Very thought provoking post, Cheranne! For me what has helped a lot has been coming to Grease Spot. Just getting a sense of what others have experienced is illuminating. It does a lot to validate some thoughts I’ve had – which builds self-confidence I guess….
Tonto & I have gone through spells of church shopping – but don’t belong to one and haven’t gone to a church in a long time. I think part of me is just so burned out with the whole organized religion thing….still read the Bible…still pray…still try to live an honest decent life and be good to my fellowman.
Not really sure about a personality change – since coming out from under TWI’s shadow, I figure my personality has always been there – just greatly suppressed while I was in.
Very thought provoking post, Cheranne! For me what has helped a lot has been coming to Grease Spot. Just getting a sense of what others have experienced is illuminating. It does a lot to validate some thoughts I’ve had – which builds self-confidence I guess…. Tonto & I have gone through spells of church shopping – but don’t belong to one and haven’t gone to a church in a long time. I think part of me is just so burned out with the whole organized religion thing….still read the Bible…still pray…still try to live an honest decent life and be good to my fellowman. Not really sure about a personality change – since coming out from under TWI’s shadow, I figure my personality has always been there – just greatly suppressed while I was in.
Mostly I feel o.k., but sometimes I still don't feel comfortable in my own skin, but I may be starting to feel comfortable with myself.Have I changed, boy I hope so!
I have changed but I still think about this everyday.object width="425" height="344">
I am not worried about TWI growing it is pretty much flat lined.
What does concern me are all the people,men women and especially children that
still have all that wrong teaching in there mind..
Funny you should mention that just now... I recently got back in touch with a bunch of new/old friends on the waycorps site and I'm just amazed at how many of them haven't associated with twi for YEARS but sound like they just walked out of a twi fellowship twenty minutes ago. It makes me wonder why they bothered leaving the organization at all because they certainly didn't clear their minds afterwards!
Anyway... before I joined twi I had gotten to the point that I thought each individual person had to find their own way to understand the universe and commune with God, but having been raised in the church I felt really, really, really guilty about it. That's why I was so primed for something like twi... they were different but organized; exactly what I thought I was looking for.
When I left twi I tried going to church (lots of different churches in fact) but couldn't stand it.
And now, nearly ten years later, I find I am back where I was at the beginning: thinking each person needs to find their own spirituality and express it in their own way. But now I no longer feel guilty about it. I am finally happy with my place in the universe.
I wish I had a road map others could follow but I don't think there is one. Maybe "prove all things, hold fast to that which is true" is the closest I can come except instead of some institution telling me what that means, I get to decide what the "truth" is for myself. At least that way if I ever had to stand before my maker and explain myself I can (rather than having to say "I did it because they told me to do it").
Funny you should mention that just now... I recently got back in touch with a bunch of new/old friends on the waycorps site and I'm just amazed at how many of them haven't associated with twi for YEARS but sound like they just walked out of a twi fellowship twenty minutes ago. It makes me wonder why they bothered leaving the organization at all because they certainly didn't clear their minds afterwards!
Anyway... before I joined twi I had gotten to the point that I thought each individual person had to find their own way to understand the universe and commune with God, but having been raised in the church I felt really, really, really guilty about it. That's why I was so primed for something like twi... they were different but organized; exactly what I thought I was looking for.
When I left twi I tried going to church (lots of different churches in fact) but couldn't stand it.
And now, nearly ten years later, I find I am back where I was at the beginning: thinking each person needs to find their own spirituality and express it in their own way. But now I no longer feel guilty about it. I am finally happy with my place in the universe.
I wish I had a road map others could follow but I don't think there is one. Maybe "prove all things, hold fast to that which is true" is the closest I can come except instead of some institution telling me what that means, I get to decide what the "truth" is for myself. At least that way if I ever had to stand before my maker and explain myself I can (rather than having to say "I did it because they told me to do it").
I hear you! I found myself back where I started too searching but knowing my heart was always after wanting to know
and be accepted by God(in my case Trinity because I believe Jesus IS God) however because of some abuse early in
on life I found Church difficult even at 7yrs old.
So twi "seemed like" the perfect thing for me(the "people were fantastic"!)where I was in twig...but as years past it just
didn't cut it,found it was a company and was not for me and what I wanted(with was the Truth of Gods word not 1/2 true)
After I went to alot of Churches in the beginning(mostly cause my children were little)and Therapy!
Relearning the bible with a BIG ERASER......I enjoy being with God in Nature as my Church. Back Yard suites me fine.
It helps to come here too and glad it is available for everyone including family memeber.
I have changed but I still think about this everyday.
