dr. J.S. Williams was the pastor of THAT church.
Isn't there a saying like -- "The devil's in the details" ---- ?? :)
These DETAILS help to take the "mystique" out of wierwille's boastings in pfal.
Kinda like that ...... 6 degrees of separation ..... somebody knows somebody who knows somebody who can open doors for you to teach at their church.
One more tidbit of information.....from Mrs. W's book (p. 131-133)
The Jains convention, an annual event, was a three-day gathering wherein numerous dignitaries, Hindu philosophers and speakers addressed the nearly 4,000 who had assembled.
With Dr. J.S. Williams, the president of the All-India Federation of Churches, standing up front and interpreting -- Wierwille addressed the convention on "The Abundant Life in Jesus Christ." After wierwille spoke, Dr. Williams spoke in Hindi addressing the people.
So, when all the background and details are presented......it's CRYSTAL CLEAR (right? mike? ) that Dr. J.S. Williams was the prima-dignitary who opened these doors for wierwille to speak and teach while in India.
And, let's be CLEAR.........this was a THREE-DAY event with RESPECTED DIGNITARIES TAKING THE STAGE......and wierwille was little more than a little guest speaker whom the Jains' granted BECAUSE OF DR. J.S. WILLIAMS.
Now, Mike........with these details, go back and color in your pfal class coloring book.
More proof that Ol Vicster was a fake, a phony, all show and no substance.
I never trust anyone who says how great they are. In fact in JC talked about those people too didn't he. What a great deception it was that we fell for it.
has anyone else noticed how the vicster has other people address him in his dialog in the class?
like the deal in india.. "that a man o gawd"..
or other dialog, "well, DR Wierwille.."
nooo.. he wouldn't call himself that.. but he'd have Johnny Jumpup do it for him..
Well.......Mrs. W's account of THE INDIA ITINERARY bares "the truth of wierwille's greatness (cough, cough). In terms of "wierwille's lightbearer experience" we see:
...1) Wierwille pawned off himself as some "great one" in pfal.
........1a) Dr. J.S. Williams was THE MAN the indian people respected.
...2) Wierwille boasts of getting "the key to the city" in pfal.
........2a) This "key" was given to wierwille in a private setting, by a non-descript individual.
...3) Wierwille taught at the St. Paul Church in Bombay many times.
........3a) Dr. J.S. Williams was the pastor of THAT church and set it up for wierwille to teach.
...4) Wierwille taught at the annual Jain Convention.
........4a) Dr. J.S. Williams, as the head of the All-India Federation of Churches and wierwille's host, was able to introduce wierwille, interpret for him and ADDRESSED THE JAIN CONVENTION when vpw stepped aside.
...5) Specific results of the India itinerary?
........5a) Were any persuaded to follow "wierwille's teachings on abundant life".....any sign-ups?
........5b) No more mention or correspondence with Dr. J.S. Williams afterwards....no "conversion?" :blink:
........5c) One man, at a train station, lifts his arms and is healed? supposedly
........5d) Wierwille writes a little booklet on "foreign missions".......from his experiences??
Speaking from a Corps Lightbearers' point of view:....Wierwille -- YOU FAILED. <_<
.......You didn't get "A CLASS TOGETHER"
.......And, you had lots more time than TWO WEEKS
.......Should YOU be allowed to stay "corps"......hahaha
.......If you, wierwille, couldn't GET IT DONE.....you WEREN'T who you thought you were.
but.. like one his later followers, he managed to pull the failed lightbearer experience out of the fire by bringing back the head of "Swatratra" on a pole. In his case, he didn't have a tape recorder, so could only bring back a "stowrie" at best..
*comes back out of breath*
*cough, cough, wheeze*
"sorry we coulnd't get a class together folks.. we were too busy battling demons..but they told us we could always come back and try again.."
In his case, he didn't have a tape recorder, so could only bring back a "stowrie" at best..
Ham........yeah, and that "STOWRIE" is a pompous fabrication of LIES.
Looking back......wierwille's experiences and "ministry" was A HOUSE OF CARDS.
And, in the corps "training".......we were held to this lightbearer standard of "getting a class together in two weeks".....OR ELSE.....yeah, threats of kicking people out of the corps program.
HE11'S BELLS.............WIERWILLE was a sham. The India itinerary was little more that a PR-CAMPAIGN to help wierwille get enough of a following to break away from the Van Wert Church. It was all smoke and mirrors......NO FIRE FROM THE LORD.
