'cause this kind independent thinking and acting on your own doesn't even resemble the stuff that went on in the "ministry" I was a part of. I think you would have been shown the door rather quickly in The Way that I was in.
Or is that what happened?
Did they give you the boot for non-compliance?
Go ahead, you can tell me. I won't repeat it to another living soul.
(It'll be our little "lockbox" kinda thing.)
]
Yeah I was from 73 - 88 I left on my terms although I suspect had I not been smart enough to have planned I would have eventually been given the boot for non compliance with their letter of demand.
Confident in ones walk with God?? Those of us that joined at 16,17, 18 ... for many of us...TWI teaching is what defined that walk. TWI teaching is the only thing many of us knew about faith and practice.
How could we have known any better than what we learned from the man of God for our day and time, and the ministry that brought us the greatness of God`s word??
Why on earth would we doubt the people who claimed to speak for God? Why would we not do everything within our power to have access to the people who were teaching the truth like it hadn`t been known since the first century?
You complied or you were thrown outside the hedge of God`s protection and denied access to the hous hold of God`s elect.
Damned right, if we had been taught honestly, we might have stood a chance of having confidence in our walk and stand with God.\
For you Dove, to claim that it was otherwise, given your limited exposure to anything outside your tiny little geographic location, is absurd.
God called David to be King. God did good things through David. David steals Uriah's wife. Porks her. Gets her knocked up, and through complicity, tries to get Uriah to spend the night with his wife to get the pressure off of her being pregnant. the deception doesn't work. Uriah too honorable of a man. David murders him. Now how in the hell could anything good ever have been part of David's life? I don't know. He was a wife stealin murderin son of a biotch. These things I'll figure out when the Prince of peace comes back...
without Jesus, twi was an organization of empty rituals and man-made doctrine...
Brilliant Jeno!
Great point Geisha!
Jonny, I think that David behaved as a man that had no spirit....ie it wasn`t available according to twi doctrine. I think wierwille did the same....Thing is...wierwille claimed to be born again, a man of the spirit....scriptures say that these guys live a higher standard.
Wierwille hasn`t got any inheritance in the kingdom of heaven ... according to galatians.
I think judging by the evidence of the fruit in his life...the sucker didn`t have a clue about spiritual matters.
I will no longer argue with you on this. I enjoyed our brief honeymoon, and honestly girl, it was very nice to be on good terms with you. Really. But I don't want to argue with you anymore. I am sure that you are a sweet woman, and I know that your fire has to do with loving and helping others. But we do, and still have, an opposing viewpoint concerning TWI, and I am weary of arguing the point. Perhaps we can simply agree to disagree. I know that my opinion here is different than the "mission" of the GSCafe, and so, because my opinion isn't really all that welcome, I will bow out. I love you muchos en Christo mi hermana!
En Christo,
Juanny Lingo
P.S.
I am editing this to say to you: Good spring bass and pike fishing! Once, I caught two 28 inch Northerns, and hooked but did not land a Northern that was at least 40 inches long all in one day! Wow! Please remember, those Northern Pike are in fact REAL FISH!
Confident in ones walk with God?? Those of us that joined at 16,17, 18 ... for many of us...TWI teaching is what defined that walk. TWI teaching is the only thing many of us knew about faith and practice.
How could we have known any better than what we learned from the man of God for our day and time, and the ministry that brought us the greatness of God`s word??
Why on earth would we doubt the people who claimed to speak for God? Why would we not do everything within our power to have access to the people who were teaching the truth like it hadn`t been known since the first century?
You complied or you were thrown outside the hedge of God`s protection and denied access to the hous hold of God`s elect.
Damned right, if we had been taught honestly, we might have stood a chance of having confidence in our walk and stand with God.\
For you Dove, to claim that it was otherwise, given your limited exposure to anything outside your tiny little geographic location, is absurd.
Jonny brother, you have my respect, and I do not want to argue with you either. I appreciate you putting on the brakes and resisting the urge to smack this mouthy, oh so irritating woman down :)
Sadly, no fishing for me. The pasture that I had arranged for the horses fell through at the last miniute and I will be at home fencing in Tenn. instead of enjoying fishing and festivities in Michigan over the 4th.
