So it is to be if it is written on these threads. It is the gospel truth?
no accountability needed, no checks no balances. nothing but words on the www, grease spot friends say it is true so if you do not believe it you must lack compassion.
quite a leap from your stance towards STF and CES when you write in that thread about how foolish their decision making skills were tanzia.
I guess we get to pick and chose who to judge and believe at the end of the day hmm.
Finding useful information in the forums is difficult. There is a pretty low signal to noise ratio. But you can find the podcasts easily, and those are all content.
One idea that might be worthwhile is to have a new forum for people's personal accounts that is highly moderated with zero noise tolerance. Then we could leave the
About the Way forum open for the normal shenanigans.
So it is to be if it is written on these threads. It is the gospel truth?
no accountability needed, no checks no balances. nothing but words on the www, grease spot friends say it is true so if you do not believe it you must lack compassion.
quite a leap from your stance towards STF and CES when you write in that thread about how foolish their decision making skills were tanzia.
I guess we get to pick and chose who to judge and believe at the end of the day hmm.
So you believe people make up stories that are completely false to cause people to leave TWI?
no not to leave twi most who post here and get into these debates have been writing on this forum for years and are clearly more into one another than a conspiracy to plot against those who may stillbe involved with twi.
no I think Socks wrote a very nice piece that covers why and also my previous posts maybe within this thread spells out why for me.
I assume by what posts i have read that those who consider the title victim hate the ones they claim to be victims of.
my bad if that is not true.
well it wouldnt be a discussion board it would be a board with very little debate, maybe a disscussion board for only those select . is that what your looking for?
I think the idea of a seperate area but Pawtucket said he tried that and it didnt work so ...
All of this shouldn't be rocket science. We're all human beings, and should know how to deal with each other appropriately.
There are people here who have said that VPW raped them. Now I don't know about where all of you are from, but at least where I am from when someone says that they were raped, you don't start telling them that they remembered it wrong, or that they're lying, or whatever. Unless someone says a specific lie that you have proof they are wrong, you should give them the benefit of the doubt on that topic. Likewise, since you know VPW and LCM are thought of poorly by the majority of people on this site, you should use tact in defending him. I don't think we should completely prohibit defending him at all, but those that want to do so should be careful about how they do it. This is, obviously, intended to be read by the VPW supporters.
For the rest of you, remember that the TWI supporters are human beings too. At one point, you would have been in their shoes defending VPW, LCM, TWI, or any of their doctrines. The fact is, they are here, and we have an opportunity to show them what we know. Don't view it as an us vs. them situation, but rather a chance for us to help people who have been made mentally ill from being in TWI. Be nice to them, at least until they are belligerent.
All of this shouldn't be rocket science. We're all human beings, and should know how to deal with each other appropriately.
There are people here who have said that VPW raped them. Now I don't know about where all of you are from, but at least where I am from when someone says that they were raped, you don't start telling them that they remembered it wrong, or that they're lying, or whatever. Unless someone says a specific lie that you have proof they are wrong, you should give them the benefit of the doubt on that topic. Likewise, since you know VPW and LCM are thought of poorly by the majority of people on this site, you should use tact in defending him. I don't think we should completely prohibit defending him at all, but those that want to do so should be careful about how they do it. This is, obviously, intended to be read by the VPW supporters.
For the rest of you, remember that the TWI supporters are human beings too. At one point, you would have been in their shoes defending VPW, LCM, TWI, or any of their doctrines. The fact is, they are here, and we have an opportunity to show them what we know. Don't view it as an us vs. them situation, but rather a chance for us to help people who have been made mentally ill from being in [harmed by] TWI. Be nice to them, at least until they are belligerent.
I realize I'm being picky about semantics. And essentially I agree with you P-Mosh. But there's a significant difference between "made mentally ill" and "harmed by." At minimum, use of the expression "harmed by" puts the focus where it belongs, on the fact that the ramification was caused by the action of those who did wrong.
As to the "until they are beliggerent..." well, the example of the conduct of the poster on these threads over the weekend... was not a person claiming the harm to her had been done by wierwille or others in twi.
I assume by what posts i have read that those who consider the title victim hate the ones they claim to be victims of.
my bad if that is not true.
well it wouldnt be a discussion board it would be a board with very little debate, maybe a disscussion board for only those select . is that what your looking for?
I think the idea of a seperate area but Pawtucket said he tried that and it didnt work so ...
No. It would still be a discussion board. Debate would still be allowed - with the the exception of when a victim is relating her (or his) story.
I added "his" because the husbands of these women (like P All3n and others) are/were victims as well.
I think the consensus is that anyone can discuss all they want - but not on those threads.