WHY are there so many things in wierwille's background that FALL TO THE GROUND...in the face of undisputable facts and truths? From the "founding of his ministry" with vesper chimes.....to stealing BG Leonard's class......to the snow-covered gas pumps......to the plagiarism from leonard, stiles, bullinger......AND NOW, WE SEE THAT WIERWILLE FABRICATED THE INDIA ITINERARY WITH EXAGERRATED CLAIMS (LIES).....
With the SLIGHTEST BREEZE OF CONCERN TO VERIFY WIERWILLE'S CLAIMS......HIS HOUSE OF CARDS FOLDS.
Kinda makes me wish I had signed the "green card" with disappearing ink.
Or.......makes me wish that I'd told the Emporia Corps Coordinators (upon returning from Lightbearers)......show me WIERWILLE'S RESULTS FROM HIS INDIA TRIP...i.e. those who "signed up" .......if any.......OTHERWISE STOP YOUR THREATENING MANIPULATION ATTACKS.
Wierwille DEMANDED from corps.....what HE COULD NOT PRODUCE..!!
I wonder.......why wierwille-defenders go SILENT when Mrs. Wierwille's iron-clad perspective surfaces?
As an alleged wierwille defender I would point out that I brought this subject up on the other thread... I have no problem addressing factual information just made up s**t. and internet ramblings.
As an alleged wierwille defender I would point out that I brought this subject up on the other thread... I have no problem addressing factual information just made up s**t. and internet ramblings.
OK, whitedove......I'll sit down and "give you the podium."
I'd REALLY like to hear your responses TO MRS. WIERWILLE'S DETAILED ACCOUNT.
and almost every step along the way he dropped those who had some real experience in life who wouldn't go along. He pretty much abandoned his old congregation. The old "fuddie duddies" who wouldn't blindly follow him down a wide swath of insanity.
Then he lost another group of "fuddie duddies" about 1976 or so with the publication of jcing, in his attempt to put his name in the mogster "hall of fame".
"I don't mean to be splashy or controversial, so I'll just publish the book with big letters and "not" in red.."
What I wrote was all there is to say for the most part.
The key to the city was for the city of Allahabad. I seem to remember that the key.....
Whitedove............THIS THREAD is about wierwille's NARCISSTIC SELF-PROMOTION...
On the thread, FACT OR FICTION.....we discussed "the key" aspect. It was SUCH A MINOR POINT in Mrs. W's book that it was hardly a blip on the radar......a private setting, on a train ride, no presenter's name mentioned, no picture in Mrs. W's book, no highlight reel, no nothing actually.
What THIS THREAD is about........is wierwille's over-the-top, unabashed, SELF-promotion, exaggerated bravado of "him being THE MAN OF GOD who had come to India, etc. How many times does IT NEED TO BE REPEATED???
One more time.......Mrs. Wierwille's book is VASTLY DIFFERENT than vpw's pfal-version of self-bravado, self-serving proclamations of some "great one."
And, I repeat my statement....
OK, whitedove......I'll sit down and "give you the podium."
I'd REALLY like to hear your responses TO MRS. WIERWILLE'S DETAILED ACCOUNT.
Several of my posts on THIS thread......outline and show:
1) Dr. J.S. Williams (and family) were the HOST REPRESENTATIVES for the wierwille during their trip,
2) Dr. J.S. Williams met them at the port of entry (ship) and handled the vast majority of introductions, meetings.
3) Dr. J.S. Williams was the president of the All-India Federation of National Churches.
4) Dr. J.S. Williams was the pastor of the St. Paul's Hindustani Church in Bycutta, Bombay.
5) Dr. J.S. Williams set up speaking engagements for wierwille to speak at THAT church.
6) Dr. J.S. Williams was the prima-dignitary for wierwille to preach at the Jain Convention.
7) Dr. J.S. Williams stood beside wierwille and interpreted at the Jain Convention.
8) Dr. J.S. Williams addressed the people in Hindi after wierwille stepped aside.
9) Dr. J.S. Williams had the CREDIBILITY and CONTACTS to government offices.
10) And, this is Mrs. Wierwille's chronicled description of THIS MAN and HIS IMPORTANCE.
Yet............in pfal, with vic holding the microphone...vpw's MOGNESS is lauded to the high heavens.
Now, is that clear enough???......I just thought, since you spoke up here, you would address Mrs. Wierwille's point of view on the 10 items above AND vpw's bravado in pfal.
WHY IS MRS. WIERWILLE'S ACCOUNTING OF TWI HISTORY so descriptive.....and DIFFERENT.....than vpw's?