Dear Cheranne,
As always I enjoyed the song and the slide show. Didn't you do that one before? T's o.k., I enjoyed it either way.
And if Jesus Christ is your Lord that is good enough for me. Even with other views that might be a little different I just usually don't see any point of making a fuss over the differences.
As always I enjoyed the song and the slide show. Didn't you do that one before? T's o.k., I enjoyed it either way.
And if Jesus Christ is your Lord that is good enough for me. Even with other views that might be a little different I just usually don't see any point of making a fuss over the differences.
(edited for spelling)
Thanks Jeff. yea I did those music slides before but I send them out to remind people of cult awareness(I am not doing anymore that is enough)but pass them on if you like there are NEW people coming out of twi all the time even if they
have been OUT for years(inside they may still be in that steel cage in there mind)
I feel whatever you believe in if should be TRUE even if if is worshiping trees and smoking monkeys toesnails(don't need
artificial trees and fake monkey press on nails!!!! If you get my sarcism!!!
Meaning the Root of the Way Tree is built by one decietful person who used people and wiped his a$$cets with our blood
Thanks Jeff. yea I did those music slides before but I send them out to remind people of cult awareness(I am not doing anymore that is enough)but pass them on if you like there are NEW people coming out of twi all the time even if they
have been OUT for years(inside they may still be in that steel cage in there mind)
I feel whatever you believe in if should be TRUE even if if is worshiping trees and smoking monkeys toesnails(don't need
artificial trees and fake monkey press on nails!!!! If you get my sarcism!!!
Meaning the Root of the Way Tree is built by one decietful person who used people and wiped his a$$cets with our blood
bought lives with his sewer filled heart !
Dear Cheranne,
Since I hear concern for what is a real and genuine problem for people in your intentions it seems to me that to simply argue about non-related differences we have as the "Trinity" would only lack love and wisdom. And that is why I tend to reject folks that even though they may think like I do in regards to that one doctrinal point they at times have only seemed to be divisive and contrary to the real needs that I perceive here at the Greasespot.
Since I hear concern for what is a real and genuine problem for people in your intentions it seems to me that to simply argue about non-related differences we have as the "Trinity" would only lack love and wisdom. And that is why I tend to reject folks that even though they may think like I do in regards to that one doctrinal point they at times have only seemed to be divisive and contrary to the real needs that I perceive here at the Greasespot.
As long as everyone speaks there mind"freely" that is cool. Letting people voice there opinions(no matter what they are)
I sure am not here to argue with people I don't have time for that,but what may have hindered growth because of cult
I guess for me it is easy to admit that I really like your intentions. And I've enjoyed your posts too.
But lately I've been noticing how sometimes a wayfer or ex-wayfer will bring up the trinity issue. And I think that when it is done in a pointlessly divisive manner like many learned in TWI IMO it seems to me that reasong with them about what they are doing is just as necessary as reasoning with anyone else who may be elevating what they think they know over love and goodwill.
But it really, really irks me when I think of all the people who were sucked into the "Wayworld" of Wierwille's only to be abused and ruined. And when I hear people still aggressively promoting their TWI beliefs I sometimes wonder if they will ever give pause to consider that the manner in which they promote their supposed knowledge has led many people to TWI only to have their lives wrecked.
I agree with highway about every person seeking their own unique path, at least that is how it has been for spouse and I.
What will work for one will not necessarily be the path for another.
I had to start all over again with a new foundation....I couldn`t handle any more scriptural study, I knew that they could be made to say whatever the person in charge wanted to. I wasn`t interested in truth or doctrine, as far as I could tell none of it really mattered in what my daily personal responsibility was.
What an incredibly freeing idea. Not needing to know who was right or where I should be serving or was I on the right path...etc.
Whichever direction I choose to go in, it seems that God is there working within whatever the parameters that am willing to allow.
The best road is going to be different for each individual.
Maybe sounding like you "just walked out of a twig 20 minutes ago" is the best road for some people, maybe the best road for others is throwing out every scrap of information learned in The Way and starting completely over. Of course the path one takes will most likely look like the best path, while others look pretty darn stupid! No one is forcing me to go to church (although Geisha thinks I'm going to Hell )or read the collaterals (Mike has suggested it though) and I'm not telling anyone to follow a pagan path (Happy Litha <Summer Solstice> everybody )
My path to recovery, the one that is unique to me, started when the first lawsuit was announced. That inspired me to examine Martindale's teachings until I concluded that they were not compatible with what Wierwille taught or with what I discovered myself using PFAL "research keys". Eventually I concluded that Wierwille's stuff didn't hold up to biblical scrutiny very well either. The realization that several offshoots were teaching wildly different things, all using PFAL keys to researching the bible, led me to believe that there wasn't just one way to "rightly divide". The plethora of beliefs outside of TWI, all using the same bible, and the variety of other religions, all claiming to be the true, divinely inspired WAY, inspired me to back off and seek the path the resonated most with me. It's a non-Christian path to me sure, but most who know me would not disagree that I'm a better person these days then I was when in TWI.