I like Rocky's edit to P-Mosh's post. Even if they are belligerent, we should still be nice to them, since responding in kind only escalates the hostilities. "A soft answer turneth away wrath" is not just a nice saying to put on the fridge. It works.
So it is to be if it is written on these threads. It is the gospel truth?
no accountability needed, no checks no balances. nothing but words on the www, grease spot friends say it is true so if you do not believe it you must lack compassion.
quite a leap from your stance towards STF and CES when you write in that thread about how foolish their decision making skills were tanzia.
I guess we get to pick and chose who to judge and believe at the end of the day hmm.
That's not what I said. I would let anyone have their say - and correct them when I believe their reasoning is flawed. To kick them off just fuels that sense of self-righteousness.
The compassion is because many have been in the same place. Most of us have turned a deaf ear to the reality of what TWI is really all about.
CES - every last one of those guys would have still been at TWI if they hadn't gotten the boot.
I like Rocky's edit to P-Mosh's post. Even if they are belligerent, we should still be nice to them, since responding in kind only escalates the hostilities. "A soft answer turneth away wrath" is not just a nice saying to put on the fridge. It works.
A swift rebuke could either be kind or unkind, so the kindness should still be a factor in order to keep from escalating hostilities.
For example, say a poster writes something along the lines of, "I don't believe that person's testimony is true. There's no evidence supporting it." (I know this is not exactly what WD said, I'm just using it as an example.)
An unkind response would be something like, "Who are you to judge? Were you there? You probably worship the ground VP walks on, so you're just as blind and stupid as anyone still in TWI!"
A kind response that would still rebuke the first post would be something like, "You have a right to accept or reject anyone's testimony. I would have to wonder, what reason would you have for not believing it? Is there evidence to the contrary that you know of? If you have serious doubts about the veracity of the testimony, please don't derail this thread, as it was started as an opportunity for XXX to tell their story, but start another thread to discuss it."
Some characteristics of posts that will escalate hostilities no matter which side of a debate uses them, include name-calling, insinuations about the intelligence of the poster, presumption to judge the other's motives, associating what the poster said with something else which they did not say, and attitudes of, "If you misunderstood me, that's YOUR problem, not mine."
Characteristics of posts that challenge without being unkind include, asking the poster the reasons WHY they feel or believe the way they do, pointing out inconsistancies gently without assuming they are lying, causing trouble, or just stupid (even if they are any of those :) ), asking gently for clarification, and generally being polite even if you disagree with a person's viewpoint. Saying, "Can you see how your post may have been taken this way?" is always preferable to "You're so full of sh!t your eyes are brown!!!"
As always, the key is consideration, and the Golden Rule. How would you feel if someone wrote that to you? Always be aware of how your post MAY be interpreted - reading it over before hitting the Add Reply button helps a lot. If everyone followed these guidelines there'd be less hostility. Of course, I realize that everyone would follow these guidelines if we lived in a perfect world, but we don't. However we can do our best, and if someone comes along who is rude, we should point that out and not "respond in kind."
As I understand it, "spare the rod, spoil the child" is referring to the rod of correction which a parent uses with his/her child. It is a symbol of authority ("rod" is the same word as "scepter") more than a weapon. That's why a parent can use even the warning of the rod to get the child's attention (cp. the modern, "Do I have to get the wooden spoon?"). However this is all in the context of disciplining a child over which you have authority. I suppose warnings to continually unruly posters, and the threat of whatever discipline can be used in this context (suspention or banning?) can be applied by administrators, but in the general fray of the posts, we should always strive for understanding and kindness as much as possible.
Yeah right. We're convinced you've got the skinny and the truth about VPW - and everyone and everything that has ever been associated with TWI.
Don't be offended that we just can't come to the same conclusions you have - that is, that you've got everything competely in balance regarding VPW, TWI, etc., when we see your vindictive fingers still stuck upon the scales of justice.
An amazing thing just happened. I read this over and over again, and the more I read it, the less I cared. Look, it just happened again! Wow. No matter how many times I read it, I find that I COULD care less, and I instantly do!
You know...if vp hadn`t been a slime ball, scum bag, serial sexual predator, drunken raping PIG....we wouldn`t have anything to TALK about vindictive or otherwise WOULD we?
Heres a clue friend, if one DOESN`T wish to be villainized after their death...If one DESIRES a legacy of being viewed as being a minister or having decency and being of moral character....then LIVE that way.
Wierwille SHOULD have had to face the music while he lived. I`ll be darned if you boogers will keep his crimes hidden now that he is dead.
You know...if vp hadn`t been a slime ball, scum bag, serial sexual predator, drunken raping PIG....we wouldn`t have anything to TALK about vindictive or otherwise WOULD we?