And....are Mrs. W's viewpoints disregarded as NOT authoritative?
NOTE: More than likely, many posters here do not have a copy of Mrs. W's book......but with several excerpts on this thread, her all-around Christian demeanor comes through LOUD AND CLEAR......whereas, vicster's narcisstic chest-thumping bravado on the India trip is laced in pfal.
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skyrider
Oldies........
I noticed that you're on the GS boards here.
Would you like to weigh in on this discussion........OR.......perhaps, with Mrs. Wierwille's written biography that slaps in the face of vpw's egomanic boastings, it leaves little wiggle room for you???
Seemingly, you steer clear of THESE DISCUSSIONS.........wonder why???
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Ham
What I'd like to know.. was this little road trip before, or after herr doctor bought his doctorate. Anybody know?
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oldiesman
Skyrider,
So then your point is, because Dr. Wierwille didn't include the specific details that were in Mrs. Wierwille's book with respect to the India trip, he allegedly was a narcissist?
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WordWolf
Actually, his account had an entirely different thrust, one that made HIM, HIM PERSONALLY, a big-shot.
Supposedly the ONLY man who had engaged such a tour with his whole family....
(making one son a "next-door-neighbor", I suppose, since he was NOT on the tour, and vpw
said he took his "WHOLE" family....
Supposedly, the only Christian to be asked to address the Jain Convention...
Supposedly, welcomed everywhere BECAUSE HE WAS UNAFFILIATED and just wanted to teach
the Bible, when actually it was his AFFILIATION he relied on to get ANY invites and respect....
The upshot is, vpw and Mrs W end up giving DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT ACCOUNTS of the same
events. Naturally, you're going to pretend they don't, or claim vpw's was pre-eminent.
Or change the subject and pretend you don't.
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WordWolf
Let's check the timeline.....
"In 1948, vpw was issued a "Doctorate" from Pikes Peak Seminary, an organization lacking
accreditation and formal classes (among other things.)"
"According to his published memorial, Bishop KC Pillai took PFAL in 1954,
and began teaching a class on"Orientalisms of the Bible".
(Pillai also wrote 3 small books: "Light Through an Eastern Window"
and Volumes I and II of "Orientalisms of the Bible.")
According to the memorial in 1985, 1955 was the year they officially chartered
"the Way".
In 1955, JP was born. 2 months later, VPW left JP with family for the next
year or so, and took his wife and eldest son on a tour of the mission fields in India,
on the Evangelical and Reformed Church's dime.(1955-1957) (Per TW:LIL)
He was irritated that he's reminded he is not officially designated as a spokesman
or investigator of theirs. According to his account in TW:LIL,
he there met Bishop KC Pillai, whom he later invited to teach. "
Supposed "Doctorate". 1948.
Tour of India, 1955-1956, or 1955-1957, depending on the source
(TW:LiL or twi's memorial of vpw.)
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skyrider
Hey, Oldies.......thanks for showing up.....and hopefully, this discussion isn't just some tripe quips or dodging questions by asking questions.
Yes, I used the word "narcisstic"........because I see things like 1) self-interest, 2) excessive self-interest, 3) self-importance and/or 4) self-abilities.
Mrs. Wierwille's account VIVIDLY SHOWS that DR. WILLIAMS held the credentials, the high respect, and high integrity among the Indian nationals. In stark contrast, vpw's pfal-version came across as THE ALL-IMPORTANT MAN OF GOD WHO, MIRACULOUS, WALKED THROUGH OPEN DOORS THAT GOD OPENED.......again, over-exagerated and vague in details.
Classic wierwille...............really.
IMO, it gives CLEAR FACTS AND EVIDENCE (....whitedove loves to have facts and accounts to back things up :) ...) that fills the backdrop of the wierwille "painting." It was ALL about wierwille. He marketed himself as "the great one"......and I bought into it. The "window-dressing" of the wierwille ministry SOLD ME.......I became a follower.
Oldies.....you may go to your grave boasting of wierwille's "dynamic ministry".......I don't know. But I DO KNOW.....that in stepping back and reviewing his "ministry" from several angles, I see an amazing amount of lying and scamming going on for something that has God's name attached to it.
Oldies.....Mrs. Wierwille's account stands in STARK CONTRAST with her husband.
In the reverberating words of vicster.....................SOMEONE has got to be a liar.