Maybe the ministry had the right idea about the *no serious pets* policy at that...lol
Maybe we will jump in the river with the kayaks instead.
Sadly, no fishing for me. The pasture that I had arranged for the horses fell through at the last minute and I will be at home fencing in Tenn. instead of enjoying fishing and festivities in Michigan over the 4th.
Maybe the ministry had the right idea about the *no serious pets* policy at that...lol
Maybe we will jump in the river with the kayaks instead.
So, "Home" is in Tennessee? I thought Home for you was in Michigan. But I guess I missed that point. And, you have horses? Cool. I love horses. My wife was a serious "horse girl" when she was a kid and used to ride her horse to school in Oklahoma. After school, they'd all mount up and say; "Let's ride!" and go tearing off across the football field and onto the prairie. What a life! If we wanted to, we could easily move back down there, and have access to her wealthy uncle's 79,000 acre ranch, and lease any small amount that we wanted. We have often thought of raising corn and milo, not harvesting it but rather knocking it down making habitat for pheasant and quail so that we could then bring bird hunters out for a fee and let them shoot birds. We would also raise our favorite dogs the German Wirehaired Pointer,
train them and use them with the clients on the hunts. My wife is named Shannon, and we would call it "Shotgun Shannon's Pheasant Ranch". I already call her "Shotgun Shannon" as it is, because she is a tough gal that wife of mine, so the name seems to fit just perfectly. AND, were we to do that, we would have horses too! But sadly, in the Oklahoma Panhandle, there is little water. The "rivers" are usually dry (the Cimarron and the Beaver), and geez, to be away from the Sea and fresh cold rivers and creeks would be hard on this guy. But as time goes on, we could become "snowbirds". Spring summer and here, winter down there. We are working on that, actually...
Anyways, I hope it works out with the horses. And what kind are they? My wife was always into quarter horses, naturally. Her uncle always has 70 head running on his open range from which he picks and chooses for his cowboys to use. Geez, what a life to tap into if we wanted too! But for now, we are Alaskans. We finally had to put the breaks on the Nomadic Wayfer lifestyle, and this is where we are for now. And hey, thanks for your kind words, your friend. Peace...
and...I think that the teachings have failed you too Dove, you just don`t know it.
Well we disagree on this point, many of the teachings have far from failed me , in fact they have saved me, time and time again from consequences of unscriptural decisions through the years.
Geez, WS, in actuality, I am no "horse guy" either! MOst of what I know comes from my wife! But, I do love horses. We had a 14 year old mare by the name of "Rooster". She was a good old gal and a perfect "kid horse". Kind and gentle and would never act up on the kids. She just did what they told her. Walk, lope, trot, left, right, stop, whatever. But really, maybe Rascal because she does in fact own horses? I could throw in for a "fishing thread" though. Now that is clearly up my alley! Anyways, thanks for the thought WS!
Sadly, no fishing for me. The pasture that I had arranged for the horses fell through at the last miniute and I will be at home fencing in Tenn. instead of enjoying fishing and festivities in Michigan over the 4th.
Any possibility you could make it up mid August? I'm not going north for the 4th this year either, but we are going to head that way in mid August.
Refreshing that passion for what one believes is still alive and well. I forget the Frenchman who said, in essence, I may not agree with what you say but I will defend your right to say it.
After reading here and there on this thread I must concur that I be diggin with what Johnny Lingo conveys. I haven't been here long enough to know why he went to cyber jail. Don't really care. But I had myself some great times in twi. My dearest, closet friends to this day are from my way days. It is not the way days that bond us together but rather that we have a genuine love for each other. After 32 years, Vonda, Stan, Claudia, Vivian, Jackie and I are still one with each other. I count my blessings.
And I dare say that I did learn some stuff that set me free. The greatest tragedy of my waydays was my marriage. My "husband" thought because we were no longer in the way we no longer had a marriage. When we went to court he had some ex-wayers testify that I had been in a cult and that is why I should not have custody of our children!!! He was in twi when I met him. Talk about shell shocked. Folks that had been in our fellowship, people that I loved and thought loved me, went on vacations together, ate together, shared everything together, testified that I was in a cult and that I could harm my children. They weren't even in the way anymore, either. I sat there like a dead person hearing all this. They accused me of what they, themselves, had believed and lived.