Heres a clue friend, if one DOESN`T wish to be villainized after their death...If one DESIRES a legacy of being viewed as being a minister or having decency and being of moral character....then LIVE that way.
Wierwille SHOULD have had to face the music while he lived. I`ll be darned if you boogers will keep his crimes hidden now that he is dead.
Boogers! Great word!
The rest are good too, but "Boogers"...great word! Says it straight.
Yeah right. We're convinced you've got the skinny and the truth about VPW - and everyone and everything that has ever been associated with TWI.
Don't be offended that we just can't come to the same conclusions you have - that is, that you've got everything competely in balance regarding VPW, TWI, etc., when we see your vindictive fingers still stuck upon the scales of justice.
I've never said I have the truth and the skinny (?) about VPW and everyone and everything that has ever been associated with TWI. I've only "shared" my experiences with the fellow.
And that part about vindictive fingers stuck upon the scales of justice !!!!! I'll worry about that, don't you mind...
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pond
So it is to be if it is written on these threads. It is the gospel truth?
no accountability needed, no checks no balances. nothing but words on the www, grease spot friends say it is true so if you do not believe it you must lack compassion.
quite a leap from your stance towards STF and CES when you write in that thread about how foolish their decision making skills were tanzia.
I guess we get to pick and chose who to judge and believe at the end of the day hmm.
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chockfull
Finding useful information in the forums is difficult. There is a pretty low signal to noise ratio. But you can find the podcasts easily, and those are all content.
One idea that might be worthwhile is to have a new forum for people's personal accounts that is highly moderated with zero noise tolerance. Then we could leave the
About the Way forum open for the normal shenanigans.
So you believe people make up stories that are completely false to cause people to leave TWI?
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pond
no not to leave twi most who post here and get into these debates have been writing on this forum for years and are clearly more into one another than a conspiracy to plot against those who may stillbe involved with twi.
no I think Socks wrote a very nice piece that covers why and also my previous posts maybe within this thread spells out why for me.
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pond
Does disagreement = disruption?
for everyone.
If so, the clearly it is not an open board of discussions but a hate site .
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Rocky
There's a time and a place for everything. On some issues, voicing disagreement does equal being disruptive.
It appears people are saying that there is a legitimate need here for twi sexual abuse victims to express themselves without being hassled in return.
That does not make this a hate site.
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RumRunner
Succinct and I concur.
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pond
I assume by what posts i have read that those who consider the title victim hate the ones they claim to be victims of.
my bad if that is not true.
well it wouldnt be a discussion board it would be a board with very little debate, maybe a disscussion board for only those select . is that what your looking for?
I think the idea of a seperate area but Pawtucket said he tried that and it didnt work so ...
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Mister P-Mosh
All of this shouldn't be rocket science. We're all human beings, and should know how to deal with each other appropriately.
There are people here who have said that VPW raped them. Now I don't know about where all of you are from, but at least where I am from when someone says that they were raped, you don't start telling them that they remembered it wrong, or that they're lying, or whatever. Unless someone says a specific lie that you have proof they are wrong, you should give them the benefit of the doubt on that topic. Likewise, since you know VPW and LCM are thought of poorly by the majority of people on this site, you should use tact in defending him. I don't think we should completely prohibit defending him at all, but those that want to do so should be careful about how they do it. This is, obviously, intended to be read by the VPW supporters.
For the rest of you, remember that the TWI supporters are human beings too. At one point, you would have been in their shoes defending VPW, LCM, TWI, or any of their doctrines. The fact is, they are here, and we have an opportunity to show them what we know. Don't view it as an us vs. them situation, but rather a chance for us to help people who have been made mentally ill from being in TWI. Be nice to them, at least until they are belligerent.
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Rocky
I realize I'm being picky about semantics. And essentially I agree with you P-Mosh. But there's a significant difference between "made mentally ill" and "harmed by." At minimum, use of the expression "harmed by" puts the focus where it belongs, on the fact that the ramification was caused by the action of those who did wrong.
As to the "until they are beliggerent..." well, the example of the conduct of the poster on these threads over the weekend... was not a person claiming the harm to her had been done by wierwille or others in twi.
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doojable
No. It would still be a discussion board. Debate would still be allowed - with the the exception of when a victim is relating her (or his) story.
I added "his" because the husbands of these women (like P All3n and others) are/were victims as well.
I think the consensus is that anyone can discuss all they want - but not on those threads.
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Mark Clarke
I like Rocky's edit to P-Mosh's post. Even if they are belligerent, we should still be nice to them, since responding in kind only escalates the hostilities. "A soft answer turneth away wrath" is not just a nice saying to put on the fridge. It works.