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JeffSjo
Mostly I feel o.k., but sometimes I still don't feel comfortable in my own skin, but I may be starting to feel comfortable with myself.
Have I changed, boy I hope so!
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T-Bone
Very thought provoking post, Cheranne! For me what has helped a lot has been coming to Grease Spot. Just getting a sense of what others have experienced is illuminating. It does a lot to validate some thoughts I’ve had – which builds self-confidence I guess….
Tonto & I have gone through spells of church shopping – but don’t belong to one and haven’t gone to a church in a long time. I think part of me is just so burned out with the whole organized religion thing….still read the Bible…still pray…still try to live an honest decent life and be good to my fellowman.
Not really sure about a personality change – since coming out from under TWI’s shadow, I figure my personality has always been there – just greatly suppressed while I was in.
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cheranne
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cheranne
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excathedra
hi cher
don't do church, never will
still believe in god and christ, but i did already
i think personality here might have had a stunt growth, but i hope i'm more me every day
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cheranne
I feel the same way too. Thanks for sharing
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TheHighWay
Funny you should mention that just now... I recently got back in touch with a bunch of new/old friends on the waycorps site and I'm just amazed at how many of them haven't associated with twi for YEARS but sound like they just walked out of a twi fellowship twenty minutes ago. It makes me wonder why they bothered leaving the organization at all because they certainly didn't clear their minds afterwards!
Anyway... before I joined twi I had gotten to the point that I thought each individual person had to find their own way to understand the universe and commune with God, but having been raised in the church I felt really, really, really guilty about it. That's why I was so primed for something like twi... they were different but organized; exactly what I thought I was looking for.
When I left twi I tried going to church (lots of different churches in fact) but couldn't stand it.
And now, nearly ten years later, I find I am back where I was at the beginning: thinking each person needs to find their own spirituality and express it in their own way. But now I no longer feel guilty about it. I am finally happy with my place in the universe.
I wish I had a road map others could follow but I don't think there is one. Maybe "prove all things, hold fast to that which is true" is the closest I can come except instead of some institution telling me what that means, I get to decide what the "truth" is for myself. At least that way if I ever had to stand before my maker and explain myself I can (rather than having to say "I did it because they told me to do it").
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cheranne
I hear you! I found myself back where I started too searching but knowing my heart was always after wanting to know
and be accepted by God(in my case Trinity because I believe Jesus IS God) however because of some abuse early in
on life I found Church difficult even at 7yrs old.
So twi "seemed like" the perfect thing for me(the "people were fantastic"!)where I was in twig...but as years past it just
didn't cut it,found it was a company and was not for me and what I wanted(with was the Truth of Gods word not 1/2 true)
After I went to alot of Churches in the beginning(mostly cause my children were little)and Therapy!
Relearning the bible with a BIG ERASER......I enjoy being with God in Nature as my Church. Back Yard suites me fine.
It helps to come here too and glad it is available for everyone including family memeber.
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JeffSjo
Dear Cheranne,
As always I enjoyed the song and the slide show. Didn't you do that one before? T's o.k., I enjoyed it either way.
And if Jesus Christ is your Lord that is good enough for me. Even with other views that might be a little different I just usually don't see any point of making a fuss over the differences.
(edited for spelling)
Edited by JeffSjoLink to comment
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cheranne
Thanks Jeff. yea I did those music slides before but I send them out to remind people of cult awareness(I am not doing anymore that is enough)but pass them on if you like there are NEW people coming out of twi all the time even if they
have been OUT for years(inside they may still be in that steel cage in there mind)
I feel whatever you believe in if should be TRUE even if if is worshiping trees and smoking monkeys toesnails(don't need
artificial trees and fake monkey press on nails!!!! If you get my sarcism!!!
Meaning the Root of the Way Tree is built by one decietful person who used people and wiped his a$$cets with our blood
bought lives with his sewer filled heart !
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JeffSjo
Dear Cheranne,
Since I hear concern for what is a real and genuine problem for people in your intentions it seems to me that to simply argue about non-related differences we have as the "Trinity" would only lack love and wisdom. And that is why I tend to reject folks that even though they may think like I do in regards to that one doctrinal point they at times have only seemed to be divisive and contrary to the real needs that I perceive here at the Greasespot.