And I do say that personally for me, Kimberly, Father got me in the way and He got me out. I know this is a sensitive issue considering all the allegations of abuse in twi. And I do not dispute any. Believe you me, I know sexual abuse. I grew up with it.
Apparently good opinions (about TWI) go against the site agenda and are not allowed to be posted under threat.
Hhmmmm ... okay. Well, since you are one who's so anal retentive for that biblical principle of having 2 or more witnesses are needed to make a charge stick, ... where is your 2nd witness that will testify to this Rule? Oh, and sorry, but opinions that this is the case doesn't make the cut as a viable 'witness' as, like you yourself said, everybody has opinions. A real witness testifies to documentable fact.
As a matter of fact, you yourself have failed to document said fact about said Rule, as indicated by your usage of the word 'apparently'. ... Ie., you are only giving your ... opinion. Which you have a right to. ... But it is still, nonetheless, ..... opinion.
But seriously, there has been FAR more than the required and biblical two witnesses given that accounts and proves the (now dead) Vicster's sexual abuse, (and its the kind of testimony that would be accepted at any court you want to name, be it related to a direct charge, or at showing a pattern of previous behavior by the defendant), that your (IMNSHO) purported loyalty to the biblical requirement of needing 2 or more witnesses to accuse is shown to be the scam that it is. A scam that is blindly loyal to to the reputation of one Victor Paul Wierwille.
So take your own implicit advice. ... The man is dead. Like sleeping dogs, let him, and his now rotten reputation lie. .... And move on with your life.
...some questions just can't be answered here as much as I would love to respond It appears we have different rules for posting good and bad opinions of the Way. Apparently good opinions go against the site agenda and are not allowed to be posted under threat. this isn't FOX News so it is not required to be fair and balanced One sided versions are ok. It's not my space so I abided by the request for the thread.
Some people just like to make things up. Or post undocumented ramblings. Sounds like one side of the story.
Hhmmmm ... okay. Well, since you are one who's so anal retentive for that biblical principle of having 2 or more witnesses are needed to make a charge stick, ... where is your 2nd witness that will testify to this Rule? Oh, and sorry, but opinions that this is the case doesn't make the cut as a viable 'witness' as, like you yourself said, everybody has opinions. A real witness testifies to documentable fact.
As a matter of fact, you yourself have failed to document said fact about said Rule, as indicated by your usage of the word 'apparently'. ... Ie., you are only giving your ... opinion. Which you have a right to. ... But it is still, nonetheless, ..... opinion.
Apparently does not mean opinion it means clearly, easily percieved, obvious
–adjective 1. readily seen; exposed to sight; open to view; visible: The crack in the wall was readily apparent.
2. capable of being easily perceived or understood; plain or clear; obvious:
But seriously, there has been FAR more than the required and biblical two witnesses given that accounts and proves the (now dead) Vicster's sexual abuse, (and its the kind of testimony that would be accepted at any court you want to name, be it related to a direct charge, or at showing a pattern of previous behavior by the defendant), that your (IMNSHO) purported loyalty to the biblical requirement of needing 2 or more witnesses to accuse is shown to be the scam that it is. A scam that is blindly loyal to to the reputation of one Victor Paul Wierwille.
So take your own implicit advice. ... The man is dead. Like sleeping dogs, let him, and his now rotten reputation lie. .... And move on with your life.
Have a nice day!
I have a PM to prove my point, I'll honor the person who sent it privacy, had they wanted it posted they would have done so .
A PM to prove your point? As far as there being an actual Rule that expressing good opinions re: TWI go against the site agenda and are not allowed to be posted under threat? ... Ahh but because its a PM (ie., private message), you're going to honor their privacy.
... Uh huh. Sure. <_< ..... Well, when they want to validate their charge of said Rule (to prove your point, that is), then let them make that private charge public. Otherwise, all we got is your say-so. ... Ie., Hearsay. ... Ie., undocumented accusation.