(I agree with eveything else P-Mosh said, too)
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Tzaia
That's not what I said. I would let anyone have their say - and correct them when I believe their reasoning is flawed. To kick them off just fuels that sense of self-righteousness.
The compassion is because many have been in the same place. Most of us have turned a deaf ear to the reality of what TWI is really all about.
CES - every last one of those guys would have still been at TWI if they hadn't gotten the boot.
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dmiller
Sometimes a swift rebuke does too.
"Spare the rod, spoil the child" comes to mind.
Just my IMO.
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Mark Clarke
A swift rebuke could either be kind or unkind, so the kindness should still be a factor in order to keep from escalating hostilities.
For example, say a poster writes something along the lines of, "I don't believe that person's testimony is true. There's no evidence supporting it." (I know this is not exactly what WD said, I'm just using it as an example.)
An unkind response would be something like, "Who are you to judge? Were you there? You probably worship the ground VP walks on, so you're just as blind and stupid as anyone still in TWI!"
A kind response that would still rebuke the first post would be something like, "You have a right to accept or reject anyone's testimony. I would have to wonder, what reason would you have for not believing it? Is there evidence to the contrary that you know of? If you have serious doubts about the veracity of the testimony, please don't derail this thread, as it was started as an opportunity for XXX to tell their story, but start another thread to discuss it."
Some characteristics of posts that will escalate hostilities no matter which side of a debate uses them, include name-calling, insinuations about the intelligence of the poster, presumption to judge the other's motives, associating what the poster said with something else which they did not say, and attitudes of, "If you misunderstood me, that's YOUR problem, not mine."
Characteristics of posts that challenge without being unkind include, asking the poster the reasons WHY they feel or believe the way they do, pointing out inconsistancies gently without assuming they are lying, causing trouble, or just stupid (even if they are any of those :) ), asking gently for clarification, and generally being polite even if you disagree with a person's viewpoint. Saying, "Can you see how your post may have been taken this way?" is always preferable to "You're so full of sh!t your eyes are brown!!!"
As always, the key is consideration, and the Golden Rule. How would you feel if someone wrote that to you? Always be aware of how your post MAY be interpreted - reading it over before hitting the Add Reply button helps a lot. If everyone followed these guidelines there'd be less hostility. Of course, I realize that everyone would follow these guidelines if we lived in a perfect world, but we don't. However we can do our best, and if someone comes along who is rude, we should point that out and not "respond in kind."
As I understand it, "spare the rod, spoil the child" is referring to the rod of correction which a parent uses with his/her child. It is a symbol of authority ("rod" is the same word as "scepter") more than a weapon. That's why a parent can use even the warning of the rod to get the child's attention (cp. the modern, "Do I have to get the wooden spoon?"). However this is all in the context of disciplining a child over which you have authority. I suppose warnings to continually unruly posters, and the threat of whatever discipline can be used in this context (suspention or banning?) can be applied by administrators, but in the general fray of the posts, we should always strive for understanding and kindness as much as possible.
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Raf
An amazing thing just happened. I read this over and over again, and the more I read it, the less I cared. Look, it just happened again! Wow. No matter how many times I read it, I find that I COULD care less, and I instantly do!
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rascal
You know...if vp hadn`t been a slime ball, scum bag, serial sexual predator, drunken raping PIG....we wouldn`t have anything to TALK about vindictive or otherwise WOULD we?
Heres a clue friend, if one DOESN`T wish to be villainized after their death...If one DESIRES a legacy of being viewed as being a minister or having decency and being of moral character....then LIVE that way.
Wierwille SHOULD have had to face the music while he lived. I`ll be darned if you boogers will keep his crimes hidden now that he is dead.
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Raf
I wanted to apologize about my words yesterday. I examined my heart, and I know in my heart I was wrong.
Truth is, I couldn't care less. I even tried. I just can't.
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Dot Matrix
Brief aside
Hi Raf, I have missed you and Zixar!
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ChasUFarley
Love it!
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Eyesopen
Boogers! Great word!
The rest are good too, but "Boogers"...great word! Says it straight.
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GarthP2000
Ahhh yes. That word does bring back the good ol' days of my youth.
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rascal
I guess maybe I HAVE been spending too much time with kids of late..lol
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excathedra
wow kids here don't say booger lol !!!!
I've never said I have the truth and the skinny (?) about VPW and everyone and everything that has ever been associated with TWI. I've only "shared" my experiences with the fellow.
And that part about vindictive fingers stuck upon the scales of justice !!!!! I'll worry about that, don't you mind...
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