<_<
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skyrider
Mrs. Wierwille's account of Bishop K.C. Pillai
p. 96...."In the summer of 1953 Dr. Wierwille's brother Harry went to Tennessee to visit a Christian children's camp called the 'Tennessee Mountain Mission,' which he was financially supporting. While there, Harry decided one evening to attend a nearby Baptist church in Chattanooga, where an Anglican bishop from India was scheduled to speak. This speaker was Bishop K. C. Pillai. After hearing Bishop Pillai that evening, Harry called Dr. Wierwille and enthusiastically told him of the teaching and asked Dr. Wierwille if he should bring him to Van Wert since "the Bishop," as we called him had a couple of days open before his next engagement. Doctor responded, 'If he's that good, you better bring him here!' Hastily we scheduled a few meetings, and Dr. Wierwille set aside personal time to spend with the Bishop."
p. 96....."After these few summer days in 1953 with Bishop Pillai's giving us our introduction to Eastern culture found in the Bible, we immediately made arrangements to have him return for another visit a couple of months later. Dr. Wierwille described that second, extended visit by saying, 'Bishop and I sat together for six weeks and went from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21, reading every verse in the Word."
This background and timeline of Bishop Pillai in Mrs. W's book -- with Pillai taking PFAL in 1954 -- adds significantly to the Wierwille's itinerary in India. On page 125, Mrs. W writes, "Bishop Pillai had made arrangements with Dr. Williams to be our host in India."
A picture on p. 126 shows Dr. J.S. Williams -- the president of the All-India Federation of National Churches, the pastor of the St. Paul's Hindustani Church in Byculla, Bombay and an avid devotee to Indian history.
So, when this picture of Dr. Wierwille is teaching at St. Paul's Church in Bombay......page 127 of Mrs. W's book.....one should note that Dr. J.S. Williams was the pastor of THAT church.
Isn't there a saying like -- "The devil's in the details" ---- ?? :)
These DETAILS help to take the "mystique" out of wierwille's boastings in pfal.
Kinda like that ...... 6 degrees of separation ..... somebody knows somebody who knows somebody who can open doors for you to teach at their church.
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waysider
Ya know, ya just gotta wonder what kinda tales Tic coulda told if only dogs could talk.
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skyrider
Speaking of "wonder"....
I wonder.......why Mike hops around on several threads, but AVOIDS THIS ONE?
I wonder.......why Oldies gave one little quip THEN DISAPPEARED?
I wonder.......why wierwille-defenders go SILENT when Mrs. Wierwille's iron-clad perspective surfaces?
WHERE ARE THE MIGHTY CRUSADERS OF WIERWILLE'S MOGNESS --- FIGHTING OFF THOSE WHO CHALLENGE AND ATTACK HIS PFAL STATEMENTS..??
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skyrider
One more tidbit of information.....from Mrs. W's book (p. 131-133)
The Jains convention, an annual event, was a three-day gathering wherein numerous dignitaries, Hindu philosophers and speakers addressed the nearly 4,000 who had assembled.
With Dr. J.S. Williams, the president of the All-India Federation of Churches, standing up front and interpreting -- Wierwille addressed the convention on "The Abundant Life in Jesus Christ." After wierwille spoke, Dr. Williams spoke in Hindi addressing the people.
So, when all the background and details are presented......it's CRYSTAL CLEAR (right? mike?
) that Dr. J.S. Williams was the prima-dignitary who opened these doors for wierwille to speak and teach while in India.
And, let's be CLEAR.........this was a THREE-DAY event with RESPECTED DIGNITARIES TAKING THE STAGE......and wierwille was little more than a little guest speaker whom the Jains' granted BECAUSE OF DR. J.S. WILLIAMS.
Now, Mike........with these details, go back and color in your pfal class coloring book.
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polar bear
Thanks Sky-
More proof that Ol Vicster was a fake, a phony, all show and no substance.
I never trust anyone who says how great they are. In fact in JC talked about those people too didn't he. What a great deception it was that we fell for it.
Oh the great man of God, ad nauseum.
Just another nail in the coffin
Oh, I want one of those coloring books.
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Ham
On top of that..
has anyone else noticed how the vicster has other people address him in his dialog in the class?
like the deal in india.. "that a man o gawd"..
or other dialog, "well, DR Wierwille.."
nooo.. he wouldn't call himself that.. but he'd have Johnny Jumpup do it for him..
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skyrider
Well.......Mrs. W's account of THE INDIA ITINERARY bares "the truth of wierwille's greatness (cough, cough). In terms of "wierwille's lightbearer experience" we see:
...1) Wierwille pawned off himself as some "great one" in pfal.