Oh, and no, it's not in the same category of the so-called 'undocumented' accusations against VPW, as the accusers in those situations personally experienced said situations, and have given their personal testimonies thereto (publically, I might add). AND since there are many others who not only have gone thru the same sort of situations, but others still who (like Ralph Dubofsky for one) have heard VPW himself own up to said situations, ..... You catch my drift?
Like I said, ... Just let it go.
(Egads! This is almost like arguing with a Holocaust denier! :blink: )
A PM to prove your point? As far as there being an actual Rule that expressing good opinions re: TWI go against the site agenda and are not allowed to be posted under threat? ... Ahh but because its a PM (ie., private message), you're going to honor their privacy.
... Uh huh. Sure. <_< ..... Well, when they want to validate their charge of said Rule (to prove your point, that is), then let them make that private charge public. Otherwise, all we got is your say-so. ... Ie., Hearsay. ... Ie., undocumented accusation.
Oh, and no, it's not in the same category of the so-called 'undocumented' accusations against VPW, as the accusers in those situations personally experienced said situations, and have given their personal testimonies thereto (publically, I might add). AND since there are many others who not only have gone thru the same sort of situations, but others still who (like Ralph Dubofsky for one) have heard VPW himself own up to said situations, ..... You catch my drift?
Like I said, ... Just let it go.
(Egads! This is almost like arguing with a Holocaust denier! :blink: )
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geisha779
I heard a rumor that David repented and had some Godly sorrow for His sins. I missed TWI "LEADERSHIPs" sorrowful heart for the pain they caused. Even Jimmy Swaggart had the good manners to cry cro
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WhiteDove
]
Yeah I was from 73 - 88 I left on my terms although I suspect had I not been smart enough to have planned I would have eventually been given the boot for non compliance with their letter of demand.
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rascal
Confident in ones walk with God?? Those of us that joined at 16,17, 18 ... for many of us...TWI teaching is what defined that walk. TWI teaching is the only thing many of us knew about faith and practice.
How could we have known any better than what we learned from the man of God for our day and time, and the ministry that brought us the greatness of God`s word??
Why on earth would we doubt the people who claimed to speak for God? Why would we not do everything within our power to have access to the people who were teaching the truth like it hadn`t been known since the first century?
You complied or you were thrown outside the hedge of God`s protection and denied access to the hous hold of God`s elect.
Damned right, if we had been taught honestly, we might have stood a chance of having confidence in our walk and stand with God.\
For you Dove, to claim that it was otherwise, given your limited exposure to anything outside your tiny little geographic location, is absurd.
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J0nny Ling0
God called David to be King. God did good things through David. David steals Uriah's wife. Porks her. Gets her knocked up, and through complicity, tries to get Uriah to spend the night with his wife to get the pressure off of her being pregnant. the deception doesn't work. Uriah too honorable of a man. David murders him. Now how in the hell could anything good ever have been part of David's life? I don't know. He was a wife stealin murderin son of a biotch. These things I'll figure out when the Prince of peace comes back...
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jen-o
this stuff about God "calling" people to twi is NONSENSE...
God NEVER calls anyone to an organization!
God calls people to the Body of Christ...
and the longer i'm around, the more i realize that the majority of folks in twi were NOT born again...
without Jesus, twi was an organization of empty rituals and man-made doctrine...
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geisha779
I heard a rumor that David repented and had some Godly sorrow for His sins.
I missed TWI "LEADERSHIPs" sorrowful heart for the pain they caused.
Even Jimmy Swaggart had the good manners to cry crocidile tears.
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excathedra
snort
good snort, geisha
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rascal
Brilliant Jeno!
Great point Geisha!
Jonny, I think that David behaved as a man that had no spirit....ie it wasn`t available according to twi doctrine. I think wierwille did the same....Thing is...wierwille claimed to be born again, a man of the spirit....scriptures say that these guys live a higher standard.
Wierwille hasn`t got any inheritance in the kingdom of heaven ... according to galatians.
I think judging by the evidence of the fruit in his life...the sucker didn`t have a clue about spiritual matters.