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cheranne
As long as everyone speaks there mind"freely" that is cool. Letting people voice there opinions(no matter what they are)
I sure am not here to argue with people I don't have time for that,but what may have hindered growth because of cult
life is what I am saying to express.
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JeffSjo
I guess for me it is easy to admit that I really like your intentions. And I've enjoyed your posts too.
But lately I've been noticing how sometimes a wayfer or ex-wayfer will bring up the trinity issue. And I think that when it is done in a pointlessly divisive manner like many learned in TWI IMO it seems to me that reasong with them about what they are doing is just as necessary as reasoning with anyone else who may be elevating what they think they know over love and goodwill.
But it really, really irks me when I think of all the people who were sucked into the "Wayworld" of Wierwille's only to be abused and ruined. And when I hear people still aggressively promoting their TWI beliefs I sometimes wonder if they will ever give pause to consider that the manner in which they promote their supposed knowledge has led many people to TWI only to have their lives wrecked.
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WordWolf
The Trinity issue can be handled 2 ways, as I've seen it.
A) Inclusionary.
So long as both sides call Jesus their Lord, believe he is THE Son of God (not a son of God, but unique),
THE Messiah/Christ (God's Anointed, appointed to be THE one and only Savior of the world),
and believe Jesus resurrected, ascended, and is current at the right hand of The Father,
then the rest is details God will sort out at the proper time.
B) Exclusionary.
My side is the correct one. Anyone who takes the other side (or any other position, like
"Jesus was a wise teacher", "Jesus was a legend to provide good morals", "Jesus was insane")
is not saved, and walks in darkness. This is not up for discussion- We Are Right.
I'm comfortable hanging out with people in the first category. With people in the second category,
I always have to watch out for the knife that could end up in my back.
====================
Frankly,
you could take ANY doctrine among Christians where there's sizeable numbers of people on both sides,
and choose up sides like that, resulting in people who declare those on the other side aren't "real" Christians.
twi is very experienced with doing that- almost every doctrine where twi claims to be different is seen as
some sort of "deal breaker" where the other side isn't "real" Christians.
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cheranne
I feel whatever you believe in if should be TRUE even if if is worshiping trees and smoking monkeys toesnails(don't need
artificial trees and fake monkey press on nails!!!! If you get my sarcism!!!
Meaning the Root of the Way Tree is built by one decietful person who used people and wiped his a$$cets with our blood
bought lives with his sewer filled heart !
I am saying our growth stoppped at (whatever twi said was so)regardless of broken relationanships,abuse or
so forth we I felt were only allowed to be what we were according to twi or we were to be shunned basically.
We were Used.
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cheranne
Pigeons poop all you want "Go for it!"
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rascal
I agree with highway about every person seeking their own unique path, at least that is how it has been for spouse and I.
What will work for one will not necessarily be the path for another.
I had to start all over again with a new foundation....I couldn`t handle any more scriptural study, I knew that they could be made to say whatever the person in charge wanted to. I wasn`t interested in truth or doctrine, as far as I could tell none of it really mattered in what my daily personal responsibility was.
What an incredibly freeing idea. Not needing to know who was right or where I should be serving or was I on the right path...etc.
Whichever direction I choose to go in, it seems that God is there working within whatever the parameters that am willing to allow.
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waysider
Wasn't it Wierwille who claimed there was a devil spirit lurking behind every statue?
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Oakspear
The best road is going to be different for each individual.
Maybe sounding like you "just walked out of a twig 20 minutes ago" is the best road for some people, maybe the best road for others is throwing out every scrap of information learned in The Way and starting completely over. Of course the path one takes will most likely look like the best path, while others look pretty darn stupid! No one is forcing me to go to church (although Geisha thinks I'm going to Hell
)or read the collaterals (Mike has suggested it though) and I'm not telling anyone to follow a pagan path (Happy Litha <Summer Solstice> everybody 
)
My path to recovery, the one that is unique to me, started when the first lawsuit was announced. That inspired me to examine Martindale's teachings until I concluded that they were not compatible with what Wierwille taught or with what I discovered myself using PFAL "research keys". Eventually I concluded that Wierwille's stuff didn't hold up to biblical scrutiny very well either. The realization that several offshoots were teaching wildly different things, all using PFAL keys to researching the bible, led me to believe that there wasn't just one way to "rightly divide". The plethora of beliefs outside of TWI, all using the same bible, and the variety of other religions, all claiming to be the true, divinely inspired WAY, inspired me to back off and seek the path the resonated most with me. It's a non-Christian path to me sure, but most who know me would not disagree that I'm a better person these days then I was when in TWI.
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geisha779
Well, you have to admit. . . you dooooo know how to dress for it.
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Oakspear
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