........1a) Dr. J.S. Williams was THE MAN the indian people respected.
...2) Wierwille boasts of getting "the key to the city" in pfal.
........2a) This "key" was given to wierwille in a private setting, by a non-descript individual.
...3) Wierwille taught at the St. Paul Church in Bombay many times.
........3a) Dr. J.S. Williams was the pastor of THAT church and set it up for wierwille to teach.
...4) Wierwille taught at the annual Jain Convention.
........4a) Dr. J.S. Williams, as the head of the All-India Federation of Churches and wierwille's host, was able to introduce wierwille, interpret for him and ADDRESSED THE JAIN CONVENTION when vpw stepped aside.
...5) Specific results of the India itinerary?
........5a) Were any persuaded to follow "wierwille's teachings on abundant life".....any sign-ups?
........5b) No more mention or correspondence with Dr. J.S. Williams afterwards....no "conversion?" :blink:
........5c) One man, at a train station, lifts his arms and is healed? supposedly
........5d) Wierwille writes a little booklet on "foreign missions".......from his experiences??
Speaking from a Corps Lightbearers' point of view:....Wierwille -- YOU FAILED. <_<
.......You didn't get "A CLASS TOGETHER"
.......And, you had lots more time than TWO WEEKS
.......Should YOU be allowed to stay "corps"......hahaha
.......If you, wierwille, couldn't GET IT DONE.....you WEREN'T who you thought you were.
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Ham
but.. like one his later followers, he managed to pull the failed lightbearer experience out of the fire by bringing back the head of "Swatratra" on a pole. In his case, he didn't have a tape recorder, so could only bring back a "stowrie" at best..
*comes back out of breath*
*cough, cough, wheeze*
"sorry we coulnd't get a class together folks.. we were too busy battling demons..but they told us we could always come back and try again.."
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skyrider
Ham........yeah, and that "STOWRIE" is a pompous fabrication of LIES.
Looking back......wierwille's experiences and "ministry" was A HOUSE OF CARDS.
And, in the corps "training".......we were held to this lightbearer standard of "getting a class together in two weeks".....OR ELSE.....yeah, threats of kicking people out of the corps program.
HE11'S BELLS.............WIERWILLE was a sham. The India itinerary was little more that a PR-CAMPAIGN to help wierwille get enough of a following to break away from the Van Wert Church. It was all smoke and mirrors......NO FIRE FROM THE LORD.
WHY are there so many things in wierwille's background that FALL TO THE GROUND...in the face of undisputable facts and truths? From the "founding of his ministry" with vesper chimes.....to stealing BG Leonard's class......to the snow-covered gas pumps......to the plagiarism from leonard, stiles, bullinger......AND NOW, WE SEE THAT WIERWILLE FABRICATED THE INDIA ITINERARY WITH EXAGERRATED CLAIMS (LIES).....
With the SLIGHTEST BREEZE OF CONCERN TO VERIFY WIERWILLE'S CLAIMS......HIS HOUSE OF CARDS FOLDS.
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waysider
Kinda makes me wish I had signed the "green card" with disappearing ink.
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skyrider
Or.......makes me wish that I'd told the Emporia Corps Coordinators (upon returning from Lightbearers)......show me WIERWILLE'S RESULTS FROM HIS INDIA TRIP...i.e. those who "signed up" .......if any.......OTHERWISE STOP YOUR THREATENING MANIPULATION ATTACKS.
Wierwille DEMANDED from corps.....what HE COULD NOT PRODUCE..!!
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WhiteDove
As an alleged wierwille defender I would point out that I brought this subject up on the other thread... I have no problem addressing factual information just made up s**t. and internet ramblings.
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skyrider
OK, whitedove......I'll sit down and "give you the podium."
I'd REALLY like to hear your responses TO MRS. WIERWILLE'S DETAILED ACCOUNT.
:)
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Ham
and almost every step along the way he dropped those who had some real experience in life who wouldn't go along. He pretty much abandoned his old congregation. The old "fuddie duddies" who wouldn't blindly follow him down a wide swath of insanity.
Then he lost another group of "fuddie duddies" about 1976 or so with the publication of jcing, in his attempt to put his name in the mogster "hall of fame".
"I don't mean to be splashy or controversial, so I'll just publish the book with big letters and "not" in red.."
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WhiteDove
What I wrote was all there is to say for the most part.