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J0nny Ling0
Rascal my Sistah,
I will no longer argue with you on this. I enjoyed our brief honeymoon, and honestly girl, it was very nice to be on good terms with you. Really. But I don't want to argue with you anymore. I am sure that you are a sweet woman, and I know that your fire has to do with loving and helping others. But we do, and still have, an opposing viewpoint concerning TWI, and I am weary of arguing the point. Perhaps we can simply agree to disagree. I know that my opinion here is different than the "mission" of the GSCafe, and so, because my opinion isn't really all that welcome, I will bow out. I love you muchos en Christo mi hermana!
En Christo,
Juanny Lingo
P.S.
I am editing this to say to you: Good spring bass and pike fishing! Once, I caught two 28 inch Northerns, and hooked but did not land a Northern that was at least 40 inches long all in one day! Wow! Please remember, those Northern Pike are in fact REAL FISH!
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WhiteDove
I was 18 and?
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rascal
and...I think that the teachings have failed you too Dove, you just don`t know it.
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rascal
Jonny brother, you have my respect, and I do not want to argue with you either. I appreciate you putting on the brakes and resisting the urge to smack this mouthy, oh so irritating woman down :)
Sadly, no fishing for me. The pasture that I had arranged for the horses fell through at the last miniute and I will be at home fencing in Tenn. instead of enjoying fishing and festivities in Michigan over the 4th.
Maybe the ministry had the right idea about the *no serious pets* policy at that...lol
Maybe we will jump in the river with the kayaks instead.
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J0nny Ling0
So, "Home" is in Tennessee? I thought Home for you was in Michigan. But I guess I missed that point. And, you have horses? Cool. I love horses. My wife was a serious "horse girl" when she was a kid and used to ride her horse to school in Oklahoma. After school, they'd all mount up and say; "Let's ride!" and go tearing off across the football field and onto the prairie. What a life! If we wanted to, we could easily move back down there, and have access to her wealthy uncle's 79,000 acre ranch, and lease any small amount that we wanted. We have often thought of raising corn and milo, not harvesting it but rather knocking it down making habitat for pheasant and quail so that we could then bring bird hunters out for a fee and let them shoot birds. We would also raise our favorite dogs the German Wirehaired Pointer,
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/germanwirehairedpointer.htm
train them and use them with the clients on the hunts. My wife is named Shannon, and we would call it "Shotgun Shannon's Pheasant Ranch". I already call her "Shotgun Shannon" as it is, because she is a tough gal that wife of mine, so the name seems to fit just perfectly. AND, were we to do that, we would have horses too! But sadly, in the Oklahoma Panhandle, there is little water. The "rivers" are usually dry (the Cimarron and the Beaver), and geez, to be away from the Sea and fresh cold rivers and creeks would be hard on this guy. But as time goes on, we could become "snowbirds". Spring summer and here, winter down there. We are working on that, actually...
Anyways, I hope it works out with the horses. And what kind are they? My wife was always into quarter horses, naturally. Her uncle always has 70 head running on his open range from which he picks and chooses for his cowboys to use. Geez, what a life to tap into if we wanted too! But for now, we are Alaskans. We finally had to put the breaks on the Nomadic Wayfer lifestyle, and this is where we are for now. And hey, thanks for your kind words, your friend. Peace...
Kevin
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WhiteDove
Well we disagree on this point, many of the teachings have far from failed me , in fact they have saved me, time and time again from consequences of unscriptural decisions through the years.
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waysider
Hey Jonny!
We have a kitchen thread, a guitar thread, a joke thread, why not a horse thread?
You would probably have to start it, though, 'cause I don't know beans about oats.(or horses)
Sigh! If only I had caught that Golden Pony I chased around the neighborhood when I was a kid.
Sadly, he was far too quick for me and managed to always stay one city block ahead of me.
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J0nny Ling0
Geez, WS, in actuality, I am no "horse guy" either! MOst of what I know comes from my wife! But, I do love horses. We had a 14 year old mare by the name of "Rooster". She was a good old gal and a perfect "kid horse". Kind and gentle and would never act up on the kids. She just did what they told her. Walk, lope, trot, left, right, stop, whatever. But really, maybe Rascal because she does in fact own horses? I could throw in for a "fishing thread" though. Now that is clearly up my alley! Anyways, thanks for the thought WS!