The key to the city was for the city of Allahabad. I seem to remember that the key was displayed at the Sidney House at one time. Anyone else remember that? I'd tend to believe the record, given that he was the guest of many receptions during the stay. The key was for one city not all of India and was given to him by a member of the central government who was from Allahabad. Another thing to consider is something that Way History fails to mention often which was that VP went to India as a representative of The American Committee for the All-India Federation of National Churches They sponsored his tour which is why he was given the entrée and attention he was given. Dr. J. S. Williams was their guide he was the head of the Federation of National Churches. As such I can see why he might have been presented a key. While he did teach while there on occasion the key would have been most likely presented as a matter of protocol under the representative title not the Way International. None of the news clippings I have seen mention The Way in fact, only the PAIRS organization. It was most likely arranged long before anyone heard him speak or teach, so I doubt it had anything to do with his preaching.
Edited to point out host as mentioned was a better descripion for what he did rather than guide.
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skyrider
Whitedove............THIS THREAD is about wierwille's NARCISSTIC SELF-PROMOTION...
On the thread, FACT OR FICTION.....we discussed "the key" aspect. It was SUCH A MINOR POINT in Mrs. W's book that it was hardly a blip on the radar......a private setting, on a train ride, no presenter's name mentioned, no picture in Mrs. W's book, no highlight reel, no nothing actually.
What THIS THREAD is about........is wierwille's over-the-top, unabashed, SELF-promotion, exaggerated bravado of "him being THE MAN OF GOD who had come to India, etc. How many times does IT NEED TO BE REPEATED???
One more time.......Mrs. Wierwille's book is VASTLY DIFFERENT than vpw's pfal-version of self-bravado, self-serving proclamations of some "great one."
And, I repeat my statement....
Several of my posts on THIS thread......outline and show:
1) Dr. J.S. Williams (and family) were the HOST REPRESENTATIVES for the wierwille during their trip,
2) Dr. J.S. Williams met them at the port of entry (ship) and handled the vast majority of introductions, meetings.
3) Dr. J.S. Williams was the president of the All-India Federation of National Churches.
4) Dr. J.S. Williams was the pastor of the St. Paul's Hindustani Church in Bycutta, Bombay.
5) Dr. J.S. Williams set up speaking engagements for wierwille to speak at THAT church.
6) Dr. J.S. Williams was the prima-dignitary for wierwille to preach at the Jain Convention.
7) Dr. J.S. Williams stood beside wierwille and interpreted at the Jain Convention.
8) Dr. J.S. Williams addressed the people in Hindi after wierwille stepped aside.
9) Dr. J.S. Williams had the CREDIBILITY and CONTACTS to government offices.
10) And, this is Mrs. Wierwille's chronicled description of THIS MAN and HIS IMPORTANCE.
Yet............in pfal, with vic holding the microphone...vpw's MOGNESS is lauded to the high heavens.
Now, is that clear enough???......I just thought, since you spoke up here, you would address Mrs. Wierwille's point of view on the 10 items above AND vpw's bravado in pfal.
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WhiteDove
Had you read what I wrote past the first sentence you would have found
The key to the city was for the city of Allahabad. I seem to remember that the key was displayed at the Sidney House at one time. Anyone else remember that? I'd tend to believe the record, given that he was the guest of many receptions during the stay. The key was for one city not all of India and was given to him by a member of the central government who was from Allahabad. Another thing to consider is something that Way History fails to mention often which was that VP went to India as a representative of The American Committee for the All-India Federation of National Churches They sponsored his tour which is why he was given the entrée and attention he was given. Dr. J. S. Williams was their guide he was the head of the Federation of National Churches. As such I can see why he might have been presented a key. While he did teach while there on occasion the key would have been most likely presented as a matter of protocol under the representative title not the Way International. None of the news clippings I have seen mention The Way in fact, only the PAIRS organization. It was most likely arranged long before anyone heard him speak or teach, so I doubt it had anything to do with his preaching.
Edited to point out host as mentioned was a better descripion for what he did rather than guide.
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skyrider
Okay.....I'll try asking in another manner.
All posters welcome........here goes:
WHY IS MRS. WIERWILLE'S ACCOUNTING OF TWI HISTORY so descriptive.....and DIFFERENT.....than vpw's?
And....are Mrs. W's viewpoints disregarded as NOT authoritative?
NOTE: More than likely, many posters here do not have a copy of Mrs. W's book......but with several excerpts on this thread, her all-around Christian demeanor comes through LOUD AND CLEAR......whereas, vicster's narcisstic chest-thumping bravado on the India trip is laced in pfal.
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