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Abigail
Any possibility you could make it up mid August? I'm not going north for the 4th this year either, but we are going to head that way in mid August.
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rascal
Wow..great idea Abby. It is a definite thing to consider :)
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kimberly
Refreshing that passion for what one believes is still alive and well. I forget the Frenchman who said, in essence, I may not agree with what you say but I will defend your right to say it.
After reading here and there on this thread I must concur that I be diggin with what Johnny Lingo conveys. I haven't been here long enough to know why he went to cyber jail. Don't really care. But I had myself some great times in twi. My dearest, closet friends to this day are from my way days. It is not the way days that bond us together but rather that we have a genuine love for each other. After 32 years, Vonda, Stan, Claudia, Vivian, Jackie and I are still one with each other. I count my blessings.
And I dare say that I did learn some stuff that set me free. The greatest tragedy of my waydays was my marriage. My "husband" thought because we were no longer in the way we no longer had a marriage. When we went to court he had some ex-wayers testify that I had been in a cult and that is why I should not have custody of our children!!! He was in twi when I met him. Talk about shell shocked. Folks that had been in our fellowship, people that I loved and thought loved me, went on vacations together, ate together, shared everything together, testified that I was in a cult and that I could harm my children. They weren't even in the way anymore, either. I sat there like a dead person hearing all this. They accused me of what they, themselves, had believed and lived.
And I do say that personally for me, Kimberly, Father got me in the way and He got me out. I know this is a sensitive issue considering all the allegations of abuse in twi. And I do not dispute any. Believe you me, I know sexual abuse. I grew up with it.
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GarthP2000
Whitedove whines--errr says in an earlier post,
Hhmmmm ... okay. Well, since you are one who's so anal retentive for that biblical principle of having 2 or more witnesses are needed to make a charge stick, ... where is your 2nd witness that will testify to this Rule? Oh, and sorry, but opinions that this is the case doesn't make the cut as a viable 'witness' as, like you yourself said, everybody has opinions. A real witness testifies to documentable fact.
As a matter of fact, you yourself have failed to document said fact about said Rule, as indicated by your usage of the word 'apparently'. ... Ie., you are only giving your ... opinion. Which you have a right to. ... But it is still, nonetheless, ..... opinion.
But seriously, there has been FAR more than the required and biblical two witnesses given that accounts and proves the (now dead) Vicster's sexual abuse, (and its the kind of testimony that would be accepted at any court you want to name, be it related to a direct charge, or at showing a pattern of previous behavior by the defendant), that your (IMNSHO) purported loyalty to the biblical requirement of needing 2 or more witnesses to accuse is shown to be the scam that it is. A scam that is blindly loyal to to the reputation of one Victor Paul Wierwille.
So take your own implicit advice. ... The man is dead. Like sleeping dogs, let him, and his now rotten reputation lie. .... And move on with your life.
Have a nice day!
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Oakspear
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WhiteDove
I have a PM to prove my point, I'll honor the person who sent it privacy, had they wanted it posted they would have done so .
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GarthP2000
A PM to prove your point? As far as there being an actual Rule that expressing good opinions re: TWI go against the site agenda and are not allowed to be posted under threat? ... Ahh but because its a PM (ie., private message), you're going to honor their privacy.
... Uh huh. Sure. <_< ..... Well, when they want to validate their charge of said Rule (to prove your point, that is), then let them make that private charge public. Otherwise, all we got is your say-so. ... Ie., Hearsay. ... Ie., undocumented accusation.
Oh, and no, it's not in the same category of the so-called 'undocumented' accusations against VPW, as the accusers in those situations personally experienced said situations, and have given their personal testimonies thereto (publically, I might add). AND since there are many others who not only have gone thru the same sort of situations, but others still who (like Ralph Dubofsky for one) have heard VPW himself own up to said situations, ..... You catch my drift?
Like I said, ... Just let it go.
(Egads! This is almost like arguing with a Holocaust denier! :blink: )
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WhiteDove
That would be their option.
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